Guys,

Last night after helping dad at the dealership install some new front Qa1 shocks on his car. I went to leave the dealership. Turned the key and nothing at all. Flipped the switch to volts on the dash....12.4 Volts present...WTF?!!

I tried it again...not as much as a click.....

I tried it several times and nothing. We pushed it into a rack and lifted the car to gain easier access to the starter. I jumped the Hot wire to the solinoid and it it cranked over, but not real fast. I have noticed it seemed weak, but discounted the last few weak starts on the fact that the door in my car was left open a little the other night, when I took my 2yr olds car seat out of the car, after taking him for a little cruise.

I then lowered the car and tried the key again and it turned the car over, but slowly this time.

I tried again and it was stone dead again.

My question is, kinda stupic to ask after just ordering a CSI ministarter from Jegs....I guess dropping 350 beans on a platinum series one made me second guess the possible problem. :rolleyes:

Do you all think its the starter or do you think its something else possibly. The VATS won't do that will it? I never had any problems with the vats before. Also when I just hold the key to the start position, when it should be crankin, the battery voltage doesn't deplete like I would think it would if the internals of the motor were grounded. Rather it just holds steady as if nothing out of the norm was happening.

Could this be in my ignition? I never really had a starter get weak before. They usually just quite, or click.

Also the starter got hotter than Anna Nichole on an all you can eat chicken wing buffet date.

The headers were stone cold.

The starter was an Autozone special :rolleyes: I knew when I put it in, with that compression it wouldn't last. Now I get to take my headers off and all the fun stuff associated with a starter change.

Oh well let me know.
:thumbs:

 

AZ starters (or any cheapo brand 'X' for that matter) and high compression motors do not good bedfellows make...
-Jeb

 

So you think its the starter Jeb.....

Why would it kick over when I jumpered the solinoid to the hot? Do you think its whatever is between the hot and the solinoid inside the starter that is fakey? :confused:

 

I vote starter too........the armature winding :yesnod:

How hot did it get again? :lolg: :lolg:

 

I think it's the starter but check the ignition wire to be sure...If it's sending a signal you should be okay. It just sounds like the starter to me; particularly if its slow, even with over 12v to it.
-Jeb

 

Any ideas on how to check the ignition wire? I'm a mechanical wizard and an electrical idiot :yesnod: :thumbs:

 

the VATS will do that too

If you turn the key and the digidash lights right up, and nothin happens, its probably a triggered VATS. Then you have to wait 7min for it to reset.

The starter usually grinds and grinds or clicks, I guess that could be it but i doubt it.

 

Jesse, remember when I was firing my car up a couple weeks ago? I thought it was VATS too at first since there wasn't even a clicking. It ended up being the enabler wire (really small one with 5/16" nut on it) on the solenoid was not tightened down. Do you have any play in the stud its mounted to?

So moral of the story is if the starter for some reason has lost its 12v to the solenoid it'll act like VATS.

 

why not check the amps the starter is pulling??? if you were at the dealership i'm sure they have a anylizer that checks the starting / charging sytem volts/amps/ect...it sounds like a starter but if ya check it and it pulls 300-400 amps or i've seen even higher then ya know for sure :thumbs: good luck
:cheers:

 

Jesse, I'm an electrical idiot too...So don't feel bad. You can simply check the voltage to the ignition wire going to the starter; it's 12v switched. If it has power you're golden on that end and it's in the starter. If it doesn't it could be the VATS or something else...
-Jeb

 

Oh yeah.... when I had that problem too the volt gauge wouldn't move when I tried to start it. It would sit there at 12.2 and not go down at all since the starter was doing nothing. Thats the other reason why I thought it was vats.

 

Scorp How did you fix it. I pulled the battery neg, for about a minute or two, then it still did nothing. I then raised the car and tried the jumper from solenoid to 12v hot wire. It then turned over and over slower than typical and the car didn't start.

I have my other two kids tonight, so I decided to call it a night and play with them...as I don't get to see them as often as I like and the car can wait! :D

:cheers:

 

Well luckily mine was just the nut being loose. I had to snake a socket in there and tigthen it up.

