I have $1500 in my quad turbo setup and about 10 hours of fabrication time. That is every last piece, fittings included.
That is quite a bit less than JUST the actual blower from any supercharger kit.
You can get an intercooler and enough piping to mount it on the back bumper for $200. It doesn't cost money to mount it, just ingenuity.
The guy said he can weld. $150 in piping and $50-100 in flanges is enough to do a hotside.


Turbo lag is a thing of the 80s. Turbochargers produce SIGNIFICANTLY more low/mid power than a centrifugal supercharger.
The vast majority of OEM forced induction setups are turbochargers for so so many reasons.

A complete procharger kit is $5k+ where-as an 800 HP capable turbo setup can be produced for as little as $800 (yes, I've done it multiple times).
Does it require a little time welding some piping bends together? Yes. It will be much easier and simple to install a supercharger.

You need to decide where you want to draw the line between budget/time/power.

 

I'm gonna be the honest guy here. Based on your questions, doing this yourself is beyond your abilities to do it within your budget. Heck, it's unlikely you'd be able to do it within your budget anyways if you're wanting it to be reliable, still work like stock, etc. There's a reason people buy newer cars vs just throwing a turbo on an old one.

Your best bet is to just leave it alone and accept it for what it is, not that fast. Take the $5k, put it into paint, and enjoy the car. If you save up another $10k or so, maybe see about trading up to a C6 that will do it out of the box.

We can talk about doing cheap turbos or LS swapping it until we're blue in the face, but that's not your skillset. You asked what the difference between a turbocharger and a supercharger is.

So as I see it, you've got two options. Pay someone to modify your car (expect the $5k budget to not get you very far), or accept it for what it is. Sorry to be harsh, and somewhat of a buzzkill, but there's no shortage of guys out there who got themselves halfway into a project they couldn't finish, or didn't do things right and ended up with a broken hunk of junk after they're done.

 

No offense to the OP since we all have to start somewhere and sometime but if he doesn't know the difference between a supercharger and a turbocharger, it raises a couple questions. Are YOU going to be doing it for him and how much would you charge? Do YOU honestly think he is going to do it in 20 hours without to many "do overs"? "I can weld" is a lot different from "I can fabricate". I bought a kit for my Merkur XR4Ti and it took several hours for a first time install, learning as you go along.

 

Or take the $15K, sell the C4 and buy a C6.

 

Nobody has EVER done something without having had to do it a first time.
The reason that the C4 section here doesn't have a Forced Induction section has a lot less to do with the cars than the owners. If the owners ever had a positive mindset towards it, there would be so so many more products available for the cars, from complete kits, better tuning solutions, more affordable/available differential upgrades, etc.

A quick google search can teach you the difference between a turbo and a supercharger.
Those 5 minutes won't make anyone more/less qualified to fabricate a turbo setup. The ability to weld is 75% of the battle there.

 

Joi pointed out something very correct here, the C4 engine bay is surprisingly tight. If you look at the B2K cars, they've moved a lot of stuff! Think about where the turbo will go, if it goes in the engine bay you either have to combine the exhaust manifolds in the engine bay prior to the turbo, or you bring a pipe up from under the car to feed the single tube exhaust into the turbo. Then you still have to exhaust the turbo! Depending on how ratty you want to do it, that means either running another exhaust pipe down back tot he stock exhaust, or potentially dumping it out the fender (and it looking ratty AF). Now we have to find a spot for an intercooler, the B2K put it to the sides of the intake manifold, but on a stock car that's not gonna be much of an intercooler if it's air to air. So we can either put it somewhere up front, or make it water to air. If we go water to air, now we need a bigger radiator and we'll want a surge tank that we can dump ice in, and we probably need a better flowing water pump. Then we need to connect it all up, fabbing up some pipes, that's likely the easiest part of the job compared to fabbing mounts and everything else. Now we need to tune it, which is more an exercise in finding someone who will tune it, because we likely don't have that skillset. Certainly it's doable, and we could maybe even go with a standalone, but then we'll likely lose some of our features inside the car.

I'm not going to sit here and say it can't be done, it definitely can, if you have the required skills, the time, and the patience. But reality of it is, most people don't. Most people on here think that having to replace an Optispark is a "sell the car at a huge loss" sort of ordeal. You think they're going to fab up a custom turbo kit?

I stand by my advice, fix the car up as you can, and accept the performance it has currently. If you really want to spend a little money on it to go faster, get some better heads, a cam, longtubes, and a tune. You'll feel the difference, but you're not going to be outrunning any Demons any time soon. It's still more cost effective to just clean this car up, and when time or funds allow, buy a newer car that's faster.

