I'm not disputing that his chips are better than stock, generally.This is what I can do to prove my point. If you live close to stl I'll meet you, hook up my diagnostic software and wideband. I'll show you how the tune is off and explain why. Even better, I'll fix the weak calibration for free and I'm 100% sure it'll dyno higher and run better. I can even post the data here as final proof that mailorder chips (even by Jesse) is snake oil.

So corky, why is it that you and Ski thinks too large of injectors will make performance drop?

 

You are still missing the point. They dont think too large of an injector will hurt performance. I'm running 36lb injectors and I know those are bigger than I need right now but I wanted room to grow into a supercharger. But the #24Ford injectors they run flow 27lbs@43.5psi and @50psi flow around 32lbs. Thats plenty of fuel to make 550+hp so why go bigger when those are sized just right.

 

eairler in this thread some one said the TGO is a bunch of 16-18yr old keyboard jockeys or something to that effect. Well you can't classify Everyone into that classifaction. I am a member here and on TGO. I have had Several Camaros into the 12s with a 383 Stroker I lost the car in a Divorce. Now This is my first stab at Going At it with Fuel Injection. I am 26yr old and i go anywhere Where I can get information and Then Try it for my self and form my own conclusion.

 

Go where the info is that you are looking for. Thats what these forums are for, to help each other out. Not all the guys on the TGO are young, but the ones that make the most noise usually are.

 

He goes by kvu here

 

OK. Lets get some facts straight first KVU / 11sorBust.

First of all, Character check on you. You talk about my banning at the TGO. You where banned about 9 times from there. Then you resorted to sending Glen's email to all sorts of **** sights, threating Trax with violance and all sorts of stuff.

Second, you begged me for one of my proms to run in your 406 to get in the 11s with, but after all those episodes, I did not respond to your emails anymore. There were 20-30 that you sent me that were immediately deleted, as I do not stand for those sorts of tactics.

So with that being said I can see why the article put so much jealousy in the hearts of all you tuning gods over at the DIY section.

As for your bet - I view you as the ricer that pulls up beside me on the street with his fart can revving wanting to race. I normally just give a and take the next turnoff that is available to distance myself from a disaster waiting to happen. If I am approached later that I did not race, I then encourage them to show at the local drags and we can settle it where its suppose to happen. Like that approach, I will ask you to get your car even close to the 11s and I will entertain the thought. Until then, don't make a fool of yourself and your tuning ability. I have 10+ cars I have tuned from distance, that ALL run in the low 11s to bottom 10s - as someone pointed out - the proof is in the client base and RESULTS. NOT TALK.

Your facts are SO clouded by your desire to even come close to what we are doing EVERY weekend - that you are actually starting to believe yourself. For instance in your post over there you proclaimed that 87TA's car went 6+ MPH to my 406. REALLY? The BEST his car ever ran was 125MPH. And it NEVER hit our ETs even on a perfect DA weather day, much better than Corky and I ever ran in. The threads are here to and the proof is right there if you care to see it.

Furthermore, that is it with you guys and this tuning cult? You guys act like the DIY tuning is the most sacred aspect of running a car. Let me ask, what makes the tuning of a car any different than putting a cam in? Why isn't it required if your going to build and race a car, that you have to grind your own cam, or your a slacker?

I will tell you why you guys take such great acception. Because you guys fiddle and prod around for years trying to do what I can from a distance.

And lastly, your questions of how many people are coming to my site after the article. TONS, things could not be better as a matter-of- fact. But its not because of the article people come - its because of the RESULTS. Something you and the others over there lack, and why no-one that has 1/2 a brain will listen to you guys.

Suppose now me and the rest of the people can get our email spam catcher all revved up for the **** links to start coming in right? But before that happens, let me tell you it will not happen without legal repercussions. So think long and hard before you make that choice again.

Take the time and effort that will take to do to tune your big 406 for 11s. Then we will line it up against Jim's 383 (that I did a distance tune for) and you can see how it stands up.

 

no need to get that worked up.

 

I did get banned there. I did a few things that was wrong. I admited it and accepted the responsibility for my actions. Nobody there has hard feelings towards me. Too bad it's not going to happen for you. That's because you violated an unspoken creed, and you know it. It's a diy site you stole the information from. I say stole because you are trying to turn it into a cash cow. At least I can say that everyone at diy-prom respects me.

Great story pal, one problem though. I have speed density. I had SD for a long time. Even when I asked you for your chip. I wanted to look at it, that is true. Use it for my car, I don't think so.


Come to st louis and you'll get tore up from the floor up. There is nothing but 10 second street cars. I have plenty of guys that'll smoke you. Like my buddy running 9.89Et's and it's a full street car. Might have a cage but it also has everything else. Step up or shut up. Drag Racing is one aspect of automotive performance.


Where did I say that? I said his MPH exceeded yours. That is true. We all know that higher trap speeds mean he was making more power.