 

just cause you have 12 volts at the starter does not mean it's the starter without question...you really need to check the amp draw of the starter to make sure...if you check it and it is only pulling minamal amps say 75-150 then i would be taking a close look at my battery cables and more notably ground conections...especially since ya just had the motor out.... trust me i'm a mechanic we never make mistakes :rofl: :rofl: LOL

 

I checked the ignition wire real quick tonight as you guys had me thinking.

Its getting 11.9 volts when you hit the key, yet nothing happens.

Then all of a sudden it started sickly turning over the engine, but this thing doesn't start unless its cranked over pretty quick. With that compression it just doesn't like a slow start.

So I am pretty certain that its the starter. Also it was hotter than my analogy before again after a few cranks of it. This to me seems like something is not correct. 10 sec of crankin max and i could hardly touch the case of it. :crazy:

Guess I will take it down out when the CSI platinum starter arrives from Jegs. :cheers:

 

Don't discount the battery not being charged. The dealership should have a loadtester for the battery. The one I have has a big shunt in it and you clip it to the battery and hit the switch for about 10-15 seconds and watch the test meter go down while the shunt is draining the battery. I have had bad batteries show 11+ volts but can't provide the amperage to crank the engine fast. Assume for a minute it is only putting out about 150 amps and the high compression engine might need 250+ amps to crank decently(I'm just guessing at the amp numbers). So the 150 amps aren't going to crank it fast but the starter motor is going to drain the 150 available amps and get hot in the process. I'd make darn sure its not a corroded battery connection or starter connection or marginal battery before I'd remover the header to get the starter out.

Let us know what you find out the problem is in the end.

 

I had two different battery charges connected to it at different times...

Also the terminals are only a week one from the walbo hot wire kit...

11.9 volts are present at the ignition wire when the key is turned.

Im pretty certain its the starter :rolleyes:

 

This Crossfire guy doesn't know beans about the VATS system. But I also, suspect the starter, especially if the VATS checks out. Not the starter motor, not an armature, but the solenoid. My clue, was when you said the volts didn't drop when the key is in the start position. MY therory is that the solenoid isn't closing, no current draw, no cranking. Even if they weren't hot at the time, headers "cook" solenoids. I'll bet a nickle against a donut, the new starter will solve the problem. Even with the new starter, a heat shield may delay the next occurance. After that, it's "remote solenoid" time. If it IS the VATS, ignore the above. That advice is for the rest of us. Good luck, and...

RACE ON!!!

 

Jesse,

I had the exact same problem and also cranked (jumped) the starter with the with the key on. I did this repeatedly, no sign of that motor trying to start. It was the VATS. I bypassed it for about $3 worth of Radio Shack resistors. I've got the proceedure bookmarked somewhere if you want it. I just couldn't deal with pulling the column apart to replace the ignition switch :nonod: .

It worked great rght up till I wasted the motor :sad:

 

Well I thought I would report back. I went out to and wrestled with the starter tonight. I am happy to report I managed to get it out without removing the headers. Took it back to Autozone and got my 201 beans back for it :bb They said, hey don't worry about it, if your not happy with it, then return it. Unfortunately I did not request a replacement. I told them its in both theirs and my best interest for me to get a good CSI PLatinum starter instead. As I can see making a trip all the way to NJ and having the friggin thing conk out again. THat would really frost me.

Anyways I was a little leary that maybe the problems was VATS related or something else that was going to be a nightmare to track down. Something I really don't need right now, with my D44 in a sickly state :(

Anyways I hooked the jumper pack up to the starter for some testing. I jumpered from the hot wire to the solenoid. It just sparked a little and nothing happen. I went over to the roll away and got some influence. A big old :smash:. Gave it a few raps and presto, it kicked over and spun in a sickly cycling manner. rrrrrrRRRRRrrrrrRRRRRRRrrrrr. So I thought hell good enough, and I slapped it back in the car.......J/k :jester

I was happy with the sickly turning over of the engine and I made my way to AZ with it, for the return.

CSI starter should be here mid day tomorrow. I have a corporate golf outing I have to attend/participate in early in the morning. After that I told the guys, that work for me, I'm not returning to work that I had a starter to install in the car. If they wanted to call it an early weekend, they owe me a few brews while golfing and I would to intoxicated to know they did not return to work. :D

What a nice guy I am! :smash: :cheers: :thumbs:

Talk to you all later after the installation of the new starter. :thumbs: :auto: