I was perusing the other sites for some reading, after reading some of the more serious sites, where most of the guys are running 10 or less, I decided to hit the always laughable TGO - DIY tuners section.

Where I am always happy to still find post about my setups and references to my posts that brought much controversy, to the point of which led to the mods absolutely hating me to the point of banning me and corky.

As a matter of fact, the banning came last year when I mentioned that I tuned Hooked Ups car and it went a new best of 10.0@133, on 30# injectors. Mind you this is the group that thinks you need 36+# injectrors and SD to go in the 12s, yet only 1 or 2 of them actually have gone 12s. lol.

They, I guess, got to the point of not being able to explain corky and I's success and decided instead of taking notes that damage to their own "Lack of tuning abilities" was being exposed and just banned us without cause.

We laughted about it and still do nearly every time one of us go that much quicker. We go back, as I did tonight to see the goofs still talking about going fast while we continually keep going quicker and quicker.

Tonight I find a bashing thread to my laughter in regards to the DIY tuning article recently shown in CHP. Now they all hate CHP magazine. The starter of the thread only emailed me for 1 year asking/begging me for my help in tuning his car, which I did offer much help, but he then pulled a 180 on me, at which time I said and good luck. Now I see he's, not to my surprise, still searching for that tune.

In the thread, which they bash me and others, they talk about static injectors we supposedly had on our 406s.

Hmmmmm if I was still on the board, and maybe that is why they hated me I would ask very simply.....wonder if they can explain Corky multiple 10.5X tongiht on 24# injectors with this new setup?

Or both of our setups running quicker than they have ever dreamed of going in a full weight car.

Or how about, this is best of all since most of them are running 383, and one of their *best* running thirdgens they have over there went 11.5 ---what I am talking about is Jim's 383 which I tuned and Corky did the motor in. Yeah he's only running 11.1X @121MPH with 24# injectors and my tune. Damn I can see how they draw the conclusion I/ we don't have a clue.

Am I the only one on this planet that feels scared at times that people like this are among us? I mean how can one sit there and say, I can tune better, I can build better - yet can't put out results even better than the average equal setup?

Is there something wrong with that logic, or do I just have a different outlook on life?

Let again look at Jims car. 383/SR/MAF/AFR heads. Running 11.1X@121 on the same night as bigger CI motors running SD/MR/AFR setups are running 11.3s on better 60' times. You would think the lightbulb would go off.

Or better yet. Guys over there stating the above that has (get this) Twin Turbo on a big inch motor, running 14sec quarter miles. If I had a car running with that equipment the VERY last thing I would do is point a finger at someones elses ability. Instead I would use that energy to find a new hobby.

I guess I am doing a reality check, sort-of a pinch me test to make sure that this is all still reality. Guys am I still in Kansas? Or have Toto and I wondered off to where what is reality doesn't really matter.

I know this thread is really out there, but I guess the moral or point of it is, whatever to do in this sport. Use a little common sense. Do what works for others, unless your a maverick with alot of cash and can afford to make grave mistakes.

If you read the other post I did tonight, about the local drags, even "puffy chest" realized that there are lessons to be learned. And asked MANY very good questions to me while we waited in line. And I asked him his opinion on many things. Point being we can always learn something, but to take an ignorant stance and be blind to the obvious, is a recipe or disaster.

At the end of the day, these guys make my day every time I go over there and still see my username being posted in threads. Must mean that some still see the light. BUt even at that, they have gone as far as to change every time my username is mentioned to some other name. Like ski => SDI Childish I must say. Its sad to see some so unconfident that they stoop to those levels.

I am extremely please we have the forum we do, and that we can all share out ideas and throughts openly without intervention from mods trying to steer the peoples thoughts.

The above is exactly why I made it a point I wanted the Corvette Forum mentioned in the DIY Tuning article in Chevy High Performance.

Thanks for reading my thoughts. Some of it might sound like venting, but really its just my - "Common Sense Corner thoughts"

 

where do i go to read??? got a link ???

 

I totally agree. I learned along time ago that even though I have my own ideas and opionions, that you should always take the time to listen to what other people have to say and learn from other peoples sucesses. I guess that comes with age and experience(a few brain cells helps too ). I think you are a great help to this forum and that 99.8% of the rest of the forum members are also great help. Everyone seems to try to help each other out to the best of their knowledge. I'm not trying to rag on the Camaro forums(I also go there) but only 10% of their users have any useful input. The rest of them seem to pull answers out of their aXX. The quality of the members of this and other forums is what makes them great. The NSX forums also have a great group of people. It has alot of good, helpful people their also.

These forums are only as good as the people who use them....

 

I am unable to log into their site to pull urls.

But its over there. Like how they twist the thead around to make it look like I did no tuning for the article. I am sure this author, which I have never met in my life, would feel obligated to put my name in the article if I did not help.