I'm going to put thing like this. Just because your car ran 10's doesn't mean you know how to tune. At the same token, you can't tell me I don't know how to tune because of my car's ET. That's like saying a nascar engine tech doesn't know about going fast because his personal car is not a race car. Life doesn't work like that, WAKE UP!


Now tell me how too big of injectors will reduce performance? This should be good! Or will you try to deny that you even said that. I have 1+ years of your bogus post to prove my point.

 

I've been a long time TGO reader, mainly because I've had an IROC for two years. Most of the time I've stayed away from the DIY tuning boards because I've not been able to afford anything that warrants a tune. The thing I try to remember when I notice the amount of idiocy and immaturity rising is that, the crowd that owns thirdgens are for the most part, much younger than the guys who own vettes. Age has something to do with the cockiness/puffy chested/won't back down or give in. I don't think it's right, but they'll have to grow up eventually, maybe by getting romped on at the track by a 406 in the tens?

 

 

Stole the information huh? No I disagree with about 99% of the information over there, isn't that what this is all about? Come on, get the story staight. It would help the arguement your trying to make.

Anyone that has ever done 1 bit of tuning knows its 99% experience and understand of motors that makes a good tune. But I wouldn't expect you to understand that.

As for you always having SD, your a liar plain and simple. You used to post all sorts of garbage about trying to run your car without the sensor and all sorts of stuff. "MAFless in St Louis", ring a bell? But its your story, tell it how you like.

We are not talking about your supposed "Friends" car, we are all wonding why you can't get a 400 and 6 Cubic inch motor in the 11s? That is so pathetic its sad. But I'm sure your holding back right. I only offered for you to run Jims car, since it might be feasible for you to actually run that quick with more motor. I will gladly extend the offer to race me or Corky. We will even spot you 3 car lengths and let me wife drive the car in "Drive".

And refering to your last sentence about the "everyone at the DIY_section repects you".....I am very pleased to hear that because that is about the only place right now your getting any respect, cause you aren't going to get any here, and you sure as heck aren't going to get any on the strip. Nor will I doubt any magazine authors will be contacting you soon since they like many of us, base everything on RESULTS Now go back to your comfort zone where everyone talks about going fast and no-one every questions anyone about ET slips or Dyno results.

 

So, let me get this straight dude... You're calling down a storm on yourself by proclaiming that you know more than Jesse or Corky, that you're tuning is better, yada-yada-yada; yet you're still running 882's on your badazz 406??

Look chief, I'm one of the nicest people on this board and also probably one of the more experienced... I've spent the last 10 years building everything from street engines to Pro Stock mills, tuning EFI systems, and doing fab work. Ask anyone on here... I respect Jesse and Corky's abilities considerably; unlike a great number of people in this hobby they actually race, log their data, and do something useful with it. And they PROVE it for all to see. I don't always agree with them on certain issues (the injector size debate is one I'm still a fence sitter on but mainly because I tune with stand-alones and I feel there is some discrepency between smaller injectors and larger ones with them); but I respect the data they've provided. If you have some personal issue with either of them that's your business, but don't come on here crapping in everyone's mess kit until you have some hard data you're WILLING to put up yourself.
-Jeb Burnett, Pres.
Deep Freeze Cryogenics, LLC

 

Yes you did, and I'll prove it now. You disagree with 99% of the info over there, right. Well you are trying to cover up the fact that learned how to burn chips from the board. You learned what burner to buy, what software to use and how to make changes to the chip. That is diy-prom. I have personally gave you advice under my other user name KVU, over there, admit it. So keep trying to make yourself feel better about what you did.


You are wrong, wrong , wrong!!! First off, I never said that I always had SD. My formula came with a carb from the factory. I converted it to TPI myself. It was an 85 unit. So I ended up ditching the slow 870 ecm for the 165. About two years ago I switched to speed density/730. The mafless thread I pioneered was about my 86 trans am, not my formula. Get your facts straight. Yes, it's possible to have more than one car. I'm shocked that you acted like my friend yet you didn't even ay attention to what I was posting.


If you are wondering then just ask ME. I'm still building my car, it's not finished. Funny that you can't respect that I'm running faster than a stock C5 on a $1100 stock 406.

I'm sure people will respect me when I'm done with this thread. The offer is still up to meet someone that has a azzato chip, I'll even prove it on a dyno. If you want to go by dyno sheets then look at this one, my tune vs a junk custom mailorder. That's close to 50hp at the flywheel on a tpi car. Lets see a dyno sheet of one of your tunes, with the a/f ratio graphed.





Just admit you are not even close to an expert.

 

Uhh...I spray more nitrous than that dyno graph shows...
-Jeb

 

Quote:I'm sure people will respect me when I'm done with this thread.

Ahh, the fog starts to clear...

kvu, how tall are you?

