Okay, last week I had a couple occurences of my engine shutting off while driving and then refusing to crank. I thought I had it licked by cleaning the positive battery terminal and switching to a stud/nut attachement.

...Just got home on foot. Car dead in a parking lot down the street. When I went to make a run to the store, I experienced the same thing that has happened a few times recently, which is that nothing happens when I turn the key to start. This time the cluster lights were a little dim. It started on the second try, though, and runs just fine.

Drove to the store, parked my car, then came back to head home, and it would crank and crank but not start. Took a pause and tried again. This time, the cluster was dead and it wouldn't crank at all. What the hell's going on here?

What is it in the circuitry that can a) cause the starter to refuse to crank, b) dim or kill the cluster lights (interior and headlights are fine), and c) also let the starter crank but not fire the car up?

I should note that my battery is 9 years old. If it weren't for the crank-but-no-start incident, I'd think it was the battery for sure. But a bad battery wouldn't crank the starter but somehow prevent ignition, would it?


UPDATE: It was a faulty ignition switch. The one component that is able to affect multiple systems and present various odd symptoms.

 

A 9 year old battery is the first thing I would replace

 

You might have a ground issue, on the back of the block there are many grounds for various circuits in the car, I would look at the bellhousing bolts and the grounds above the oil filter to make sure everything is clean and tight. Also check your power lead to the HEI distributer.

Measure the voltage at the battery and if it is fine while cranking it is not the battery.

 

This sounds like a connectivity issue . Check the jumper terminal between the battery and the firewall where a bunch of fusible links attach to a single small post . Clean all of the ring terminals with sandpaper and reconnect . Definitely clean the ground wires at the engine above the oil filter and the bellhousing bolt on the drivers side at the mid way point between the top and side bolts behind the head . Personally , I would change out a 9 year old battery just because . Home Depot has good prices on Exide batteries ... around $110 for a 3yr free replacement ... about the same $$$ at Walmart .

 

Good advice, y'all.

I put a new battery in and it had no effect. No lights at the instrument cluster and no crank, no click, no nothin'.

Tow truck enroute (I've seen a lot of tow truck since buying this Corvette...) and I'll get it home for inspection soon.

 

Ugh. The plot thickens.

Having gotten the car home, I was digging into it and realized that after I removed the positive battery leads last week to clean them, I only got one of the two reinstalled. I think this is a non-stock setup, though. Can someone confirm that there's supposed to be only one positive lead coming off the battery?

Mine has a second lead that looks like it runs down to the starter. Since I managed to start the car while this lead was hanging free, I assume it's not crucial and that the starter is obviously still getting power from somewhere.

So here's what happened. I got both positive leads reattached and when I went to hook up the negative, I got a sound and light show. Did a little afternoon arc welding. Something clearly amiss.

I'm finding intermittent continuity between the positive leads and the ground lead. And the positive leads and the alternator housing (since it's grounded..)

So I have a major short somewhere? Could a degraded starter be causing a short?

One more thing: I often have to wrestle with my key and the ignition safety lock button to turn it back to off and get my key out. Could this be related?

 

Update:

I am a Dumb Guy. What I thought was a power lead is actually the ground wire that runs to the driver side bellhousing. It's red on my car and this fooled my simpleton brain.

I have my battery properly connected again and still have the problem of no start, no power to the dash. My key cylinder in the column seems really wonky. It hangs up when trying to turn the car to off and the part that rotates comes out of the column about 1/8" when I jiggle it or pull the key out. Is there anything going on in there that could prevent power to the dash, starting the car, or even running the car? I know the actual ignition switch is down lower on the column and is known to fail only rarely. The key cylinder is merely a mechanical assembly that manipulates the rods that run to the switch, right?

 

To recap:

My battery seems to be healthy and is now hooked up correctly.

I've yet to clean any grounding points.

No power to the dash cluster and no crank.

Key cylinder is really wonky but I'm not clear on whether this could affect power to the dash.

This post is redundant now that I've deleted the previous questions I asked after discovering the answers. I don't see a way to delete the post entirely, though.

 

The key cylinder is part of the VATS (Vehicle anti theft system) So a bad key cylinder could cause a no crank condition.

 

The last stranding incident went like this:

- Turn the key, full lights to the dash and it cranks fine but doesn't start.

- Wait a minute, try again. No power to dash, no crank, just nothing.

It all seems kinda VATSish except for the black dash. I don't think VATS has any way to cut power there. So I'm left suspecting it's something else. I still need to check all my grounds.

 

My current suspicion is that the ignition switch is the most likely culprit. As far as I can tell, it's the only element that would be able to affect, intermittently, the three things being compromised here: Starter solenoid and drive motor operation, engine ignition, and dash power. All of these things get power from various positions of the ignition switch. Today it comes out for inspection. I don't know if it's feasible to clean and reinstall but if so, I'll give it a go.

 

Well I'm not saying I was right about the ignition switch just yet but I found a whole lotta sketchiness up under there. It looks like the original switch wiring must have been severed and replaced at some point and the splices are all janky. Crimp connectors wrapped in electrical tape. The orange lead to the blue plug was falling out when I pulled the switch down from atop the column.

I was ready to replace the ignition switch but the one it has seems pretty nice, clean, and smooth operating, upon cursory inspection. I think soldering and wrapping these wiring leads is my first move. And lemme tell you, I can already see how fun it's going to be getting up under there with a hot soldering iron..




The orange lead to the blue plug on my car is actually the YELLOW lead that has had an orange wire crimped onto it. This is the lead that was falling out of the plug when I pulled it down. Here I am comparing my in-car plug to an older plug I have on hand from a steering column out of an '85 or '86.





