Why's my SuperRam so slow?
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 81,241
Likes: 3,063
From: altered state
St. Jude Donor '05
If hes coming back to Ca theres no such thing as a friendly smog tech anymore.
Once here he will have to have it inspected by DMV and a test only station nothing gets past them.
His cam/superram are good for now...his Cats will have to have the Ca EO# stamped on them too. Same as other cats but that stamp makes them $$. They are that strict!
Their machines dont know CI though....x2 on good #s without making the port big is where its at on a street car. The "hogging out" concept is 80s thinking.
Once here he will have to have it inspected by DMV and a test only station nothing gets past them.
His cam/superram are good for now...his Cats will have to have the Ca EO# stamped on them too. Same as other cats but that stamp makes them $$. They are that strict!
Their machines dont know CI though....x2 on good #s without making the port big is where its at on a street car. The "hogging out" concept is 80s thinking.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,426
Likes: 46
From: Lynchburg, VA
This isn't what you asked, but I'm going to suggest that you strongly consider contacting Greg Good in the Houston area. He's the one who did my heads a billion years ago. He is a absolute wizard at getting crazy flow numbers out of the smallest ports possible: he worships at the alter of high port velocity. If you look at the low-lift flow numbers I posted earlier, you can see that. And that also happens also work well for a true street motor that has to pass emissions. I know Lloyd Elliot is the go-to guru on this forum, but I'm just saying look at the numbers. It's night-and-day. I have absolutely no idea if Greg would be able or willing to work on SBC heads these days: he's heavily into LS and new-LT stuff, but I've also seen Viper heads and other things on his FB page. Also, it may literally be more cost-effective these days to just buy AFR 195 Comps, which flow similar to what my ported stock heads did. I really don't know.
PS - Yeah, you really need to figure out what's going on with that #1 cylinder! Something's wrong there.
PS - Yeah, you really need to figure out what's going on with that #1 cylinder! Something's wrong there.
Well, have fun with them, certainly. But I don't think you really need them. They were invented back when vacuum ran all the accessories on the car - windshield wipers, A/C, etc. and guys would put giant cams in their cars and then the windshield wipers wouldn't work, so the Rhodes lifters were a band-aid for that. But who knows, you may pick the right cam. Personally, once you get your engine purring, I'd look more at some of the cams the other guys on this thread have been suggesting. They're a lot better suited to that intake.
Having said that, you DO have a manual car. Driveability with a 230/236 cam will not be a problem. (Fuel mileage, on the other hand...) If you want a high revving engine, you'd be better off blueprinting the engine - matching all the components to each other instead of using band-aids to make a high revving cam work with a torquer manifold.
Example: I bought a C5 that the guy had slapped a ginormous cam into an otherwise stock engine (234/246 on a 112 lsa). Just by having the heads ported and bumping compression form 10.5 to 11.5, I saw a gain of 30 peak hp and a 100 ft/lb gain in torque at 3500 rpm. Don't discount matching the compression to your cam.
Having said that, you DO have a manual car. Driveability with a 230/236 cam will not be a problem. (Fuel mileage, on the other hand...) If you want a high revving engine, you'd be better off blueprinting the engine - matching all the components to each other instead of using band-aids to make a high revving cam work with a torquer manifold.
Example: I bought a C5 that the guy had slapped a ginormous cam into an otherwise stock engine (234/246 on a 112 lsa). Just by having the heads ported and bumping compression form 10.5 to 11.5, I saw a gain of 30 peak hp and a 100 ft/lb gain in torque at 3500 rpm. Don't discount matching the compression to your cam.
I was just really hoping to save some cash by using the cam I have on hand. You're probably right though. I'll probably end up looking for something in the 220/230 range with maybe a 110 lsa. Definitely not looking for a high-revver!
That's a crazy gain. Is it possible that was mostly from the porting?
In CARB-land, anything that's legal on a newer car, is legal on an older car, even if it's not original equipment. At least it used to be. I used to have a book written by a guy who made a living swapping V8's into cars with 4's and 6's. He was able to do that because he was putting bone stock V8's into S-10 pickups. I don't know what they've changed in the last few years, but since dual cats are legal on a C7 ZR1, you should be able to swap them onto your car.
If hes coming back to Ca theres no such thing as a friendly smog tech anymore.
Once here he will have to have it inspected by DMV and a test only station nothing gets past them.
His cam/superram are good for now...his Cats will have to have the Ca EO# stamped on them too. Same as other cats but that stamp makes them $$. They are that strict!
Their machines dont know CI though....x2 on good #s without making the port big is where its at on a street car. The "hogging out" concept is 80s thinking.
Once here he will have to have it inspected by DMV and a test only station nothing gets past them.
His cam/superram are good for now...his Cats will have to have the Ca EO# stamped on them too. Same as other cats but that stamp makes them $$. They are that strict!
Their machines dont know CI though....x2 on good #s without making the port big is where its at on a street car. The "hogging out" concept is 80s thinking.
Last edited by C4ProjectCar; Aug 14, 2020 at 07:34 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 81,241
Likes: 3,063
From: altered state
St. Jude Donor '05
The 88 I just bought is stone stock and barely passed by a hair. They are tightening the limits up so bad they almost have to be better than new it seems. Ca wants all the 70s-90s cars gone...even a 50 yr old car gets the registration increased rather than going down like it used to
10 yrs ago my Elcos tags were around 50...now 197
Its the land of good weather and lots of fine women though.
Never used the Rhoads roller lifters but loved their old flat tappet lifters they tamed a big cam down once the oil got hot and did their job upstairs, going from std to them was noticeable.
10 yrs ago my Elcos tags were around 50...now 197
Its the land of good weather and lots of fine women though.
Never used the Rhoads roller lifters but loved their old flat tappet lifters they tamed a big cam down once the oil got hot and did their job upstairs, going from std to them was noticeable.
Last edited by cv67; Aug 14, 2020 at 08:26 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,775
Likes: 585
From: Texas
No, the top end gain was from the porting, but the midrange torque was all from the compression bump. Whatever cam you do end up with, run whatever compression the manufacturer recommends. It makes a YUGE difference, especially down low.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 6,192
Likes: 750
From: near the thumb in the mitten
If you're not a.member of the local corvette club I would join it. Corvette clubs normally are sponsored by dealet. It possible you may meet someone more knowledgeable and get access to a few diagnostic tools to test injectors, sun scope, leak down and compression testers.
Leakdown, compression, power balance, running compression should indicate the soundness.of engine.
Wallace Racing has calculators you can plug in all your drag strip data for calculated hp.
Unless a tuner shop is having dyno day.you want to sort out the cool cylinder first. No need to dyno with a known problem.
Leakdown, compression, power balance, running compression should indicate the soundness.of engine.
Wallace Racing has calculators you can plug in all your drag strip data for calculated hp.
Unless a tuner shop is having dyno day.you want to sort out the cool cylinder first. No need to dyno with a known problem.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,426
Likes: 46
From: Lynchburg, VA
The 88 I just bought is stone stock and barely passed by a hair. They are tightening the limits up so bad they almost have to be better than new it seems. Ca wants all the 70s-90s cars gone...even a 50 yr old car gets the registration increased rather than going down like it used to
10 yrs ago my Elcos tags were around 50...now 197
Its the land of good weather and lots of fine women though.
Never used the Rhoads roller lifters but loved their old flat tappet lifters they tamed a big cam down once the oil got hot and did their job upstairs, going from std to them was noticeable.
10 yrs ago my Elcos tags were around 50...now 197
Its the land of good weather and lots of fine women though.
Never used the Rhoads roller lifters but loved their old flat tappet lifters they tamed a big cam down once the oil got hot and did their job upstairs, going from std to them was noticeable.
Thanks for the feedback on the Rhoads.
If you're not a.member of the local corvette club I would join it. Corvette clubs normally are sponsored by dealet. It possible you may meet someone more knowledgeable and get access to a few diagnostic tools to test injectors, sun scope, leak down and compression testers.
Leakdown, compression, power balance, running compression should indicate the soundness.of engine.
Wallace Racing has calculators you can plug in all your drag strip data for calculated hp.
Unless a tuner shop is having dyno day.you want to sort out the cool cylinder first. No need to dyno with a known problem.
Leakdown, compression, power balance, running compression should indicate the soundness.of engine.
Wallace Racing has calculators you can plug in all your drag strip data for calculated hp.
Unless a tuner shop is having dyno day.you want to sort out the cool cylinder first. No need to dyno with a known problem.
I've got a buddy with a leakdown tester that I plan to borrow as soon as he gets back in town. Forged pistons + headers is just such an annoying combo because it needs to be hot to leakdown/compression test, but there's no way of getting to the plugs without bumping up against the headers.
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Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,426
Likes: 46
From: Lynchburg, VA
I *think* my buddy's got one of those. It's the getting the spark plug out and that in with a burning hot header 2" away that's difficult.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 21,543
Likes: 3,216
From: Park City Utah
60 ft or holeshot is about how well you can drive a manual from a stop. The cars making power you need to concentrate on 60. Work on your launch technique a get a friend to video from outside the car to analyze what suspension is doing. New soft compound tires. 84 (either) rear spring, heim jointed rear control arms. Adjustable shocks, More gear 3.73-4.10, line lock (so you won't need to deal with brake pedal). All are things to consider.
The 104-106 mph tells me that he's got ~300 NET chp. Maybe a tad more but not much.
I wonder if his cam timing is off?
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,426
Likes: 46
From: Lynchburg, VA
I just did a test drive so I could re-measure primary temps hot. Didn't mess around with the wires or do any diagnosis because... I didn't feel like it. Maybe tomorrow.
