So at what level does a water cooled center section become a benefit. Mostly for extended use on a road course? Or would it be helpful on a milder application. Say 550 HP on a street/limited quarter mile car.
Also would the ball bearing turbos help prevent baking the oil on a hot shutdown. It would seem like there would be less contact area and heat transfer with a BB unit. I know that coking of the oil could be a problem in the past but is it still a issue with modern oils?

 

I am going to start tracking my car on the road course soon, so I hope to be able to provide more info on this topic.

 

Everything I was gonna say was said. TTi is offering their X kit for $1,000 more than the APS kit and you cannot even compare the two. The turbo's that are on the X-kit are true BB turbo's that are comparable to Garret GT35's. The fact that they are offering the discount now on both their kits is stepping up to the plate in my opinion. Let's not forget, APS said they will discount the first 15 orders to $6995 then it's back up. I was told that their $7995 price was an introductory offer and it would be $8995 after new year. Now it's $6995. If you believe what you're saying, then everyone is screwing everyone. Welcome to the real world.
TTi's kit is made here and it's proven. Their product is worth more if you ask me...I do understand the frustration of paying $$$ for mods, but your comment was directed towards one company...Their discount was a way of keeping the customer happy, so that they keep their customers. In my own business I go out of my way to keep my clients happy, even if I don't make $$$ sometimes, but it brings me future business and my clients thank me for caring to want to keep their business. There are other Turbo companies with less reputation that did not offer discounts to people wanting to go with their kits.

 

Just to set the record straight so guys are not mislead. Garret GT series turbos are true dual ball bearing turbos (have ball bearings at each end of the turbine shaft) where as the other so called ball bearing turbos have a ball bearing at only one end of the turbine shaft, not a true ball bearing turbocharger...............at best half of a ball bearing turbocharger. Let's just make sure we get facts right otherwise guys could easily be confused.

The APS C5 twin turbo system has an MSRP of $7995 and that's always been the case (nothing new there) and the special offer of $6995 for the C5 twin turbo system is an introductory offer only.

Peter

 

ZO-Sick point well made, I do agree with you there, other companies could have stepped up but didn't. They probably should have, I wonder how many TTi and APS kits have sold in the last 5 or 6 days? Has to be up near 30, hmmm... that's only $210,000 in sales!!n There's going to be a whole lot of fast C5's out there!! It's a win win for the customers, some got a great deal on a proven kit, and some got a great deal on a kit that seems to be really promising. Good luck to all, Dan

 

Snipped from Turbonetics website

Turbochargers

Q: Why do Turbonetics ceramic ball-bearing turbos only use one ball bearing?

A: Turbonetics created the ceramic ball bearing turbocharger for durability. By utilizing a single, ceramic, angular-contact ball bearing on the compressor side instead of the more common bronze piece, the ball bearing can absorb the thrust loading that all too often can lead to turbo failure in high performance gas applications. The Turbonetics ceramic ball bearing turbo can withstand up to 50 times the thrust load capacity, compared to a conventional floating bearing unit. Dual ball bearing turbos can only withstand 2-3 times more thrust loading than standard turbos. Learn more about Turbonetics Patented Ceramic Ball Bearing turbos.

http://www.turboneticsinc.com/turbo_ceramicbb.htm


Q: What is on the turbine side of the turbocharger in the ceramic ball-bearing turbochargers?

A: The turbine side of the ceramic ball-bearing turbo uses a floating bearing to dampen the harmonics and vibrations that are transmitted through the turbocharger. This allows Turbonetics to balance the turbo to the most demanding tolerances.


Q: Do the ceramic ball-bearing turbos "spool up" faster than a normal turbo?

A: YES! The ceramic ball-bearing design reduces the frictional loss that occurs with a conventional floating bearing-and-thrust system turbo. The ceramic ball-bearing design allows the turbo to accelerate much quicker, thus decreasing spool-up time. In most cases we have found our ceramic ball-bearing designs require 50 percent less energy to drive the turbo.


Q: What is a "hybrid" turbocharger?

A: A "hybrid" turbo uses parts from two different families of turbochargers to create a completely new turbo to meet a specific need. This can be done with the same brand of turbos, or two different makes can be combined to form something totally new. An example is the T3/T4. This turbo uses T3 turbine parts combined with T4 compressor pieces to make a turbo that fits a certain horsepower and displacement range.

