It sure isn't fair if they're all getting their lottery numbers generated off of your license but it is if they each bought their own individual license. Then it wouldn't matter whether they all gathered around one PC or they all had it installed on their own. It would also depend on whether the software was licensed per user or per PC. If it were per user then as long as the number of users didn't exceed the number of licenses, I don't see anything legally or ethically wrong. I see it as similar to Novell and Microsoft selling additional licenses based on the number of users on the network as opposed to an actual program (such as MS Word) where it's licensed per PC (and any number of users can use that PC to type up their individual documents). What the software vendor might have a problem with is having live copies floating all over the place but still, what's to keep anyone from buying the software making copies (that's what MS product activation is supposed to prevent from happening)? Anyway, all of this is speculation until somebody reads the licensing agreement although I'd be surprised if the vendor had a problem with it installed on a solitary laptop. As for my idea of installing the software on a flash drive and mailing that out instead of a laptop, again the actual license must be checked as well as someone who's actually installed it and used it chiming in here to see if that's even possible...


[Modified by tobijohn, 1:29 PM 2/26/2004]

 

Scorp.

No-one is trying to get rich off the idea first. And I see that its no different than like jim said a garage that uses the software to diagnose customer cars coming in. I am just doing it long distance. Obviously this will have to be cleared with Ease, but really its no different than if I asked if I could use there software on several of my friends cars. I put it on my Dads vette when he got it and I did not have to put any VIN numbers in. Diacom requires it, but not ease, at least it didn't when I used it. Maybe it tracks then on its own. I never really paid attention.

But at the end of the day. It doesn't make much sense for people that are having problems to have 2 choices. 1. Take it to a garage to have them charge you 500+ dollars to diagnose a vacuum leak that I would have spotted in 20 secs up bringing up a log. 2. Buy the software and laptop, have the learning curve that it takes to spot these things. Then have no use for it.

I also want to make it clear that no-one is trying to do anything illegal and if it does come out to infring on their licensing agreement then it just won't happen.

Just wanted to get that all out in the open.:cheers:

 

Hey I already paid my $315 for EASE so it really doesn't affect me, but I don't want to see somebody else have to spend $400 because lots of other people start getting this idea.

 

well yeah I guess there is that school of thought and there is the one that it may drive pricing down as well.

If its within the licensing agreement then it should not be a problem. The example of the shop that uses EASE to run their diagnostics on customers cars is a perfect one. They do not and are not required to charge/pay 315 dollars for each customer.

Not trying to cause anyone any hard ache, thought it would be a good idea and one that many here could benefit from. Also there is another method of thought that EASE could consider. ALOT of these people when they see how neat the software is, how ease it is to use etc. They will probably get a TON of sales off of it when the people have to send it back. Guess that is along the lines of trial software. ;)

Many different ways to look at it. If you want to find the negative things then I'm sure you can. Guess I am more of a positive outlook sorta person and thought it would be helpful to so many here. :cheers:

 

I like to look for the bad in all situations and rid of it. A devil's advocate you may say. Once the bad is gone there is only good. This approach to life has helped me many times.

 

any other thoughts/ideas :cheers:

 

Sounds good.
:rolleyes:

 

The TL1000 forum does this with the Yoshimura tuner box. It's always checked out and hard to get, but it works, and has saved many people a lot of money. check how they do it at http://www.tl1000.com

I'm pretty sure they still do it, I just ended up bying a power-commander for mine so I never paid too much attention to it.

 

Sounds like you and your buddies really skirt the forum rules about supporting vendors.

 

How do you figure? :confused:

 

He comes here selling chips and manifolds to members who would never know him if not for the forum taking avalable dollars away from paying vendors. This small group is always looking to get a buck out of members without paying their support.

 

I'm for the idea of renting out a wide band O2 sensor for those who need to borrow one for tuning, but can't justify the need to buy one.

 

Personally, I think you're way out of line. From my experience, the few measly bucks Jesse might make on a chip here and there doesn't even come close to fair or adequate compensation for the extensive help and advice that he and "his small group" provide for free. Besides, from what I can tell, this is nowhere near being any kind of primary business for him and he doesn't hold himself out to the general public as a "vendor" of services and never has.

 

Not Stock,

When I started doing the chips it was initially for free, and the guys wanted to pay me something for my time. It does take a considerable amount of time to come up with GOOD tunes that WORK on these cars.

I have been doing the chips for member that contact me. You will be hard pressed to ever see me suggest one of my own chips to someone publically on the forum. I am sure there are some here that are crack mechanics that help out buddies. Should they not help them out since they are not a suporting member? How about the Sale/Wanted sections.

I do these chips to help out member and give them a low cost option to go to from someone that knows these cars inside and out. If becoming a supporting member is something that needs to be done, then sign me up. I honestly never thought about it that way. In a way I think all the people here that contribute in a meaningful manner, helping others out, are supporting members.

