ZF 6-Speed vs 4L60E - ECU differences?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 1999
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From: WilkesBarre PA
The 700R4 will work. It doesn't need anything from the computer. You can run a aftermarket lockup controller off the speedo signal. If they used an original auto shifter you can wire the clutch safety switch to the auto shifter, as well as the reverse light harness off the 6-speed to work with the auto shifter. You should get the correct factory service manuals for all the wiring layouts. I've been running a 700R4 in my 96GS (was ZF) for over 15 years.
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Joined: May 2021
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From: NY
A sale might be considered the 'reasonable' thing to do. A ZF & shifter is no where near the end of the expense involved. Hydraulics, flywheel, clutch etc aren't inexpensive. Make the engine run with everything 'as is' and rethink it. Time is $$$ and needs considered. Purchase a similar 'total loss' that's either complete with the ZF and needed hardware or maybe an A4.
You've accomplished much in a 'few days'! Now it's time to 'rethink
You've accomplished much in a 'few days'! Now it's time to 'rethink
There's not necessarily a budget so long it doesn't exceed the value of this car. It's just a cheap car to toy around with on my time off...I've only owned euro cars prior to this and the costs associated to make this car "complete" is only a fraction it cost to keep those prior euro cars running.
Team Owner
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I've never worked with a C4 so I have no clue what hardware is there and what is missing. But looks like driveline wise everything is there. Right now it's just to trace what's left of the clutch system.
There's not necessarily a budget so long it doesn't exceed the value of this car. It's just a cheap car to toy around with on my time off...I've only owned euro cars prior to this and the costs associated to make this car "complete" is only a fraction it cost to keep those prior euro cars running.
There's not necessarily a budget so long it doesn't exceed the value of this car. It's just a cheap car to toy around with on my time off...I've only owned euro cars prior to this and the costs associated to make this car "complete" is only a fraction it cost to keep those prior euro cars running.
Good luck! I get 'PROJECT'!!
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Joined: May 2021
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From: NY
The 700R4 will work. It doesn't need anything from the computer. You can run a aftermarket lockup controller off the speedo signal. If they used an original auto shifter you can wire the clutch safety switch to the auto shifter, as well as the reverse light harness off the 6-speed to work with the auto shifter. You should get the correct factory service manuals for all the wiring layouts. I've been running a 700R4 in my 96GS (was ZF) for over 15 years.
should an aftermarket TQ converter lock up controller work in place of this?
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From: NY
@RichS can offer you good advice. I'd think as I suggested - make run 'as it sits' confirm driveshaft and C-beam is appropriately fastened. Do you have shifter etc for the A4 that's installed now?
Good luck! I get 'PROJECT'!!
Good luck! I get 'PROJECT'!!
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 7,338
Likes: 137
From: WilkesBarre PA
Interesting. From what I see right now there is no TV cable coming from ASR to anywhere near the transmission. Just one to the throttle body, one to the gas pedal, and cruise control. I’m gonna assume they dropped the cable since the 4l60e was fully controlled thru the PCM.
should an aftermarket TQ converter lock up controller work in place of this?
should an aftermarket TQ converter lock up controller work in place of this?
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From: NY
The 700 needs the TV cable. I took my original throttle cable bracket and graphed in the tv holder setup and used a cable off an LT1 Camaro. You may be able to find a auto Fbody LT1 bracket to use that would have the mount on it. I run a aftermarket Throttle body that has the stud attached to it. The lockup controller only does that. "lock the converter"
About to take it apart tonight and see if I can hook it up. Otherwise, if I do a compatible ASR box what else would be required to make the 700R4 work? TV cable hooked up, trans bolted in, shifter link hooked. Can’t imagine it requires much more if it doesn’t need to be linked up to the PCM
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From: NY
ZF swap is out the door at this point. I can't find where the clutch pedal would mount to under the dash. I cannot find the clutch release switch wires anywhere under the dash(purple and yellow). Everything about this car looks like a prior manual except under the dash..that looks like an automatic. The only purple/yellow wire I can find plugs to the wiper motor.
SMH. I am completely lost at this moment. Can't even get the d*amn motor started. I got the correct resistor hooked up to VATS, security light not blinking anymore, but still no crank = N safety switch. But there is no safety switch to be found.
SMH. I am completely lost at this moment. Can't even get the d*amn motor started. I got the correct resistor hooked up to VATS, security light not blinking anymore, but still no crank = N safety switch. But there is no safety switch to be found.
Last edited by Avacado11; May 10, 2021 at 06:54 PM.
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Team Owner
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ZF swap is out the door at this point. I can't find where the clutch pedal would mount to under the dash. I cannot find the clutch release switch wires anywhere under the dash(purple and yellow). Everything about this car looks like a prior manual except under the dash..that looks like an automatic. The only purple/yellow wire I can find plugs to the wiper motor.