 

I've read that info before myself and it would be ideal to see some independant engineering assessment of those statements.............not the manufacturers own marketing claims.

Bottom line.................a turbo manufacturer can claim whatever they want............this does not make it engineering fact................still half a ball bearing turbo when compared to a true Garrett GT series turbocharger.

Peter

 

The American economy is going down the tubes. You guys ie. TTI make a great product. Why don't you guys support your own. Right now every Canadian is taking advantage of you beaten up economy.

 

I wonder can this go both way's ? That's a pritty bold statement peter coming from a manufacturer!!!

 

You read my mind...

 

Good Lord.. I stayed out of it until this post..

This coming from a country where their exchange rate sucks, the taxes are RIDICULOUS, and the economy is pathetic???

The US stock market is at the highest is ever been in history,and consumer spending is through the roof in comparison to recent years , and your gonna say "Our" economy sucks????

Canadians taking advantage of "Our" beaten up economy?? YOU PAY MORE FOR IT THAN WE DO.....

 

Lets face it... TTi has nothing really to prove. They have a GREAT system that is proven..

Were they capitalizing on being the only big boy on the block??? Hell Yes.. I almost paid 10 Grand for one 14 months ago..
But the truth is, they are no different than ANY company. I would do the same thing..

Why is APS coming out with such aggressive pricing?? Its simple. The more kits on the market closer to their release date causes the company to reach the masses faster than a company that charges full price and waits for a customer here and there.
They can go from no kits to 30 kits in less than 3 months. Its hard for a new customer to spend such a large amount of money, when there aren't any kits on the market for them to base their decision off of.

Think about it.. In 6 months there will be between 20 and 30 APS TT cars ON THIS BOARD ALONE. That means INSTANT recognition.
This took TTi a couple of years to obtain that type of saturation. Hell, I dont even know if there are 20-30 TTi-X cars currently on this board.

Heres my take on the kits.

I personally dont know which kit I would go with.. On one hand Phil has been sooo instrumental in the progression of TT systems on this board, that I dont know if I could go against what "He" thinks is the best kit..

On the other hand, I have seen first hand what a FMIC does to a car out here in the Vegas heat. I would be terrified to go through all that B.S again.

On the other hand, I think the oil pump is a disaster waiting to happen..

(Oh and BTW, YES I have 3 hands..... )

 

^That's funny.

Hey Jeff, I remember reading a thread awhile ago where you mentioned you were impressed with TT's and had thought about possibly doing a setup. Were you just saying that nonchalantly, or had a real consideration? You don't think a 800RWHP KB is as potent as a 800RWHP TT, and as much or more fun to drive on the street?

 

I can see how well it is, your deficit is in the trillons. Housing market has crashed. No big three anymore.
Gm hanging by a thread and Toyota about to move in as number 1 automaker in the world. Your so call US dollar has lost 40% were almost at par.

 

Ok ... this really helps clarify things.

Perhaps our vettes should not rely on any pumps ... so we can avoid the inevitables. BTW ... isn't a turbo simply an air pump ?

 

The value of the American dollar (USD) has steadily declined in value over the years (I should say the Bush years). $100 American dollars is worth approximately $115 Canadian dollars (CAD).

This is nothing like the old days where we could pop across the tunnel to Windsor for a nice Italian dinner or venture out to Toronto to catch a show at the Ford Centre and make out like bandits on the currency conversion. Those days are over.

One byproduct of a weak dollar is our exports become more affordable to other countries, whether that be expressed in personal watercraft exports to South Africa or twin turbo kits to Canada.

Cheers,

Mark

 

Doesn't LPE use an electric scavenge pump and dump back to the pan (instead of the valve cover like APS)?

 

Yes. Both kits rely on scav pumps. There is no way around that when the turbos hang that low.

 

A little birdy told me that the LPE scavenger pump now mechanical? This is not a jab at the APS kit, but I would NEVER run one. I decided against bigger turbos on my GTS (wanted 'em hung low) cuz I didn't want to do a scavenger pump. After all the problems that the early f-body incon guys and some of the early LPE guys had, I wasn't willing to take the risk. I'd do a top mount first. No matter what anybody tells you, its just one more thing that can and will go wrong. In the end, if you decide to run one, better get a spare or two in case you are on a long trip and need to replace it.

 

Like meth pumps.