Possible future FI convert...
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Aug 2008
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From: Colorado springs
@ Darion
Good links, that's some extreme plumbing. I'm really big on preventive maintinence, I'd hate to have to check compression or even think about a plug with that setup. That centri vs PD was some good knowledge. Seems like that roots is good for the street but hard to go beyond its initial power gain.
Flipside I'm not looking to race.....yet.
Thanks man!
Good links, that's some extreme plumbing. I'm really big on preventive maintinence, I'd hate to have to check compression or even think about a plug with that setup. That centri vs PD was some good knowledge. Seems like that roots is good for the street but hard to go beyond its initial power gain.
Flipside I'm not looking to race.....yet.
Thanks man!
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,088
Likes: 1,829
From: Metro Detroit Michigan
ECS centrifugal, A&A centrifugal, and TTi turbo. There are also people quite happy and doing well with PD blowers, but they seem to need to jump through more hoops to get them to the power levels of those already mentioned. For low rpm horsepower, similar to huge cubic inches, I don't think anything else comes close to the PD, except for nitrous.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 27,567
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From: San Diego
A&A YSI kit and be done with it.
If I didn't have my D1, I'd have gone that route instead. It can make way more power than my stock bottom end LS1 could dream of making, but you'll always want more, and once forged/stroker motors go in, things change.
If I didn't have my D1, I'd have gone that route instead. It can make way more power than my stock bottom end LS1 could dream of making, but you'll always want more, and once forged/stroker motors go in, things change.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 574
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From: Colorado springs
For A&A, how far can you go with this kit? In reference to upgrading, maintenance, power? Most people here have fairly built engines, bigger CI stroking, and so forth. If I choose to go with a drag/racing route in the future will I start from scratch or just throw on another pulley and have fun?
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,005
Likes: 490
From: South Florida
A&A Si trim runs to 650rwhp efficiently, but can make 725. The Ti trim runs efficient to 750rwhp, but can make over 800. YSi for 700+ builds. The only thing I don't like about vortech blowers is they seem to make less power than the prochargers and paxton novi's. They put out good HP #'s, but the torque just isn't there. I saw a graph of one guy that only gained 40rwtq with his blower. If I paid 6 grand for a blower and only made 40 more tq, I'd sell the car.
Another thing is if you want to chase dyno #'s or track times. I personally like track times but it comes at a price $$$. Vortech has some quick automatic cars, but I am yet to see a 6 speed vortech car that impresses me at the track.
Another thing is if you want to chase dyno #'s or track times. I personally like track times but it comes at a price $$$. Vortech has some quick automatic cars, but I am yet to see a 6 speed vortech car that impresses me at the track.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 27,567
Likes: 99
From: San Diego
A&A Si trim runs to 650rwhp efficiently, but can make 725. The Ti trim runs efficient to 750rwhp, but can make over 800. YSi for 700+ builds. The only thing I don't like about vortech blowers is they seem to make less power than the prochargers and paxton novi's. They put out good HP #'s, but the torque just isn't there. I saw a graph of one guy that only gained 40rwtq with his blower. If I paid 6 grand for a blower and only made 40 more tq, I'd sell the car.
Another thing is if you want to chase dyno #'s or track times. I personally like track times but it comes at a price $$$. Vortech has some quick automatic cars, but I am yet to see a 6 speed vortech car that impresses me at the track.
Another thing is if you want to chase dyno #'s or track times. I personally like track times but it comes at a price $$$. Vortech has some quick automatic cars, but I am yet to see a 6 speed vortech car that impresses me at the track.
:Kind of hard to take that seriously to be honest with you. Friend of mine is making over 600rwhp on a T-Trim 2v Mustang on pump gas.
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,005
Likes: 490
From: South Florida
I don't have the link. If I posted in the thread I could pull it up, but I had nothing nice to say so I didn't say anything. I am sure the 2v is crankin out a good hunk of boost to make 600@W.
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Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,734
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From: Youngstown Ohio
A&A Si trim runs to 650rwhp efficiently, but can make 725. The Ti trim runs efficient to 750rwhp, but can make over 800. YSi for 700+ builds. The only thing I don't like about vortech blowers is they seem to make less power than the prochargers and paxton novi's. They put out good HP #'s, but the torque just isn't there. I saw a graph of one guy that only gained 40rwtq with his blower. If I paid 6 grand for a blower and only made 40 more tq, I'd sell the car.
Another thing is if you want to chase dyno #'s or track times. I personally like track times but it comes at a price $$$. Vortech has some quick automatic cars, but I am yet to see a 6 speed vortech car that impresses me at the track.
Another thing is if you want to chase dyno #'s or track times. I personally like track times but it comes at a price $$$. Vortech has some quick automatic cars, but I am yet to see a 6 speed vortech car that impresses me at the track.
I would agree if I paid 6 grrr and that was the best I got I would not be happy.