Can anyone confirm which leads on the plugs correspond to the factory wiring diagram here? Here I've drawn a black box around some leads and a blue box around others, corresponding to what I think is what but I'd like a second, third, or eighth opinion if I can get 'em.

 

Running some continuity tests on my ignition switch blue plug, I've found that in the start position there is no continuity between the RED (power) lead and the PINK lead. If my assumption about the plugs was correct in the previous post, this means I'm getting no power to the injectors, the ECM, the cluster, or the EST while attempting to crank, right?

The factory diagram indicates with that thick black curved line that all ignition switch positions from Run to Start should have power to the pink wire, doesn't it?

EDIT: Just got home with a new ignition switch and testing its functionality confirms I am correct. There should be continuity between RED and PINK on the blue plug in both Run and Start positions.

All else being healthy, this could result in an engine that would crank but not fire, while the dash cluster was black, yeah?

And if you throw in the loose wire end at the YELLOW lead in the blue plug, this would then result in a no-crank condition in addition to the dead dash, would it not?

At this point I'm thinking I need to fix the wire leads and get a new ignition switch. Anyone got any other ideas?

Continuity tests on the black plug indicate that it is funtioning normally, which agrees with the symptoms exhibited by the car. I believe this confirms that I have my plug boxes drawn in correctly on the factory diagram.

 

Progress report:

The new ignition switch has restored power to my dash.

Car still isn't cranking, though.

I've verified these things via testing:

1) The neutral safety switch functions properly

2) The starter does function normally when I jumper its terminals

3) The smaller starter lead does not receive voltage when the ignition is turned to START

4) There are no error codes present at the ALDL

5) The DIC does not flash any abnormal SECURITY warnings when attempting to start


So somewhere between the ignition switch and the starter, the signal is being interrupted. It looks like it's either going to be the starter enable relay or the pass key decoder module.

I suppose I could verify that it's one of these if I checked for voltage at the hot side of the neutral safety switch plug while attempting to start, right?

 

I've just verified that I'm not seeing voltage at either of the yellow pins at the starter enable relay. This means the neither the relay nor the pass key module are receiving START signal.

I guess this means the problem is either my brand new ignition switch or the wiring harness between in and the starter enable relay, since I know the ignition switch is receiving voltage.

 

I've verified continuity from the plug end of the YELLOW lead off the ignition switch (START position voltage) to both YELLOW leads at the starter enable relay. So that bit of wiring harness seems good.

This means:

- I'm getting voltage to my ignition switch.

- My ignition switch has bench tested functional before installation and now a second time upon DE-installation to my great inconvenience

- The path to the starter enable relay is sound.

- Voltage is not making it to that path.

All I can think of now is that perhaps my worn out key cylinder is not actually moving the ignition switch to the START position when I turn the key. It feels fine when I turn it but who knows.

The ignition switch frame does have slots for the mounting bolts so maybe I should ensure that it's positioned such that full engagement is achieved.

Does anyone have any ideas?

 

Okay, well sure e-go&*%^#@%$amn-nough, I remounted the ignition switch full forward (the start position pulls the rod full backward), hooked my multimeter to the positive battery lead and the starter enable relay lead, turned to START, and got nothing.

Unmounted the ignition switch and pushed it a little farther forward and BOOM, continuity. A day of electrical troubleshooting and the problem was slop in GM's absolutely moronic divorced ignition switch design. What a bunch of ********.

I'm going to order a new key cylinder and hope that solves the slop issue but of course I'll have to be prepared to chase down the next point of failure in their shitty design. Looking at a diagram of the linkage inside the column, I see there are plenty.

To recap this entire affair:

My ignition switch went bad and caused intermittent no-start, no-crank, no power to dash events.

Crappy PO wiring possibly contributed.

My worn out key cylinder isn't allowing proper activation of the new, stiffer, ignition switch.

 

Since you have replaced the battery and have been going through all these procedures, my crazy thought is that you might have drained the new battery enough so it won’t start. I’d try jumping the battery just to make sure that the battery isn’t the problem. I’ve went through the same issues you’re dealing with now, and I found that the new battery wasn’t fully charged because it sat on the shelf at the parts store, and after running the hood lights and other things it didn’t have enough power to crank the motor. I jumped it and it fired right up.

 

Update:

I replaced the key cylinder, getting new VATS keys made, and installed it. Still won't crank because the linkage won't physically engage the ignition switch. Even when I have the switch installed full forward on its slots, no engagement.

Today I pulled the column out so I can tear it back down and inspect the damned geared linkage. Since the old switch did engage physically but was way less stiff in sliding than the new switch, I suspect I'll find some damaged linkage that was intact enough to work with the weak switch but is folding under the increased resistance of the new one.

EDIT: The only reason it wasn't cranking after the ignition switch and key cylinder replacement is that some dummy forgot to reinstall the Starter Enable Relay. With that in place, it fires right up.

 

I feel for ya! It never ceases to amaze me how many total f-ing hacks are out there, butchering wiring harness and everything else!!! Do you live in an area with 'real' salvage yards that you can physically go into and they actually get corvettes in!? If so, I'd seriously consider just finding an unmolested steering column and for that matter, if you could luck out, spending the day pulling the whole damn wiring harness out of a donor car! Or I'd be calling Mirrock and have them round up the stuff for you...I understand that it's easy to spend other people's money, but it seems like your wiring has been absolutely hacked, and the amount of time it will take to go through it and 'fix it', you might as well spend that time installing a harness that is fully intact! Just a my thoughts on it. Good luck with getting it all sorted out👍
edit: maybe your harness isn't as bad as I think, what's going on under the hood, any splicing going on there as well?