And how countless people on here report great feedback on their tunes they get.

I honestly think it just baffles the heck out of them that I CAN and DO tunes from distance better than they can do in person on their own rides.

What further backs this conclusion is a friend of corky's had his car done by one of the individuals on that post. After countless tunes the car ran a best of 14.xx. Mind you this was a motor corky ran to a best of 11.7 when it was in his car. I took on the job of tuning it and he recently went 12.2sec first time out with it after getting the tune. He will see 11s by the end of the year when the weather gets better.

BUt they continue to point finger without realization that 3 are pointing back at them.


You would think they would want some people on there with some success stories to help them out. But they are led by a few that take others success as a personal violation.

What baffles me even more, are the "big talkers" NEVER post their ETs or dyno or any conclusive proof of their success. Wouldn't you think after awhile, someone would ask them for credentials. OH YEAH, thats right that was me, and I was ban.

But seriously, if I was into bicycle racing I would talk to the guys that are kickin the crap out of me at every race. Or Wrestling, the same thing. I sure as heck would not tell them I they don't know what they are talking about. Moreover I would not ban them from a site I was starting to discuss techniques of the above sports. I would want as many winners as I could pack in. But they are like the cattle over in Africa that follow the lead bull in a stampeed right off the highest cliff.

SAD BUT TRUE

 

:I agree:

Jesse, you helped me on some questions (SR/injectors) I had a while ago, and probably will soon on a new chip (still working on that motor for the chip though)

And Chris just recently sent me pics of his oil pan, well now, my oil pan too. And some tips on how to cut for the dipstick and all that jazz. Just awesome!

 

First I want to say that the Corvette Forum is the greatest resource and it is full of knowledgeable people who are always up to listen to what everyone else has to say. I first joined when I needed some help and had some extra parts to get rid of that I wanted to make sure ended up in a good home. We have 3 Corvettes in the family, although I am sure that number will grow, but I have always had a thing for Camaros. I got my first one the other day, 1979 Z28, so I have been checking out some Camaro forums, but didn't really like what I saw. I had my sister's Camaro, '95 Z28, in my shop this summer and I had some issues with the motor. I got no useful info. from any Camaro owners, but after posting the thread here, I had the problem figured out the next day with all the helpful info I received from Corvette Forum.

 

As a TGO member (V6 section mainly) I can't believe they banned you. I have stumbled across some of your posts in the archives and it is interesting to see how out of control things got. The injector size and MAF vs. SD debates were fun to read.

Having read many of those old post I would not say both sides are completely blameless because many of the disputed topics were mostly opinion.

 

Jesse just a heads up. Were going to Numedia next Sunday 8/22. We were going today but since the weather morons said the hurrican was coming through we canceled. (Now it's not going to rain a drop )

 

I am dealing with a shop here that believes in the "smaller" injectors too. I was running 2002 Z06 28.8 lbs injectors on my 350 ci LT4. Now I am building a 383 and they said that those injectors will support 600 fwhp "all day long". That shop is known for producing some suprising performance too.

 

Rich thanks for the heads up! Saw your post that you guys were heading over there this weekend. BUt I wanted to run the local drag races here. Next weekend I might be booked up for racing. Last night at about 1am Corky and I sorta set plans to race Friday night at Keystone, then stay over and race Saturday also. To run to the other side of the state for Sunday might be pushing my luck with the wife

But I will definately keep it as a plan B if the weather doesn't co-operate.

I really liked that Numidia Track. Its clean and a good ET track. Perhaps if I can't make it this weekend, a bunch of us could meet up over there at a later date.

ericcer,

I would agree with their comments whole heartedly. And its not surprising they put out some performance products.

That is what makes me so disguisted over there at the TGO. These guys swear up and down that we are static, yet corky gains over 70 more HP with this new setup using the same 4 year old 24# injectors.

I guess what really set the stage over there for them not liking us was the ring leaders view of MAF, stating it can't support more than 350 rwhp. ANd they still take that stance, yet many people have setups running much quicker than 350rwhp supported ETs.

I did test after test with the SD vs MAF system, and my setup running 10.7@128+ MPH runs better on the SD system with the MAF tube intact.

Professor, you are right...both sides are entitled to their opinions. However, with respect to my opinion, it was always backed up with track ETs, and Dyno results. NOT ECM test benches.

I mean listen to one of their arguements. The one guy is 100% ECM test bench driven. For those of you that do not know what a test bench is, its a ECM basically connected to a control panel that you can manually adjust ***** that simulate different sensors in your car. You can adjust different ***** to see interactions/results from other sensors/output.