SMH. I am completely lost at this moment. Can't even get the d*amn motor started. I got the correct resistor hooked up to VATS, security light not blinking anymore, but still no crank = N safety switch. But there is no safety switch to be found.
SMH. I am completely lost at this moment. Can't even get the d*amn motor started. I got the correct resistor hooked up to VATS, security light not blinking anymore, but still no crank = N safety switch. But there is no safety switch to be found.
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Joined: May 2021
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From: NY
Do you have the FSM? The theft relay is left of the column behind dash and both PPL and YEL will be available there and you could trace to where the clutch operated safety switch actually was. If you have the FSM the 8A-201 section has many images that could help you. Without the FSM this car could be quite a challenge!!
I eventually found the safety switch wires. It was cut short and already bound together all the way in the back. Safety switch bypassed. Starter Relay tested and also replaced. Correct VATS resistor in place(plugged into the end of the orange line that was pulled from the ignition cylinder). Still no crank. Security light is solid now(was blinking yesterday). Waiting for my VATS bypass to show up maybe that'll make a difference but I doubt it.
Going the pull the starter tomorrow and check the solenoid. I dont think there's much more outside of that.
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 1,925
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From: Orange, CA
The 700R4 will work. It doesn't need anything from the computer. You can run a aftermarket lockup controller off the speedo signal. If they used an original auto shifter you can wire the clutch safety switch to the auto shifter, as well as the reverse light harness off the 6-speed to work with the auto shifter. You should get the correct factory service manuals for all the wiring layouts. I've been running a 700R4 in my 96GS (was ZF) for over 15 years.
If you want to try to make the 700R4 work, I can help you "massage" the ZF6 code on the PCM to make it a little less unhappy (and work a little better with a torque converter since it's set up to run a manual transmission with a clutch).
But I can't help you make the mechanicals work, and frankly I think it's a lost cause not worth the effort. Should you get to the point where you want help with the code, though, hit me up.
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Joined: May 2021
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From: NY
To OP, while you can make a 700R4 work, the PCM will still be quite unhappy as it will be missing several components that should be there if it has a 4L60E or ZF6.
If you want to try to make the 700R4 work, I can help you "massage" the ZF6 code on the PCM to make it a little less unhappy (and work a little better with a torque converter since it's set up to run a manual transmission with a clutch).
But I can't help you make the mechanicals work, and frankly I think it's a lost cause not worth the effort. Should you get to the point where you want help with the code, though, hit me up.
If you want to try to make the 700R4 work, I can help you "massage" the ZF6 code on the PCM to make it a little less unhappy (and work a little better with a torque converter since it's set up to run a manual transmission with a clutch).
But I can't help you make the mechanicals work, and frankly I think it's a lost cause not worth the effort. Should you get to the point where you want help with the code, though, hit me up.
that being said, how much do these normally go for? All I see is overly inflated prices 3k for motor and another 3k for trans on eBay. Id hate to be the a-hole to lowball a person.
Last edited by Avacado11; May 11, 2021 at 01:11 AM.
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 1,925
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From: Orange, CA
i was able to find a 95 LT1/4L60E combo with full harness locally. As long as the seller has a reasonable asking price I’ll take it. Atleast I’ll be starting from a clean slate instead of someone’s half rigged job. Just doesn’t sit well with me having the 700R4 in there incase something goes wrong later down the road.
that being said, how much do these normally go for? All I see is overly inflated prices 3k for motor and another 3k for trans on eBay. Id hate to be the a-hole to lowball a person.
that being said, how much do these normally go for? All I see is overly inflated prices 3k for motor and another 3k for trans on eBay. Id hate to be the a-hole to lowball a person.
EDIT: LMAO Monster Transmission will sell you a fully built Corvette-spec 4L60E for $2000. $3k is just plain insane period, whoever is asking that is high as a kite.
Last edited by Nomake Wan; May 11, 2021 at 01:23 AM.
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,699
Likes: 231
From: Hawthorne CA
$3k for a 4L60E is insane unless you're buying a brand new fresh race-spec transmission built by a well-respected shop. That's more expensive than used ZF6 transmissions go for. That transmission is super common and not complex. It shouldn't be so expensive.
EDIT: LMAO Monster Transmission will sell you a fully built Corvette-spec 4L60E for $2000. $3k is just plain insane period, whoever is asking that is high as a kite.
EDIT: LMAO Monster Transmission will sell you a fully built Corvette-spec 4L60E for $2000. $3k is just plain insane period, whoever is asking that is high as a kite.
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 1,925
Likes: 610
From: Orange, CA
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,699
Likes: 231
From: Hawthorne CA