2001 zo6 twin turbo
06-18-2006, 05:39 AM
#61
Safety Car
Originally Posted by mdhmi
Congrats on your single 408 setup. This thread really isn't about which kit is best - it's more of a discussion of value, both actual and perceived.
Any word on when your single turbo setup will be ready to rock?
Any word on when your single turbo setup will be ready to rock?
06-18-2006, 07:06 AM
#62
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while our kit is not a twin and I would have to crunch some numbers but for 25K I could do the forged long block, install the street kit single, fuel system, tuned and the built transmission.
06-18-2006, 08:11 AM
#63
Melting Slicks
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Originally Posted by msb184
1200hp???... oh I forgot..They didn't come to race the dyno so they held that 225000 beast down to what 772hp?? If somebody paid 225000 for that car they should throw in AIR FORCE 1 as a tow vehicle. How long do you get to use a name to justify a price that was 3 times as much as the GTO that was nearly as fast(and left with the rear gear it came with)?? oh ..I forgot you get a 2yr warranty. Was that the whole car or just the turbos that cost 2k each? I guess I am a nOOb my 1st vette was a '67, I missed the great investment you made in the 30k LT-5 option.Does DDS mean dentist?? bottom line.....why are people trying so hard to not state the obvious..LPE is very very expensive. In the 2 times I called, once for a fuel pump & once for a boost-a-pump the parts person(s) was rude,snotty & both times acted like they were doing me a favor. When I called to buy the elec. pump I asked what I was buying and was told" you give me the card # & I will send the pump. We have spent time researching fuel systems, I'm not giving you the information until you give me a card #." No price,no brand just blind faith .NOBODY is that great. People do snicker about LPE prices.
I called them before I went elsewhere,,,,but I did buy a few parts from them...nice stuff but way to costly...
06-18-2006, 08:44 AM
#64
Originally Posted by mdhmi
I posted my low boost dyno sheet - why won't he? If he were a serious street racer and had some grudge matches set up I could understand being hush hush about some of the mertrics, but as far as I know that isn't the case. I can only conclude that his combo isn't making much power or the spool stinks (although I think that would be pretty hard to accomplish with a 427).
Oh, and by the way - someone needs to grow a pair and stop running to the mods every time they see a post they don't like and getting it locked/removed.
06-18-2006, 01:43 PM
#66
Former Vendor
Originally Posted by #001 2001 Z06
Mark, be very specific.
I can tell you my case, my car has been running for months at more rwhp than your setup. Yes, it was being adjusted. It is currently running at 7 psi.. Rick has been turning up the boost slowly to identify problems. Every good shop, even LPE does that one off cars, including the KB 402 they are putting on the road course this weekend. It also takes time to do SD tune. The high end is being down now.
I can also tell you I paid in full for any services rendered, as well as full retail on almost all my parts. I have this down to penny each and every year and have each and every invoice to the day I obtained this vehicle in 2000.
In this case, it really came down to a lack of shop resources, in case you wondering. Rick recently obtained one his mechanics back from a dealership and had to replace another with another seasoned guy.
They were also in the middle of new product role out, press releases, normal business, etc..
I can tell you my case, my car has been running for months at more rwhp than your setup. Yes, it was being adjusted. It is currently running at 7 psi.. Rick has been turning up the boost slowly to identify problems. Every good shop, even LPE does that one off cars, including the KB 402 they are putting on the road course this weekend. It also takes time to do SD tune. The high end is being down now.
I can also tell you I paid in full for any services rendered, as well as full retail on almost all my parts. I have this down to penny each and every year and have each and every invoice to the day I obtained this vehicle in 2000.
In this case, it really came down to a lack of shop resources, in case you wondering. Rick recently obtained one his mechanics back from a dealership and had to replace another with another seasoned guy.
They were also in the middle of new product role out, press releases, normal business, etc..
I dont think we need to turn this thread into a war of who has more power than the other. With that said, Brent, you dont know what your HP is yet so please dont start a HP war with others on this thread. The car is almost done yes, but there is no graph to it yet. I can tell you what is has done so far at say 4K rpm, but nothing realy above that until I had some of the smaller issues all ironed out. The car will be on the dyno soon again when more time permits at the shop, and after that I will be the one to post the graph for everyone one to see what kind of HP it produces. So until then, lets all play nice and more so help out the others that are asking for help on the Forum when they start a post like this.