If Mojo or someone else would like to let me know about how to become a member if its necessary, then so be it. Not a big deal.

As for the laptop/logging scenerio. Again it was another case of talking to countless member on their problems on my own time, on the forum and through emails/IM that led me to think of this option for them.

Anyone that knows me, knows I am a person with good intentions for the people here and the forum itself. Are you willing to put up your time and invest your money to make something like the laptop/logging idea work? Are you here day in day out helping people with thier problems?

And the intake I tested, I am not collecting one red cent from that. In fact trying to test it and bring the results to the forum here last year I missed the best weekend of racing all year long as a result. The DA dipped lower than it had all year and everyone went about .2 sec quicker. There went my shot at 10s I was after all year. But in the end, it WAS worth it if it helped someone out. Again, Jeb and I thought it would be a great alternative for people to have. Jeb is doing everything in his power to keep the cost rock bottom, but just like the chips. And your sadly mistaken if you think I need the money or am making a windfall or something off the chips. It take a considerable amount of time to make a good tune. Hell most people can't do it in person that have been doing it for years. "Most" people here do not want something for nothing. And no-one is twisting anyones arm to use this intake, my chips or participate in the laptop/logging deal.

Again I think anyone that has delt with me quickly realizes I am a person that is not just collecting some money. Hell I just agreed to fly out to Utah to help a guy out with his car if he wants to persue that route. I don't think there are many people here willing to help others out that much.

I believe that everyone here will agree that the members of a site make a site worthwhile, not the advertisers. Granted their contributions are greatly appreciated. At the end of the day, if you need a dollar to consider me a "supporting" member. Then just let me know. :cheers:


[Modified by ski_dwn_it, 9:08 AM 2/27/2004]


[Modified by ski_dwn_it, 9:19 AM 2/27/2004]

 

I think there is too much risk with renting out a laptop, and shipping it around too. Plus you might get ripped off by someone. If nothing else, rent the hookup and all. But not a laptop. Most people have access to laptops anyways. I know you want to make things easier for other people, and it is a very cool thought, but someone will eventually take advantage of that, and rip you off. Hope this helps.
:cheers:

 

You can't really knock him on all of it though. If I put that I had 5 of the same parts for sale Mojo would have to lock it because it is considered a business sale if someone has a lot of 1 thing and I'm ont a vendor. Just an example.

 

Scorp.

You are missing the entire point of this thread. It was to provide the people here with means of extracting needed data in times of hardship. Even you can appreciate that, having all the problems you have had in the recent past. If there was something out there available to ease some of those problems, like a local guy offering a towing service and a rack you could rent over the winter to put your car back together at rock bottom prices. Would have to taken advantage of it? I think we all know the answer to that. Would have you had a problem with paying a small fee for what would have cost you hundreds or thousands of dollars?

As I said before - I never posted threads advertised my chips here on the forum. People have come back with VERY nice replies and talked about their experiences with me and the way their cars have run afterwards. That is it. So I do not know where your example above came from. And for that matter I have seen you offering to do chips for people yourself. How is that any different?

Clearly you have taken acception to my efforts here and have a different point of view. Instead of airing your dirty laundry here in public, your more than welcome to send me an email with your concerns.

As I clearly stated before in this thread, its not about making money on a laptop or anything of that nature. Hell as many here stated, i will probably wind up getting ripped off in the end and loosing a few hundred dollars. But if it helps out 10 people I figure its worth it and maybe by then the small amount of rental fee money will pay off MY expense and my time. If that is not donating to the forum, I don't know what is. Hell even with my tuning I have posted HOW TOs on the tuning section describing in detail how to tune certain aspects of car to help people. If I was out to make a buck, that wouldn't be real smart now would it? Also have always given direction and help to those getting into tuning on their own.

As I said before. There are always some that point out the bad in everything. Perhaps they should be the ones under the magnifying glass. ;)


[Modified by ski_dwn_it, 12:01 PM 2/27/2004]

 

geez is it a full moon or what? It seem here lately that a lot of people on this board are in a pissy mood lately....

for what it is worth ski i just bouagt a Fujitsu Tablet PC on ebay last night for 31 bucks you should look at those. I am going to permenantly mount this in my car. yeah i know i am a geek but hey i want one of those flameball shifters too heheheh

but any way dudez... chill out have a nice cold beer this weekend or something.. you guys are giving me a headache

 

Scorp, do really believe that Jesse's intent here is to make money? BTW, where and what are the official guidelines for determining vendor status? I looked in the Advertising section as well as the FAQs but couldn't find anything...

 

I'm not missing anything at all. I voiced my opinion and that is all. Its spawning into multiple discussions, thats all. Deal with it. I'm always out to help anyone and everyone, everybody knows that.