Now get this. Their examples of results are stating that at over 80% Duty Cycle the injectors start to click and make all sorts of noise, and get hot. No disputing that probably happens. However, when I asked them if they might have considered the possibility they are making noise and getting hot was due to the fact their was NO FUEL going through them like in a real world setup. They called me an idiot, and proclaimed that this was 100% accurate testing.

My entire take on that place over there is a bunch of 13-17 year old kids with little more than a bad attitude with ZERO clue of what it actually takes. They are merely keyboard stabbers with ideas of grandure what will NEVER be realized.

The starter of the thread over there, 11orbust, (perfect name)...he built a 406CI motor and has been tuning it for over a year now, and following the directions of others there. Anyone want to bet that 85vet's (Jim's) 383-MAF we have isn' running over a 1 sec quicker than his perfectly tuned machine..

Its not too wise to throw stones, when you live in a glass house.


I have to also laugh how there are threads popping up over there surrounding the use of a single plane intake after jeb and I built/tested the one last year on my 406.

 

Jesse,
Just read the post in thirdgen under tuning. There is no question that those boys do not like to be proved wrong. I also noticed that car info is posted, but no times. I wonder why????

Just a little correction - my best time was 11.278 @ 121.70
and I do shift my auto manually!!!

 

those guys over at thirdgen are mostly a bunch of punk boys who do not have a clue on how to go fast period

 

and another thing about the thirdgen board is the moderators are letting them guys bash jesses name with out a rebuttal because they banned him so it just gos to show you what kind of garbage forum it really is

 

people are afraid of what they don't understand and their lack of confidence only forces them to attack something that tells them how things are done.

F them. Let em suffer.

Just proves they have their head up their azzes. Your work speaks for itself with the numbers to back it. Screw em.....

 

This was one part of their arguing that I never quite understood. If the timing and A/F are right and the manifold has no vacuum at WOT (ie no flow restriction outside of intake) then how can anything be wrong? Heck, my Dad's 86 383 puts down 360+ rwhp with a very poorly tuned LPE chip. Go figure.

Your idea about the injectors "sounding funny" w/o fuel makes sense. It would be interesting to redo the tests using some fluid (less dangerous than gas) to see it things smooth out. Hmmm...

I hardly spend any time over at TGO anymore because this board seems to be a bit more "mature" in that heated discussions tend not to digress into pissing contests - at least not for a while. Over there it only takes about 5 posts before a controversial topic is hijacked.

 

I am a firm believer in learning from others mistakes. I don't have money to burn. I used the knowledge of several "big dogs" on this forum to put together my combo. When I first joined the gym 12 years ago I didn't go ask the smaller guys what they did in their workouts. I went staight to the big boys and asked them for pointers. Now I am 108 lbs over my starting weight of 165 ( 273lbs) with a 34" waist. When I compete I come down to 235 with a 29" waist. Could never have gotten my car or my body this far without the help of those before me.

 

JIm. Thanks for the correction, my bad I misunderstood corky last night. It was 1am and I was beat. Thought he said you went teens. At any rate I think you faster than the the car they refer to in the post over there, and ran quicker! And to clarify for those reading the post, the gentleman they refer to NEVER went quicker than cork or I with his setup.

Nor was my motor damaged in any way shape or form. I have been in close contact with Jason that bought it and he's putting it back exactly the way I had it. I expect it will run EVERY bit as strong as it did when I had it.

You guys are right, these boys don't like being told that they are wrong. Like telling my 3 yr old he's wrong for doing something. First thing they do is cry bloody murder.

Cork brings up a very good point which I could not stand the TGO for. They allow their mods to bash people openly when it fits their agenda. When someone like corky or myself point out facts we live and breath with - they ban you.

To take it a step further, wonder if they are familiar with the phase "Defamation of Character". Perhaps I should put that retainer I just paid to good use for something. The employment contract he just reviewed for me was hardly worth the cost I paid. He did say, call anytime if I need anything

But if you look at the entire picture is is pretty damn funny. It basically boils down to a bunch of talk, and nothing to back it up with.

Bam92, I couldn't agree more. 273lbs - glad your on my side

 

I haven't been over to TGO in awhile... Most of them don't even know me; I usually just used it as a resource to sell parts. I've seen a few of the BS threads and flame wars over there before and tend to just stay away. I like CF and the only other site that comes close to it for my tastes is turbobuick.com but since I don't have my GN anymore I don't go there as often.

I'll have to go over there and look at the single plane threads... A friend on there was telling me that they were all talking about my SP back when it was first coming up...Wait til they see the tunnel ram.
-Jeb

 

Jesse ya gotta go to where they race and pick one of their cars and take your tuning equip with and work your magic. Let him go run it and see which ET is better then just walk away and not say a thing. I would love to have a michrophone in the middle of that group after that

 

I just registered on the site just so I could post to that thread