Ok this blows. Im beside myself on this.

88 built trans, manual reverse valve body, stacked plate oil cooler, 2800 stall, no TV cable. 1200 miles on build. Trans runs 150 degress.

Long story short. Took car out last nite. Went 40 miles, totally uneventful ride. Everything ran great as usual. Parked car in driveway to cool off as i usually do. Sat an hour. Had 5 gallons of mixed fuel (97 octane) that i got saturday and poured in tank. Sat another half hour. Started car to pull in garage, wouldnt idle. Restart same. Figured idle screw loosened so poped hood and adjusted. Now car idles too high so adjusted. Weird, never did that. Ok, well put in 1st and car was bucking and making a bad sound. Put in reverse, same but way worse, sounded like i had a broken u joint or something. WTF i said. Shut off and pulled trans dipstick. Was visibly low. The level has never changed in years. Fluid perfectly clean. So i looked at driveway and under car. Not 1 piece of evidence that it leaked out. So i added more (max atf synthetic). Started car, was better in 1st but not reverse. In fact in reverse it stalled and as it coasted i could again hear a horrible sound like something is very broken in trans. So i pulled in garage for the nite.

Im definitely upset about this. If i blew up forward id say ok, whatever. But how did i damage reverse? Im hoping to put car on quick jack tonite and pull pan, but im usually beat by the time i get home.

The transmission experts here id love to hear from ya. I forgot how to tag you (arbee and others)

Thanks, and be gentile lol

 

That kind of event sucks. Nasty noises coming from a trans is never good. By your description, I would assume you are running max line pressure. Great for racing but for daily driving, over time, can cause various catastrophes. For racing, one expects and accepts these risks. Many scenarios here. My first thought was a broken pump rotor but then you would not move at all. Since it is worse in reverse, that involves the reverse input drum, sunshell and rear planet/roller clutch. In forward, all the drive power comes from the front planet but the sunshell and RID also turn, albeit not under load. The curious part is why this would effect the engine. Maybe something is seizing in the trans or torque converter causing a load. The loss of oil is perplexing with no signs. I would assume you regularly check the level. Possibly blew out the vent during (or before) your drive. Again, At this point, your only move is as you suggested - pull the inspection cover first and then the pan. If you find shrapnel, post a picture of it for ***** and giggles only because pieces in the pan, unfortunately mean trouble.

 

Thanks arbee. Was waiting to hear from ya.

Yeah i had this exact trans setup in the 90s in my camaro, never had 1 issue in 30k miles of driving it. This trans has been plagued since day 1 with the whole bad valve body issue and what not.

Due to unexpected issue im off work today. So im gonna get it up on the lift later and pull the dust shield, drain trans, then pull trans pan and see. But yeah, as of last night there was no visable oil leak anywhere. But i guess ill know more later. What kills me too is im one of the people who actually love the 700.

Thanks again!

 

Ok. Fluid drained clear. But only 1 gallon (i must have added 1.5 qts last nite). Magnet had some dust on it. Under side of car completely clean and dry. Dropped pan and saw this. They are all almost the same size. Dropped filter and top side of filter is glittery. With car in air before i did anything i put in neutral. Could roll back wheels forward, but only about a half turn backwards before it would lock right up like its in park....

 

 

Those are the rollers out of the Lo Roller Clutch.

For that many of them to get loose indicates (to me) that the outer race fractured. In forward, 1st gear, the lo-roller is holding. The outer race is also the hub for the Lo-Reverse clutch. With the lo-reverse clutch compromised, that's how reverse is also affected.

Question for arbee: When put in forward gear, the forward clutch is applied, and the lo-roller holds. If the trans is 'locked' at high line pressure, is the shock on the lo-roller increased? I posit that it possibly is, and could the forward clutch accumulator be modified (stronger spring?) to reduce the shock load on the lo-roller when put in D in a garage shift? Thanks. EDIT: I'm not sure what differences there are for the manual valve body. Maybe there's more to it than just "high line pressure" in a garage shift. Just a thought for the OP to ask his builder about. Cheers.

 

Yeah guy that built it said looks like bearing from rear planetary set...asked him but havent heard back yet if he (and you) think the torque converter is screwed as well...

 

Planet gear needle bearings are long and skinny. Lo-roller clutch "rollers" are fat and short. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure those are the lo-roller clutch rollers.

Regarding torque converter damage: I see some coarse black 'coffee grounds' size debris in the pan. A tear down will reveal where that debris originated from, and for how long it was "making metal". The issue with metal debris is that it possibly made its way into the torque converter, and converters are difficult to flush or purge without disassembly to get the metal out. On the other-hand, for the debris seen in the pan to get to the converter it would have to get by the filter. Which it well may not have. So the converter is possibly ok. I suppose one could set the converter upside down over a clean container for a day or two and look at the condition of the fluid that drains out. If there's no metal, maybe it never received any. But the real way to know is have the converter cut open and inspected.

Bummer.

 

Thanks for that. Weighing all my options at this point. But definitely a bummer.

 

IMO, the high line pressure only effects the apply rate and holding power of the forward clutches. The front ring gear attempting to turn CCW is what locks up the roller clutch and therefore allows the front sun gear to rotate the carrier which is splined to the output shaft. I don't personally have experience with this level of modification but a shop owner I am friends with tells me that often in this type of application, even the accumulators are blocked.

 

Dogs is correct, those are definitely rollers from the roller clutch. In a built up trans such as yours's, I'm surprised the builder did not replace the roller clutch with a sprag. Dog bone sprag is much stronger. I would consider this on your rebuild. Would require a new center support without the ramps but that may be toast anyways right now. Teardown will reveal the carnage.

EDIT: While I have been told a sprag style center support is available, a quick search with Google Dude does not bring me any definitive results. I will search further when I have time.

 

Noted...gotta talk to him today about all this. Right after i start a go fund me first lol...but ill keep this updated as i know more.

​Thanks for all your help, any other advise is appreciated!

And here i was about to start collecting parts for the D44 i got as in my mind the 36 was the weak point lol.

 

This was on magnet.

 

And funny, this looks exactly what was in pan and what you all were saying.

 

Trans out, heads to the shop Friday. Ill update when I know more..

 

As a continuation of my post #11, I never was able to find a supplier of a center support for use with a sprag. It would appear that these transmissions are relegated to use a roller clutch even for high HP applications.

 

Ok thank you for that. Ill update as I know more

 

never mind

 

Im going to add these pics to my other thread as well....but just got these from the builder. Will be getting a heavy duty set. Clutches and bands were all good. Convertor is being send out to be inspected..

 

Will be going with the Sonnax 5 gear set which will change the ratios as well. Did the math, think ill be happier with the gear ratio spread. Also the Sonnax input housing kit and the reaction shaft kit. Id rather do this now and have a piece of mind. Just need to sell some more blood lol...