Rick
06-18-2006, 02:12 PM
#67
Team Owner
Originally Posted by #001 2001 Z06
I can tell you my case, my car has been running for months at more rwhp than your setup.
Originally Posted by Synergy Motorsports
...Brent, you dont know what your HP is yet so please dont start a HP war with others on this thread.
06-18-2006, 05:55 PM
#68
Originally Posted by mdhmi
06-18-2006, 06:57 PM
#69
Team Owner
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St. Jude Donor '06
Originally Posted by mdhmi
It's more than $18,000. That isn't including any extras like a heavy duty clutch, transmission, hardened output shaft, differential strut brace, tires, brakes, boost or fuel gagues, boost controller, etc, etc. That price also doesn't appear to include a forged short block.
I'm sure LPE has a good product, but for that type of money I'd expect one hell of a lot more than 470-500 rwhp. For $20-25K I'd want at _least_ 600 rwhp and a forged short block to go with it.
Just my .02.
I'm sure LPE has a good product, but for that type of money I'd expect one hell of a lot more than 470-500 rwhp. For $20-25K I'd want at _least_ 600 rwhp and a forged short block to go with it.
Just my .02.
06-18-2006, 08:27 PM
#70
NCM, WSCC &amp;amp; SCC Member
We do not know what the car will make at full boost. I have been very clear about that and that is running at 7psi.. and that a hoobs switch being put in for the heated fuel. When we have the final dyno sheet at full boost, it may be posted. I have said this over and over and over.
Then again MARK, you four days ago posted that it had a blown up motor on LS1tech, or not running(here) and dafamatory/sladerous comments about myself and Synergy. Frankly you have been doing the same to LPE & STS and all of the above on a regular daily basis. That is when the moderator LS1Tech warned you and erased your comments. You were and have been way out of line. Even Ed fianlly said something publically.
The car is obviously running just like I stated and frankly has been for months. I was very clear it was being dialed in slowly. You will know just after I know the information, if I am in town to post it.
EG. 6/6 3:56 P.M. Full Boost at 4,200. (This actually surprized Rick and I). I was hoping for full boost by 4,500 rpm (LPE 427 dyno 02/10/06 By MT).
Why don't you concentrate on the positives or negatives of your setup or the TTix kits you know about. I believe I have congradulated most of the TTix owners in regard to their purchases. I just personally choose not to go TTix for various reasons. I actual liked your post #59.
Then again MARK, you four days ago posted that it had a blown up motor on LS1tech, or not running(here) and dafamatory/sladerous comments about myself and Synergy. Frankly you have been doing the same to LPE & STS and all of the above on a regular daily basis. That is when the moderator LS1Tech warned you and erased your comments. You were and have been way out of line. Even Ed fianlly said something publically.
The car is obviously running just like I stated and frankly has been for months. I was very clear it was being dialed in slowly. You will know just after I know the information, if I am in town to post it.
EG. 6/6 3:56 P.M. Full Boost at 4,200. (This actually surprized Rick and I). I was hoping for full boost by 4,500 rpm (LPE 427 dyno 02/10/06 By MT).
Why don't you concentrate on the positives or negatives of your setup or the TTix kits you know about. I believe I have congradulated most of the TTix owners in regard to their purchases. I just personally choose not to go TTix for various reasons. I actual liked your post #59.
Last edited by #001 2001 Z06; 06-18-2006 at 09:27 PM.
06-18-2006, 10:00 PM
#71
Team Owner
Originally Posted by #001 2001 Z06
you four days ago posted that it had a blown up motor on LS1tech
Originally Posted by #001 2001 Z06
and dafamatory/sladerous comments about myself and Synergy
Originally Posted by #001 2001 Z06
That is when the moderator LS1Tech warned you and erased your comments.
Again - a few little jabs shouldn't cause you to panic and run to the mods.
Cheers,
Mark
06-18-2006, 10:55 PM
#72
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Lpe
Originally Posted by mdhmi
I spot checked LPE's website to see what they use in ther 650 TT motor: JE pistons and Manley rods.
