BlackMagicC5,

I think there are some (a few individuals & non vendor related) here on the Forum that just wanted to stir up controversy. As I have said before, Synergy just wants to provide what we think is the best.

Human nature. I really want to see what the other guys have to offer as well and give them every opportunity to present their wares within scope of the CF, etc...

In the end, we all benefit and there is room for all of us.

The Corvette market is very large market and is growing sequentially every year. There are almost 300M people in the US.. This is outside of the data now being collected from the New C6 Z06 sales. Which is, in fact, is pulling new people into, "the Corvette Crowd." Primarily, it is the highend imports that are taking it on the chin.

Good for us, you, other vendors, go USA.

As far as ATI, they will be coming to market hard here shortly. They are not in the head unit business.

There are other bigger players coming to market in next few years as well. Times change, as does the total horsepower, reliability standards and technology.

We will evolve with those total horsepower, reliability standards and technology requirements. You can count on it.

Brent

 

No one here is saying that the A&A kit isn't all that and a bag of chips. You used to have one of their kits. You know there is nothing wrong with them. ECS now has an alliance with Paxton and is the sole distributor of Paxton superchargers for the C5. As it turns out, the NOVI 2000 head unit out performs the D-1SC. That doesn't make the ProCharger suck, it just means that ProCharger isn't the best.

Cheers,

Mark

 

Exactly. I loved my procharger setup until I drove a Paxton and you simply can tell the difference. Comes on sooner and pulls harder. The dyno says it, the track results say it and my driving both set-ups say it.

 

I agree with most statements. When you look at all the turbo offerings on the market you can appreciate how much easier one can match a turbo to engine then supercharger.

I’ll skip the boring theory and math. The reason Paxton and Vortech units produce better low end torque response is simply mass flow! They are designed for higher mass flow so efficiency reflects this. The P1SC can be bolted to large V6 and perform very well, actually better then on LS1/6 (346 CID). It’s a shame you pay for mass flow, because cheaper units are not in sweet spot on our applications.

The head unit manufacture (ATI, Paxton, Vortech…) create generic units that encompass a range of displacements and boost levels. If you had a purpose built supercharger for LS1/2/6 with reasonable pressure ratio then you would see even better response that dyno and seat time will back up.

I have herd people say that lower RPM (blower) make it more efficient, that is completely backwards. Centrifugal compressors love high RPM (tip speed), look at speed lines and efficiency on turbo, they run allot faster then supercharger with better efficiency. Practicality and cost (bean counting) kicks in and compromises are made.

Now I have looked at Vortech and ATI compressor wheels, Vortech (Paxton is similar) has more optimized wheel. This means design is optimized for efficiency not manufacturing ease. Some may have read the Vortech vs. ATI P1SC document and it generally eludes to that – although a 3rd party comparison would be nice.

In conclusion selected Vortech and Paxton supercharger are better matched to C5 application that is why results are better.

A&A and ESC are doing very well in spite of past vendor actions. They are now using head units that match better to C5 application. But don’t forget they have very niece belt arrangements that make them very reliable and that is the key!!! Better intercooling helps but the brackets and customer support rules.


Mike

 

Yeah, thats all I was wondering. I just wanted to know if procharger "wasn't the best" because of their crappy marketing or if they really weren't because of technical and performance. It seems the head units from paxton are actually a little better. Thats all I wanted to know and I got the answer. I have no idea how it got so off topic. I wasn't asking which vendor was better, they are both A+ in my book. I swear some people don't read what people are asking, they just see the word supercharger and say "ECS is the best" or "A&A is the best. They are both the best, but thats not what the discussion is about.

 

Excellent advertisement pitch lol. Thanks for being so honast now can I make 525+RWHP safely on pump gas is the question :-P, And to the rest of you people stop yoinking my thread! lol.

Edit:Can I get a website+links+pictures mr SC guy :-P
Edit:Also any turbo guys if your around. Do you guys run Blow Off valves. If so pictures please thanks.

 

I love that song .. 'anything you can do I can do better ... I can do anything better than you '

Mark

 

I just noticed this, Although we have been known to go to the track now and then, only 10% of the S/C kits we install ever see the track. But the race cars make for better reading so thats what get posted.
I certainly apprieciate your praise Mark, I just didn't want people to think the ECS Paxton kit is for track use only.