I measured twice. The first time was pretty soon after a pull (~3min), and the second was a bit longer (~5-10min).
200 (1) (2) 260
340 (3) (4) 290
300 (5) (6) 300
270 (7) (8) 240
160 (1) (2) 250
280 (3) (4) 220
280 (5) (6) 240
260 (7) (8) 240
And my original, idle results:
160°C (1) (2) 280°C
285°C (3) (4) 240°C
250°C (5) (6) 290°C
245°C (7) (8) 230°C
I'm not 100% convinced there's an issue. The sooner I take the measurement after a pull, the less the differential between #1 and #2. It could just be that the alt fan is blowing enough air to cool the #1 primary down. I'll still swap the plug wire with a different cylinder to see what happens, but I'm not sure how much farther than that I want to go. Since the odd bank seems to be running richer than the even bank, the only malfunction that would make sense is a stuck open injector. The last time I had the intake off was to check for exactly that, and none of the injectors leaked fuel when I primed the pump. I suppose it could just flow a ton more than my other injectors, but I'd like to think Accel/Holley has better QC standards than that.
I measured twice. The first time was pretty soon after a pull (~3min), and the second was a bit longer (~5-10min).
200 (1) (2) 260
340 (3) (4) 290
300 (5) (6) 300
270 (7) (8) 240
160 (1) (2) 250
280 (3) (4) 220
280 (5) (6) 240
260 (7) (8) 240
And my original, idle results:
160°C (1) (2) 280°C
285°C (3) (4) 240°C
250°C (5) (6) 290°C
245°C (7) (8) 230°C
I'm not 100% convinced there's an issue. The sooner I take the measurement after a pull, the less the differential between #1 and #2. It could just be that the alt fan is blowing enough air to cool the #1 primary down. I'll still swap the plug wire with a different cylinder to see what happens, but I'm not sure how much farther than that I want to go. Since the odd bank seems to be running richer than the even bank, the only malfunction that would make sense is a stuck open injector. The last time I had the intake off was to check for exactly that, and none of the injectors leaked fuel when I primed the pump. I suppose it could just flow a ton more than my other injectors, but I'd like to think Accel/Holley has better QC standards than that.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,426
Likes: 46
From: Lynchburg, VA
probably should go get my inspection sticker before I try that. Any suggestions on supporting the front Y-pipe with everything else disconnected? IIRC there's no hanger there. I suppose I could run open headers but that would mess up my O2 sensor readings (and be extra loud).
Last edited by C4ProjectCar; Aug 14, 2020 at 10:19 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 6,192
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From: near the thumb in the mitten
[QUOTE=C4ProjectCar;1602013500]Well, it's both, right? You can get away with doing a leakdown on a hyper piston cold, but forged pistons have such a higher thermal expansion
Engine should be warm regardless of piston type, prior to compression and Leakdown. Running compression is an indication of cylinder filling or valvetrain operation. How much air is getting in cylinder.
With forged pistons for the most part that has changed. There are lightweight racing piston that are loose in the hole until engine warms up. However modern forged pistons are designed for tighter clearances, providing quieter operation with less wear.
Engine should be warm regardless of piston type, prior to compression and Leakdown. Running compression is an indication of cylinder filling or valvetrain operation. How much air is getting in cylinder.
With forged pistons for the most part that has changed. There are lightweight racing piston that are loose in the hole until engine warms up. However modern forged pistons are designed for tighter clearances, providing quieter operation with less wear.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,426
Likes: 46
From: Lynchburg, VA
Engine should be warm regardless of piston type, prior to compression and Leakdown. Running compression is an indication of cylinder filling or valvetrain operation. How much air is getting in cylinder.
With forged pistons for the most part that has changed. There are lightweight racing piston that are loose in the hole until engine warms up. However modern forged pistons are designed for tighter clearances, providing quieter operation with less wear.
With forged pistons for the most part that has changed. There are lightweight racing piston that are loose in the hole until engine warms up. However modern forged pistons are designed for tighter clearances, providing quieter operation with less wear.
Gotcha, wasn't sure if the cat was in question or just running through a single 3" pipe period. Unfortunately, my cat is welded to the rear Y-pipe.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 21,543
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From: Park City Utah
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 7,708
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From: indy indiana
if you had been a bit faster on your RT, you may have beat him. Don't feel to bad, my 86 is wore out also and it turns righr at 14, Think my fastest was 14.03, You spinning to much at take off? Oh, mine is pretty much stock , Looking for a new set of AFRs 195
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,157
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From: Glenbeulah Wi
very good idea, anything more then 5 PSI is a big restriction and this needs to be checked at WOT, not idle. Tap a 1/4-28 pipe plug and add an 1/8 coppe line 2 feet long and attach a pressure gauge to it and run it in through the window so you can see what is going on.