06-18-2006, 11:04 PM
#73
Team Owner
Mahle is definitely not second class. If the motor was built with Diamond and Eagle components I would tend to agree (save the flames folks - we all have our preferences).
I don't think it's fair to say that the 550 package comes with junk as it's the same physical turbo kit as their more expensive kit, just on a stock bottom end.
I don't think it's fair to say that the 550 package comes with junk as it's the same physical turbo kit as their more expensive kit, just on a stock bottom end.
Last edited by mdhmi; 06-18-2006 at 11:10 PM.
06-18-2006, 11:16 PM
#74
Originally Posted by mdhmi
I don't think it's fair to say that the 550 package comes with junk as it's the same physical turbo kit as their more expensive kit, just on a stock bottom end.
How many F-BODY Owners got screwed with that company 
Anyway, after the INCON Debaucle, JL started fabricating his own SS manifolds (seems to be Benefits and drawbacks with both).BTW, Dave Inall is back as I'm sure a few of you guys know
06-18-2006, 11:21 PM
#75
Team Owner
Yep. And because of that there will soon be another turbo option available equal (in my opinion based on extensive review of the turbo kit pictures on each vendors web site) to Lingenfelter for a fraction of the cost.
I really don't want this to turn into an Inall discussion as that topic has been beaten to death even more than STS spool. Note that the Incon kit is still in demand on the used F-body market even after all of these years - that should tell you something.
I really don't want this to turn into an Inall discussion as that topic has been beaten to death even more than STS spool. Note that the Incon kit is still in demand on the used F-body market even after all of these years - that should tell you something.
06-19-2006, 12:04 AM
#76
Melting Slicks
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Brent/001,
For the record I saw Mark’s post that was deleted on LS1Tech. I at times surf while working, just as a welcome distraction and never post. And after some time you can figure out who is who even though screen names are different.
Now I don’t recall seeing blown up engine as one of three variables mentioned by Mark. There is no silver bullet as far as power adder goes… if there was we would all have same adder. At one point in time ECS system was the ultimate, then came STS and centrifugals sucked and then there was KB…
Everyone’s perception of a power adder differs and for different reasons, lets leave it at that.
Mike
For the record I saw Mark’s post that was deleted on LS1Tech. I at times surf while working, just as a welcome distraction and never post. And after some time you can figure out who is who even though screen names are different.
Now I don’t recall seeing blown up engine as one of three variables mentioned by Mark. There is no silver bullet as far as power adder goes… if there was we would all have same adder. At one point in time ECS system was the ultimate, then came STS and centrifugals sucked and then there was KB…
Everyone’s perception of a power adder differs and for different reasons, lets leave it at that.
Mike
06-19-2006, 12:08 AM
#77
NCM, WSCC &amp;amp; SCC Member
I not going to argue what you said as I printed it and filed it. More was said...but its over.
Seriously, I will share the good and bad with this setup.
I just happen to be obtain a lot of information through various sources that are either involved with the setup or own it.
Thats it. I might even email the information to you next time.
It is, what it is, good or bad.
Just saw your post Mike.
I agree no silver bullet.
Looking at Le Mans, we might be racing turbo diesels in three years at 3,500 rpm's.
Now off to more constructive things.
Seriously, I will share the good and bad with this setup.
I just happen to be obtain a lot of information through various sources that are either involved with the setup or own it.
Thats it. I might even email the information to you next time.
It is, what it is, good or bad.
Just saw your post Mike.
I agree no silver bullet.
Looking at Le Mans, we might be racing turbo diesels in three years at 3,500 rpm's.
Now off to more constructive things.
Last edited by #001 2001 Z06; 06-19-2006 at 12:23 AM.
06-19-2006, 12:25 AM
#78
Melting Slicks
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Originally Posted by #001 2001 Z06
I not going to argue what you said as I printed it and filed it.
Seriously, I will share the good and bad with this setup.
I just happen to be obtain a lot of information through various sources that are either involved with the setup or own it.
Thats it. I might even email the information to you next time.
It is, what it is, good or bad.
Just saw your post Mike.
I agree no silver bullet.
Looking at Le Mans, we might be racing turbo diesels in three years at 3,500 rpm's.
