The Canton Road Race pan has a removable windage tray. The LT1 / LT4 has some kind of windage screen on the main bolts from the factory.

Do they interfere with each other, which one do you ditch? Also the canton says it has a built in crank scraper. Any special modifications required here?

I know most people running this pan are probably doing so on a less than stock bottom end. Any expereince on exactly what must be done with a stock rotating assembly.

Also what about the dipstick? I've heard it doesn't work properly with the canton pan.

I had a ton of fun on the autocross course Saturday but I get the feeling this pan wouldn't be a bad idea if I keep doing stuff like that.

 

Nathon, glad you enjoyed the AX - you'll get hooked.

Canton pan - remove the factory windage tray and use the one that comes with the Canton. It's a "one-way" screen and a better design than the stock one. To remove the factory one, you need to pull the studs that hold it and replace with regular cap bolts. I suggest one-at-a-time :D Other "possible" installation issues:

1. May have to remove a tiny bit (do the minimum) of the pan lip to clear the knock sensor on LT1/LT4 blocks. I didn't, but some have said they did.
2. May have to remove a small amount of the pan lip if using a remote oil cooler adapter on the filter boss of a L98 block. I have experienced this.
3. Dip stick will not read correctly.
4. Remove the plug in the top of the driver's side kick-out of the pan. Add teflon tape and reinstall so it doesn't leak!

Dipstick procedure: Fill your oil filter "absolutely completely full" & install. Add seven quarts of oil. Run engine & check the oil level on the dipstick. Mark the new "full" point. I found it to be about half-way between full/add marks on both a L98 & LT4.

BTW, with my remote oil cooler, I actually use an additional half-quart of oil to keep the pan oil level where it's supposed to be when the engine is running. So, with filter, I take 8 quarts total. I ran it until full, then pulled the lower line & drained it to measure how much would be in the lines & cooler while running.

Good luck, Paul :flag


[Modified by NavyVet, 12:50 PM 4/12/2004]

 

Thanks for the quick response!

Sounds pretty straightforward, a few other questions.

The dipstick, why exactly doesn't it work? I've heard it's because it hits the windage tray, or is it because the pan is a little lower and hence the oil level is actually a little bit lower?

Second is the oil pump & pickup. Do you use the stock pickup or do you have to use a pickup specifically for this pan? Secondly would it be worthwhile to replace the pump while at it? I'm looking at Racenet and they sell a whole bunch of stuff, canton oil pump driveshaft, canton pump, canton pickup, etc.

What do I really need?

 

Nathon, I can't remember where I bought mine, but I'll check my receipts folder tonight and let you know. I bought a pump with mine. You can use the stock pump but you should relocate the pickup to be approximatley 1/8" off teh bottom and then bolt/tack weld it. The package I bought came with a Melling blue-printed HV (not High Pressure) LT4-type pump. It included a modfiied pickup that is bolted in palce and matched to the correct depth for the pan. Note, I have had bad experience with the HP pumps tearing up the pump drive gears where they mesh with the cam.

The reason for the level change on the dipstick is what you said - different pan. Their pan is designed for 7 quarts (not counting cooler, filter etc.) and it is much wider and a bit shallower. So, with their windage screen above the oil (so it doesn't "pull up and hit the crank") and the kickouts, it's level is different on the dipstick. If you overfill, the oil level is above the windage screen - defeating its purpose. The capacity is designed to be enough to keep the pump pickup from sucking air at all times - even during sustained high RPM periods when more oil is in the block/heads. The capacity, kickout trap doors, scraper, and screen work together to accomplish this. :flag

 

you will definitely need the special canton pickup matched to the pan. i would highly suggest keeping the stock oil pump, although you will have to remove it in order to remove the old and install the new pickup properly.

here are a couple of threads with good info buried in between:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=767243
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=791019

-michael

 

Cool, thanks for the info all.

I've heard horror stories of high volume pumps. I know one friend had a high volume pump and a standard oil pan. He was running the Silverstate Classic at about 160 MPH when he drained his pan an roasted his motor.

Even with the bigger pan I wouldn't feel good about a high volume pump, but that's just me! My oil pressure at WOT is plenty for me to feel comfortable with as well.

