Hey guys

I plan on taking the car to the dyno this week and spraying the car.
The only problem is I have no idea what my WOT timing is and I don’t feel safe spraying the car. The tuning was done by Jesse ski_dwn_it and the car runs great with the tune.

The base timing is set at 8* at 1000 RPM with the ECS not connected at 25* with it connected. When you connect the ECS does that show you the total advance

See on none computer car to set the total timing you just rev the car up to 2500 PRM and it shows you the total timing. Or is the total timing programmed in the chip

I was told to be safe you have to set the WOT timing at no more than 30* with nitrous. Its only a 150 shot what do you guys think I should set it at. I run 110 fuel in the nitrous cell and 100 in the cars tank.

thanks

 

If you are using a timing light with a dial you are looking at total timing; if using a scan tool I'm not sure it it's total or boost above base timing.

 

You can only see your total timing with a scan tool. I would bet your total timing is around 34 degs or at a max 36 degs with a base timing of 6 degs. With a base of 8 degs you just added 2 degs to your total. If you are worried about knock try reseting your base a 4 degs before you spray the NOS...Also with the race gas you should probably be ok.

 

i am not using the knock sensor . so should i set my base at 4* ??

 

Why are you not using the knock sensor?

 

i asked jesse to tune it out for me . i know its safer to run it with the knock sensor , but i was told that solid roller ans noise from the motor could set it of and i would lose power

 

Nick.

Assuming everything on your setup is correct.

At a base timing of 6* you have 34* advance at 3600+RPMs.

If you put the base at 8* you have 36*, if you put it at 4* you have 32*. Easy as that.

You can't do the revving it at 2500 in park, cause there is no load on the motor, so you will get some crazy timing like 42* or more.

The above is exacly what you should have. IF your going to spray it, I would take out at least 2* per 100 shot. If you want to be conservative, then 3* for the frst 100, and 2* for the next ones.

Timing on these car is pretty simple, just confused by many. In your case your adding 6* with the distributer, then the computer is adding the rest. If I told it 34 total, then the ECM just adds the difference between 34 and 6 = 28*. Easy as that.

Now if you put it at anything other than 6* the ECM doesn't know. Example. If you put it at 4*, the ECM is still going to only add 28* for a total timing of 32*.

Hope that helps.

 

If you disconnect your KS and if the ECM sees an error. Then then ECM will retard the timing accordingly. Therefore you would not realize the full performance potential of your engine.

I would suggest that you use a MSD Digital 6 or a similar ignition box that will allow a single spark retard input from your NOS system. This will keep your system safe, as you can dial in say 6 degrees of spark retard when the NOS fires. Also I suggest that you use a RPM window switch that will fire the NOS after X RPM and turns it off when the PRM exceeds X RPM. While you can use your finger to fire it manually after its armed and after the WOT switch is made. Using a RPM window switch is safer. Another safety interlock is the fuel pressure switch. It only allows the NOS system to fire when there is adequate fuel pressure.

Unless you know what is in your chip or if your chip programmer gave you a print out, you have no idea as to what your true total timing is.

 

They are for sissies No in all honestly they cause ALOT of problems for people especially with solid roller setups. Cars don't detonate and exploid instantly, infact I just read a very good article from a GM engineer that worked in dynos (on the Northstar project) and they claim a motor can live YEARs with detonation. Its obiously NOT good to run them like this, but an occasional knock or two is not going to ruin the motor. Predetonation is what kills motors instantly. That when the motor is down near BDC, when the AF mixture is easiest to ignite from a glowing carbon ember or Spark plug, the mixture starts to burn, hot gases expand- the piston is trying to come up, and heat soaks everything for a long period of time, and whaaaamo there goes your motor.

In the nutshell the knock sensor is NOT mandatory equipment. I have not had one for over 4 year on my setup. And NONE of the old cars had them - nor do any of the cars besides newer ones at the strips have them. Do you think John Force has one on his motor.....ok, maybe that is not a good analogy. But that would be funny to see. How many counts do you think he would get by the end of the track?

In all seriousness though, if you know what your looking for (plugs) and what to listen for and not go EXTREME on the timing end of things - you really do not need the KS.

 

They are for sissies No in all honestly they cause ALOT of problems for people especially with solid roller setups. Cars don't detonate and exploid instantly, infact I just read a very good article from a GM engineer that worked in dynos (on the Northstar project) and they claim a motor can live YEARs with detonation. Its obiously NOT good to run them like this, but an occasional knock or two is not going to ruin the motor. Predetonation is what kills motors instantly. That when the motor is down near BDC, when the AF mixture is easiest to ignite from a glowing carbon ember or Spark plug, the mixture starts to burn, hot gases expand- the piston is trying to come up, and heat soaks everything for a long period of time, and whaaaamo there goes your motor.

In the nutshell the knock sensor is NOT mandatory equipment. I have not had one for over 4 year on my setup. And NONE of the old cars had them - nor do any of the cars besides newer ones at the strips have them. Do you think John Force has one on his motor.....ok, maybe that is not a good analogy. But that would be funny to see. How many counts do you think he would get by the end of the track?

In all seriousness though, if you know what your looking for (plugs) and what to listen for and not go EXTREME on the timing end of things - you really do not need the KS.

 

yup that what i was looking for thanks alot jesse.

 

i got all that thanks for the help ..

 

Good info

 

Detonation / Preignition

Since Jesse mentioned the article I thought I'd add the link. One of the better pieces of reading I've come across lately.

 

 

nitrous is a little different !!! detonation from nitrous can be catastrophic..period. think about it, how many times you see a plug come out of a NA motor that has the entire electrode burned off from detonation ? NEVER. That being said I think it's best to leave the knock sensor set up while tuning and looking at plugs...#! answer read the plugs and start with safe timing. When i sprayed my computer controlled L-98 i started at 0 base, checked plugs and ET slips and went up 2 deg at a time. 6 showed detonation on a 150 shot and 93 octane for me. so i left it at 2.


be safe in the beginning, you can always add timing, it's more troublesome and expensive to replace head gaskets, pistons, etc...

Mike

BTW, share the #'s with us when you get the test done

 

red l98,

Your profile says you have a destroked 350...you running a 302 or something? What's your setup?

 

its a joke its a 434

 

so do you tell people this , for real