Now off to more constructive things.
Seriously, I will share the good and bad with this setup.
I just happen to be obtain a lot of information through various sources that are either involved with the setup or own it.
Thats it. I might even email the information to you next time.
It is, what it is, good or bad.
Just saw your post Mike.
I agree no silver bullet.
Looking at Le Mans, we might be racing turbo diesels in three years at 3,500 rpm's.
Now off to more constructive things.
Why do you have the need to print and file my post?
In a recent thread I made the statement that I didn’t think Novi 2000 can run circles around Vortech… numerous members said to the contrary and posted experience. I said something along the lines of, I stand corrected… and could you point me to compressor maps.
I have made statements that did not pan out especially with respect to troubleshooting. But then on some occasions I can add to topics (albeit occasionally
). We are here to learn and share experience, there are allot of members that I find very informative and valuable to the C5 community. I have beaten up on Mark for saying turbo is free energy… that’s the way I feel because there no such thing as free energy or perpetual engine. Those are my opinions and I stand behind them, prove me wrong and I will gladly apologize which I have done before.
Oh, I did watch LeMans and those TT diesels kicked some a$$.
Mike
Last edited by Skunkworks; 06-19-2006 at 12:32 AM.
06-19-2006, 08:47 AM
#79
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Originally Posted by msb184
I have been critical of LPE prices/value. No disrespect meant to John L. He was a nice guy & a truly gifted man. .He ran in COMP ELIMINATOR with his A/ED, so he pitted fairly close to us several times. Always modest & helpful if you asked. His parts were expensive but you got what you paid for. Here is an example. He used Oliver rods a lot. Look at old catalogs or mag. atiicles and when hard parts are listed there they are. Now look at the LPE web site at the 427. NO-NAME(i.e.chinese) parts,not 1 brand name listed .Is that worth 25k unblown?? Some on this forum are LPE fans & state they bought their motor years ago. For a period after Mr. L passed things remained unchanged.Call & asked who makes their parts now. Oliver rods cost 1450+ list, imported rods are 300 or so. The point is are you buying a name with a bunch of generic parts? In the old days you knew what you bought, premium name brand parts.If you bought CNC heads they were Brodix or Dart etc. That Motor Trend article said it best. Go back & read the old M/T article when M/T tested a nearly identical vehicle with John L. in charge .It went 9.0,(later 8's), this car was stated to be 1100 hp. This years car claimed 1000hp or more & barely outran the 06 ZO-6. When you pay double the going price are you getting what you paid for? The MTI GTO cost about ONE-THIRD as much and went nearly as fast with an STS muffler replacement. Just because you can buy something does not make it better. ECS,MTI,Vette Dr's,TTi, STS & many others can do that job for half of that 25k. You could build a forged motor with the other 12.5k. If bragging is important get an LPE decal for each valve cover.
Here are the contents of our C6 TT package:
http://www.lingenfelter.com/C6LS2Lin...Turbo725HP.htm
When I read it, I see Callies crank, JE pistons, and Manly rods
are these what you consider "chinese parts??"
The problem here, is someone with no firsthand information at all makes a post in which he passes himself off as someone in the know. Then someone else reads it, and assumes he knows what he's talking about, and they make a decision based on totally inaccurate information. Then I get to spend a good part of my day posting the accurate information.
For your information Mr. msb184, things here have not changed, if you would like to see that firsthand, you are welcome to stop by for a visit, I will personnally show you around the shop and answer any questions that you could possibly think up. If you have no interest in doing that, then please keep your expert opinions of how LPE does things to yourself, as they are totally off base.
Ed
06-19-2006, 09:39 AM
#80
Originally Posted by mdhmi
Yep. And because of that there will soon be another turbo option available equal (in my opinion based on extensive review of the turbo kit pictures on each vendors web site) to Lingenfelter for a fraction of the cost.
Note that the Incon kit is still in demand on the used F-body market even after all of these years - that should tell you something.
Note that the Incon kit is still in demand on the used F-body market even after all of these years - that should tell you something.
Back in the INCON Fiascal days, I remember the LS1 Forum mods closing INCON threads on the LS1 Forums left and right Hey, a good horror flick to go see would be INCON vs HENNESSEY