 

i don't think the HV pumps are literally sucking the pan dry. for one, assuming the same bypass setting for pressure, the final flow amount (out of the pan and into the pump) is exactly the same as a standard volume pump for the same oil pressure. any extra amount of flow induced by the larger pump gears is internally bypassed from outlet to inlet.

i think what happens (in some cases) is that the pump is cavitating at high rpm. some odd combination or maybe "harmonics" in the fluid flow wave functions make for partial cavitation in such a way that the bypass valve doesn't close back up, and pressure starts dropping, and oil from the pan isn't making it to the pump consistently. something just weird happening in how much the pump is trying to flow through the bypass coupled with what's happening in the pickup tube. (note that there are also larger than stock diameter pickup tubes to work with pumps that have larger inlet holes, so someone somewhere is aware of some cavitation issues.)

because i've seen too many cases where a HV pump performed flawlessly, even with a stock pan and low oil level, then i've seen cases where a SV pump had problems even with large sump pans. i think it's something other than a case where the pan is being emptied. it could even be a case of the pickup tube being too close to the bottom of the pan, or it could be windage issues causing some foaming of the oil, or any number of other possibilities.

don't get me wrong, i'm not pro HV pump. if a SV pump keeps up with the engine's flow demands, there are plenty of reasons not to use a HV pump.

-michael

 

Nathan,
Just in case you didn't know you can buy directly from Canton.
I don't know who has the best price but at least they can give you accurate
technical assistance about their products.
Phone #203 481 9943

 

Cool, thanks for the heads up! :cheers:

 

I know too many guys that run road courses that have had nightmare experiences with the HV pumps. They are probably fine for the 1/4 mile, but they suck the pan dry and fill up the top of your heads and valvecovers. You may want to consider the 10% over, variable pressure pump.

 

Personally I'm fine with the stock pump. Like I said it keeps good oil pressure and seems to flow enough. I'm just intrested in the bigger pan and all the baffles to keep the pickup covered at all times. I'd hate to starve my engine of oil because I was having too much fun running around the cones, or doing something foolish.

 

I ordered mine from a company in Tennessee (that I can't think of at the moment) for $275, but I believe Racernet sells it for the same price. I also went with the 10%V pump that h rocks is talking about (Melling 10552) and the 20-079 3/4" pickup.

You may want to consider a new oil pump drive shaft (AC Delco 1103868) and the More Performance oil pressure saver ($17).

Mike

 

Canton sells a new drive shaft that is supposed to be better than the OEM. What's the oil pressure saver?

 

From MORE's website:

Used to prevent the oil pump drive assembly from coming loose/breaking and loosing oil pressure. Includes steel retaining plate, grade 8 fastener and instructions. Oil pump drive sold separately.



Mike

 

how did you make that work? the 20-079 pickup is a press-in job, and the 10552 requires the bolt-on pickup. it also doesn't have a 3/4" inlet.

according to canton there doesn't exist a pickup to use the new melling pumps with the bolt-on pickups in their 240T pan. if you figured it out, let us know!

thanks.

-michael

 

Hi Michael,

John hasn't put it together yet, but this is what the Melling guy told me. He said the 10552 requires the same pickup as the Melling #M155HV, which is the 20-079. He said it has a 3/4" inlet on it, and can be pressed in or tacked on.

Canton said they needed to make a custom pickup for this pump, but that's what the guy at Melling told me. John should be getting to this by the weekend... I'll let you know the outcome.

Mike

 

mike, sorry to break this, but the melling guy you talked to must have been confused. i bought the same 10552 melling but could not get it to work. that 3/4" pickup goes into a 19mm inlet on the pump, and the 10522 does not have that.

it also appears the cover is different, such that the bolt-on tab for the pickup might not work. since i could not get the pickup in place, i can't be sure on that, though.

if you guys figure it out, let me know. i bought my 10552 when they very first came out, it could be that melling has changed them since then.

-michael

 

Nathan make sure you have enough clearence between the crank scraper and the crank. I installed my pan and thought I had plenty of clearance bu as soon as I started the car highly recomend you check it.

 

I'd certainly turn the motor over by hand a few times before I fired it up.

 

I think folks are loosing too much sleep over the oiling system...:)

I stuck the Canton on my stock bottom end LT4...pulled the stock pan, hacked off the tree factory windage tray studs and tray, untapped the stock pickup, tapped the Canton pickup on and then bolted it on with using one of the oil pump end cap bolts, insured the dipstick hole was unobstructed on the windage tray, bolted it on and let it rip.

I never removed the oil pump. The new pickup is quite robust and I would find it difficult to modify it for height-but yes I did check the height with clay and it was acceptable.

My 3.75 in SCAT crank did hit the rods to crank scraper...bolted the pan on and spun the engine over several times...pulled the pan and ground the shiney marks...:)

I've used the pan for 15,000 hard miles...works for me...with 7 quarts total in the system (for instance I add 7 quarts when I do a oil change)

And the best place to buy it is Full Throttle at the above phone number...

:D