 

I've had a couple of classes at the Vo Tech kollege myself. While that was 20 plus years ago, I can re-read the stuff up and probably weld well enough to pass the class today with a little practice. I hardly think that would be 75% of the fabrication battle. More like 5%. After that, there is a lot of imagination that will go into the job. IMO, you will find many welders that call themselves fabricators but I haven't found a fabricator that will call himself a welder. If you laid out the plans with proper diagrams, I probably could do a passable job. For me to take a project and design a solution in my garage? No thanks. I'll pay someone with the facilities and the talent. I'm smart enough not to take a "Black Hole" project.

 

You spend a whole lot of time trying to underestimate a job and claim it is easy. I do this all the time and I can tell you the average person cannot get this job done, and based on the questions the OP asked he has no fabricating skills and this will turn out like the thousands of other half finished dead projects.

As far as turbo lag you again downplay the effect. You will have turbo lag on any turbo car when nailing the throttle at low RPM with no built up boost, it is a reality. That is why on the peformance cars GM and Ford and Dodge all use screw type supercharges, instant boost at any RPM and feels smooth like an NA car. Then combine with the fact that there is no room in the C4 engine bay, and you mention installing the turbo near the rear of the car, it will work but there will be lag.

Please present the whole story without bias so people can make informed decisions that make the most sense to them.

 

I understand where all of you are coming from. As a few have mentioned we all have to start somewhere. Do I have experience in putting a turbo in. Have I ever done it answer is no. Have I done basic work on cars the answer is yes. I been working on cars since i was 14. Which is all your basic brake changing tuning plugs ,wires, distributor cap and rotor, oil changes etc I've even done head gaskets before.

I came to this forum to ask questions about my c4 because I do not know much about the performance side on it. I plan to keep this car for life. I love older car and have always been a dream to own one. I had the opportunity and so I took it.

as I said before for the year and the previous owner this car is in good shape. I do have some minor work to do to it. I do have hesitation an idling problems.

I would like to get this car back the way it used to be. In the process of doing this I do have a antifreeze leak between the head and block. Is it bad? No it is not so has not been a concern of mine right now. Sooner or later I will have to deal with it. Which will mean tearing the engine down.

when tearing the engine down to change the head gasket since I am there why not do the block as well new pistons, rods etc...even bore it out. Since then I have to put it back together why not see what I can do to be able to get a little more umph out of it. An would it work. There is nothing like going through the motions and get no results.

if I was to take my engine somewhere to get overhauled it would cost me about $2,000. Why not at the same time put a different camshaft in it better pistons in it bore it out put better head on it. it would still cost me maybe $2,500.

I hope you guys are understanding where I am coming from here. I will be taking most of your guys's advice when it comes to restoring and putting a little more back into the car. I believe putting the turbo on it will give me that umph I am looking for. That on demand when I want it and not just a consistent power. When redoing this over I want to keep it for the cruising around and have that on demand power when I want to open her up a bit.


when it came to asking the question about a turbo or a supercharger I am not used to working with a turbo or supercharger. Which is why I asked the question which I appreciated the reply in return.

Again thank you all for your replies I appreciate it.

 

If you are going that far, might as well rebuild it as a 383. It will give you some potential improve later, change the intake and exhaust headers.

 

Very, very few people could pull this off in 10 hours. I'm not saying you didn't but most can't, including most professionals. I have fabrication skills and tools and I could do it, but no way I could do it in 10 hours. I estimate it would take me 100 hours in my garage. I could probably cut that to 40 hours in a professional shop with a lift and the ability to call over an extra pair of hands from the bay next to me for the times it really helps, but it would still be a good 40 hours for me even there. It would take me 5 hours just to measure it, design it up on paper, research and order all the parts.

Time is money, so when comparing costs figure out how much your time is worth. I know that can vary, but for most of us, the time you are going to put into it is going to raise the cost to well beyond what a supercharger will cost and that is even if you have the tools available and on hand,.

Given that it is not realistic to present a turbo as a cost effective option for most people.

 

Thank you

 

I never said I do not have the skills to fabricate something.. The problem is I never done it. So there are a lot of questions and concerns

Also just because someone asked what might seem to be a silly question makes him unqualified? It's better to ask questions then it is not to. Just because what seems to be a stupid question dosen't make that person stupid or unqualified..

in my opinion I have to determine what in the long run will be better suited for my situation and what I am looking for. The supercharger is the better option because it will give consistent power at whatever rpm . With that being said in my situation I am not looking for consistent power all the time. But looking for it on demand when I want it. The turbo will line up with it.

I could also get pretty wild and do twin turbo which can be done. Anything is possible when you have a will you will find a way.

I am not looking for craziness of the top power. Which is why I would not go for the twin turbo. since sooner or later I will have to do a head gasket I want to see what my option should be to get little more umph since I will be there anyways.

In my opinion it makes sense to overhaul the engine make it a 383. Put upgraded camshaft pistons and better heads on it. While in process of doing that also put the turbo on. This in the long run will give me the extra umph I am looking for. And pretty much a brand new car. It will be stock with some upgrades.

Maybe even be worth something down the line. I have read articles says c4 are starting to come back. So who knows what will happen in the future. All I know is I do not look to sell my c4 anytime soon.