 

 

With a comment like that I can tell you don't care to hear the truth. But that was a tpi car, custom tune vs mine. Let's see you do a better job

 

First off. The TGO is about the last place I would want to go to learn about chip burning, which is why I had a beef with the place to begin with. There are a bunch of hypocritical people there that *think* they know what they are doing. My tuning experience was learned in my 89 vette in stock form. I would also like to add that my 350 with 8 broken top rings, made 295rwhp...more than your dyno graphs shows on a sound motor. Real impressive numbers.

Secondly the TGO has a real ego/reality problem with realizing that 99.9% of the garbage they regurgitate is taken directly off the TurboGN boards where Grumpy your ring leader is a little pup over there that gets slapped around by the REAL tuners on a regular basis. But you guys see what you want to see. Open your eyes there is a whole world out here. When I called out Grumpy on his respewing of information off the TGN board....did he ever refute the claims. NO. Why because he KNEW I had proof that it was true. I kept it to myself however since I could really care less if that is what he's doing or not. It really only makes sense too if you look at the whole picture. He like you are running similiar setups as everyone else. His Grand national struggles to break the 13s. Mind you for those that do not know, this is with a turbo! Meanwhile corky and I have a friend that is running a stock bottom never touched motor in the 10s! Yeah I can see that the tuning ability is shining through.

I have no beef if people can't run 10 or 11s or 12s ect.... But if your going to shoot off your mouth, you better be able to produce some numbers that are at least better than the "average" setup that is equal to yours. But when you look at the numbers over there, they are GROSSLY off pace. This is coming from Saturn (twin turbo car = 14sec), Grumpy (turbo car =14sec), Your 406 (NOT 11s yet or you need a new username.) I mean com'on KVU, if I learned everything I know over there, the rest of you must have missed class a few times.

Wouldn't it dawn on a few of you guys to ask these guys WHY they run so much slower than other equal setups? That is all I am doing, but you guys twist it around to make it sound like you have to be going faster than I am to know something. Wrong, I just want to know why if you know and your abilities are so grand, why your cars are all so slow?

I beat c5s with my stock 350 - doesn't mean the people could drive them worth a snot and I know that is the ONLY reason I beat them. Your point of beating a C5 was what?

Lastly I find is VERY amusing that several of the people that bashed me in that thread over there ALSO burn chips for people and get money( but are too afraid to be ousted by the others to admit it). As a MATTER OF FACT, and if you like we can get Brian to come on here. Brian had one of your buddies do a chip for his 85/406 Very small hydraulic cam motor a few years ago. After countless tries the car would barely run, ran a best of 14s (this was a motor corky ran in one of his cars and it went 11.7s). Corky introduced me to brian, who at the time was about to sell his car from total disguist. Corky talked him into letting me give him a tune. With NOTHING else touched on the car, it went the VERY next time at the track 12.2sec! In the hands of Corky or myself I think it easily would have gone 11s, and Brian once he gets settled into the power, will also run those numbers. You see, its called results, not talk. Do yourself a search here and you will find MANY people that are grossly pleased with my tunes/help.

Also what you guys don't realize is the more "stink" you make over my chips, and people talk up....the more people want them. As a matter of fact, 2 people from your TGO have emailed me wanting to know more about them. Cause what others realize is I must be doing something right to get the attention of a writer that has absolutely NOTHING to gain by mentioning my name. So I must say thanks, and keep up the good work.

As I said before, its always pleasing to paruse through the TGO and see my name getting mentioned. I might be gone, but not forgotten. Wonder why I don't see people refering to 11sorbusts setups? One can only wonder.

oh yeah, and in regards your dyno graph. I could have done the same thing with that AFR you did, by turning up/down the pressure a few pounds or taking and equal amount of fuel in/out of the PE vs RPM table. ( for the rest of you, notice how the form of the curve is nearly exactly the same only moved up a little). VERY impressive stuff you show.

 

The 50hp I added to the flywheel was not just from the a/f ratio change. You have ASSumed something again.

This is your problem, not everybody is trying to run as fast as you. Who cares if your ring was broke and made similar power(as the car in the dyno graph)? It doesn't matter because the car was not built to put a roll cage in it or go blistering fast. It's making a lot more power than any stock tpi car. I'm going to put thing like this. Just because your car ran 10's doesn't mean you know how to tune. At the same token, you can't tell me I don't know how to tune because of my car's ET. That's like saying a nascar engine tech doesn't know about going fast because his personal car is not a race car. Life doesn't work like that, WAKE UP!


This is your problem, not everybody is trying to run as fast as you. Who cares if your ring was broke and made similar power(as the car in the dyno graph)? It doesn't matter because the car was not built to put a roll cage in it or go blistering fast. It's making a lot more power than any stock tpi car. I'm going to put thing like this. Just because your car ran 10's doesn't mean you know how to tune. At the same token, you can't tell me I don't know how to tune because of my car's ET. That's like saying a nascar engine tech doesn't know about going fast because his personal car is not a race car. Life doesn't work like that, WAKE UP!

 

Now that you understand that not everybody is trying to run fast as you, maybe you can tell me why you think an oversized injector will hurt performance. Let's hear it. And don't forget that I have plenty of your old material to draw from