We are middle in the middle of boxing up several kits before Wednesday since Chris and I will be tilting a few back with Andy and Charlie at PRI in Florida. Ooops, I ment investigating new products and talking to our excisting vendors.
This way if anyone is interested in a kit it can get shipped out as quick as possible. We had a short lag with the latest brackets, but now we are up and running in full production.

 

Heavens no. I just meant that something built to withstand the race track can easily handle any kind of street duty.

Mark

 

ECS = Race 9's (Soon 8's) on Friday night, Saturday, Sunday and drive it back to work on M,T,W,Th & F.

Brent
www.synergymotorsports.net


P.S. Let me know when some others besides (MDMC) break below ten.

 

bumpage :-P

TT kit guys do you use BOVs.

 

The funniest part about this entire thread is the fact that if our "Beloved Vendors" started marketing those little plastic windmill things (that our kids play with) with a small rubber band as the blower belt, as the "NEW" supercharger, everyone would start the leg humping all over again.

No matter what it is, wether its the newest clutch of the day, or newest FMIC, or TT, or even a new S/C headunit, Da#n near ALL the forum groupies flock to it and start to pi$$ all over the stuff they raved about the week prior.

The only person that has leghumped the same item for more than a month is "mdhmi" and his TT's Sorry Mark..

A&A makes a GREAT kit. Not only is it cost effective but its also reliable, and makes great power. ECS ALSO makes a great kit.. Their kit is more expensive, BUT they use superior parts and there is extensive track testing, along with huge #'s
Andy will tell you that he is NOT out to make a 9 sec car. He doesnt even claim to try. On the other hand, the HP junkies on the other coast arent happy until they hear a sonic boom behind their car.

To sum it up: Hurry up and make your decision, because chances are, what everyone likes today, will be a thing of the past tomorrow..

 

Is it really leghumping if, after trying multiple power-adders, you have chosen a favorite? There is a single product by a single vendor that I recommend based on my overwhelming satisfaction. That's customer feedback, not leghumping.

The following is an example of what I would view as leghumping:

So and so is coming out with a turbo kit at some point in the future. Everyone should wait patiently because it is going to be the bestest, fastest, and least expensive.

Cheers,

Mark

 

I agree. Mark is one of the very few who have actually personally tried what he posts about. Leghumping is these other guys who haven't personally tried a certain kit, but swear by it to suck up to a certain vendor or company. (not saying any names)

 

I'm just bustin your chops Mark..
It just seems that ANY time someone makes a reference to a S/C setup you immediatly tell them TT's are the holy grail of forced induction. And I personally think they BOTH have their place, depending on their application.

For my application, it happens to be S/C. Although, I would love to have someone take me out in their TT setup and show me its capabilities.

 

In my opinion, comparing a supercharger to a twin turbo setup is like comparing a vette to a viper. They both do different things and both have advantages and disadvantages. The key thing to remember is they are in two different classes. I'm willing to bet a huge percentage of people with superchargers would like to have turbos but cant swing the extra cash. Its just in a different class.

 

For me, it wasn't about swinging the extra cash. With a 6 speed, I thought the better throttle response and no lag when shifting, and being better able to control wheelspin by modulating the throttle would be an advantage with the supercharger.
Right or wrong? Time will tell.

 

I dont think it has to do with cash. Although more expensive, Its not THAT much more. I think it has more to do with the perceived complexity of the TT setup.

"Lack of knowledge, leads to fear."

If $$ is the case, then what about the guys who put a TTi X kit on a completely stock bottom end?? Does that mean they dont have enough money to invest in the ENTIRE project? NO, Its cause they dont want to.

 

My point exactly,
Turbo's are great and so are chargers, but for a car that is generally always driven on the street, it is easier to keep the power to the ground with an S/C since the boost is always linear. Once the "feel of the car" is learned it does not change. Just my opinion, since I drive and install both regularly.

 

I know you just playing. I really didn't take any offense.

In my opinion, a well designed twin turbo package is the holy grail. That is my opinion based on my experience with both types of setups. That doesn't mean there aren't terrific blower setups out there.

If you're ever in the Detroit area drop me a line as there are several people in the area with TTi X kits, myself included who would be happy to show you our setups.

I'm the only one I can think of who has an X kit on a stock bottom end. My motivation wasn't money, but, time. I didn't want to wait another month (a good part of a Michigan summer) to have a forged motor built the way I wanted. Plus for my hp goals (what I already make) I questioned the real need of a forged motor.

The truth is there are people who have been running for years at 600 rwhp on a stock bottom end. It's all in the tune and fuel.

Cheers,

Mark