 

And maybe you do have a flare for it, maybe you don't. But as a first project, it might not be good to cut your teeth, so to speak on this. A lot of us have seen projects like this where a lot of fabrication was needed and after a bit, the project was abandoned. So all anyone is saying is "Baby Steps" till you learn to walk, then run.

Not that it is a silly question but rather more of a warning that if you haven't attempted something remotely similar on an easier level, it might be less discouraging to start smaller than this.

Time and money are what decides what happens. It always does.

True. As to whether the ROI is there, well.....

On the one hand, you claim you are not after crazy power. OTOH, you seem to think you want a 383 with forced induction. A 383 crate motor will eat up your $8000 budget and we haven't talked tuning, headers, injectors, intake and other misc stuff. Throw in a turbo and your budget goes out the window. Again, how big a dent are you trying to make on the dyno sheet?

If you aren't selling it, whatever the price it goes up to or down to doesn't matter, does it?

 

I agree. I'm in the middle (well, hopefully 2/3 done now) of fabricating a turbo system for my 85. It's no small task, not for the faint of heart. There is a ton of fabrication involved. It isn't a 10 hour project. The fact is, GM put a lot of stuff in a very small space, the motor essentially is in the middle of the front suspension.

Everything on mine absolutely must fit under the factory hood which makes the task that much more daunting. (Callaway had some seriously talented people on the B2K project, much more talented than myself. I've gained some serious respect for their accomplishment.) I am also keeping the AC and every other feature that GM had in this car from the factory. Many things had to be moved and new mounts for things like the alternator had to be hand made. I also had to find a smaller alternator to fit the turbocharger. I'm not even started on the intercooler and intake piping.

Then there's the small matter of tuning. I have a Holley HP system (easily $3,200) controlling the fuel and spark, which makes tuning relatively "easy" and I'm still going to let TPIS do the final tune on a dyno as that's a good way to blow the motor up if I screw up doing it myself. There goes another $200-$600 right there. I haven't totaled up the total cost (not including my labor) but I'd guess that I have easily over $1,500 in the turbocharger "kit" by itself. The additional power also requires a better clutch, $300 in parts alone.

I still advise the OP to purchase an off the shelf centrifugal supercharger kit if they are dead set on forced induction.

 

100 hours for turbo fabrication? I don't even think I have that much time in my whole car.
Cutting the flanges off the stock manifolds and using them as the basis saves a HUGE amount of time.
From there it is a matter of welding ~3 bends on each manifold. Go the easy route and merge them together into a single 3" piece of pipe (doesn't have to be a symmetric 2 into 1 by ANY means) and use a 3" to T4 transition flange to safe all of that extra time trying to form 1 piece of tubing or even the 2-1 merge onto a flange. Bolt on the turbo, and the downpipe is usually 3-5 bends to get it to the bottom of the car where an exhaust can be added. Pick a spot for a wastegate, use a hole saw on the drill to cut the hole for the flange. Weld an oil return fitting onto either the pan or timing cover, or if you don't want to drop the pan or timing cover, cover a drill bit in grease and drill a hole, and then use a threaded fitting.

100 hours seems pretty far-fetched. Guys building huge elaborate twin setups for exotic cars that demand perfect TIG welds and precision fit-ups don't spend 100 hours on them.

 

There is a Callaway C4 twin turbo setup for sale on Facebook for like $2500. Includes everything, even intake manifold.

 

Callaway did do the 88 vette. I thought that was a sweet setup but to start from scratch would be crazy money and time.

There is a lot which I have to decide to do. especially if it is even worth it as well.


This surely is not a project I don't plan to do in one year.. But in fact take many years to do it. Unless I can find someone whom is willing to help more then charge I might not do anything.. I might just do the overhaul of engine and transmission and that's all.

Thank you all for the comments and information I really appreciate it. I got a lot to decide I am hoping if I have any question I can come speak with you guys thanks!!!

 

You're leaving put one very important detail about your "10 hour" quad turbo build: if I'm not mistaken, isn't that on your cart? (Which is very cool, by the way) You don't have the hood or fender wells in your way.
I'm pretty sure the frame on the B2K had to be modified to fit those turbochargers. Yet again, something would have to be modified to fit that "kit"

 

Money guides the project. At current rates, you have $8000 to work with. Do you want to build a "claimer" engine or do you want something that will allow you to stomp on it day in, day out with impunity? Is $8000 everything including the upgraded parts behind the motor to deal with the added power or is there a separate budget (better shafts, performance rebuilt 700R4, D44 if you have auto)? IF you are willing to settle for 400 RWHP, it is possible to get a NA 383 to do that especially if you shop around for used intakes and headers. Again, we haven't talked of the upgraded drivetrain so that could increase the cost.

Bottom line, you got to pay if you want to play. IF you aren't willing to pay that much, walk before you sink money into a half-assed creation you will be disappointed with.