Darion
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 27,567
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From: San Diego
And yes, my friend is running 20psi on pump gas through the T-Trim. He has a 4v head setup that is just waiting cams and headers, then he's shooting to max out the T-Trim before moving on to something else.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,088
Likes: 1,829
From: Metro Detroit Michigan
For A&A, how far can you go with this kit? In reference to upgrading, maintenance, power? Most people here have fairly built engines, bigger CI stroking, and so forth. If I choose to go with a drag/racing route in the future will I start from scratch or just throw on another pulley and have fun?
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 574
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From: Colorado springs
Alright you've convinced me, no STS! They do have a nice whoosh sound Alright ECS and A@A. Both seem to have a relative similar setup. Of ECS offers that super blower, will it be able to perform with let's say the Si from A@A.
Alright here I go thinking again...
Larger tubes take longer to spool but generate rockets like power in the top end, but suffer in the low end because of spool time etc. I'm assuming a$$-you-me, that the same would be try for a larger Centri, practically the same device.
With that being said I would most likely want to go for A@A to my specific build. 10 sec street machine. I know ill need a bit more for that with a v2si kit, but I think the recharge would suite my preference a bit better.
Then again I could be wrong....
If I get only 40 HP after this build, there a strong possibility of going postal on something. I'll choose the desert for now.
Alright ECS and A@A. Both seem to have a relative similar setup. Of ECS offers that super blower, will it be able to perform with let's say the Si from A@A. Alright here I go thinking again...
Larger tubes take longer to spool but generate rockets like power in the top end, but suffer in the low end because of spool time etc. I'm assuming a$$-you-me, that the same would be try for a larger Centri, practically the same device.
With that being said I would most likely want to go for A@A to my specific build. 10 sec street machine. I know ill need a bit more for that with a v2si kit, but I think the recharge would suite my preference a bit better.
Then again I could be wrong....
If I get only 40 HP after this build, there a strong possibility of going postal on something. I'll choose the desert for now.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,088
Likes: 1,829
From: Metro Detroit Michigan
Alright here I go thinking again...
Larger tubes take longer to spool but generate rockets like power in the top end, but suffer in the low end because of spool time etc. I'm assuming a$$-you-me, that the same would be try for a larger Centri, practically the same device.
What you do is you set up your blower to make too much boost on the top end. This will result in more boost across the board. The restriction at the blower inlet cuts down the top end, but has less effect on the increased boost at lower rpms. The result is a broader power band.
Additionally, with a small enough blowoff valve, the charge piping and intercooler are always pressurized, so no time is needed to pressurize the system. I put a pressure gauge on my system and checked this. The downside would be slightly poorer fuel economy if you spend a lot of time driving at high rpms/low throttle opening, because you're wasting energy creating intake tract boost which never makes it past the throttle blade to the intake manifold.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Aug 2008
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From: Colorado springs
I think I understand a bit better now. Are restricted plates bought or built, or perhaps instead of a plate using an adjustable gate; like a throttle ctrl valve, to fine tune your lower end tq?
Should I stay with the BCV that's included in the kit, or buy one of my own. I'm guessing ECS or A@A are selling quality with their products.
I was reading and like the A&A's blowoff valve ctrl on the charger it's self. ECS didn't write up as well on theirs so I'm not sure if it has one aside from at the intercooler.
Additionally A&A offers the contained SC oil blowers. Again couldn't find that on ECS site. Could possibly have that set up. Seems a better set up from a mechanical standpoint.
Let me say you guys are awesome for helping me out in my decision.
Should I stay with the BCV that's included in the kit, or buy one of my own. I'm guessing ECS or A@A are selling quality with their products.
I was reading and like the A&A's blowoff valve ctrl on the charger it's self. ECS didn't write up as well on theirs so I'm not sure if it has one aside from at the intercooler.
Additionally A&A offers the contained SC oil blowers. Again couldn't find that on ECS site. Could possibly have that set up. Seems a better set up from a mechanical standpoint.
Let me say you guys are awesome for helping me out in my decision.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 27,567
Likes: 99
From: San Diego
ECS's Novi has quite a bit more in it then the SI blowers if I recall correctly. The Novi is closer to an inbetween the T-Trim and YSI. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong. Another difference, is that Novi is probably the quietest of the centrificals. So if you like a little whistle from your blower, you won't want the Novi(like me for example, I like hearing it). I believe you can get the Si and T-Trims with self-contained oil units, but the YSI still needs to be tapped to the oil pan.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Aug 2008
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From: Colorado springs
Yeah I'd really like to go the self contained oiling route. I can keep on top of the changes just fine. That YSI kit looks a little to extreme for my individual application. The upgradability is a tempting feature tho.
In terms of track times, would the Si, T, or ECS benefit me more? That ECS kit doesn't look as specific as A&A, but does offer great instant power for the price. They're both so close IMO that it could take the Cust. Sppt to sway my judgement. That and I do like that whistle, let's me know its there.
In terms of track times, would the Si, T, or ECS benefit me more? That ECS kit doesn't look as specific as A&A, but does offer great instant power for the price. They're both so close IMO that it could take the Cust. Sppt to sway my judgement. That and I do like that whistle, let's me know its there.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 27,567
Likes: 99
From: San Diego
Yeah I'd really like to go the self contained oiling route. I can keep on top of the changes just fine. That YSI kit looks a little to extreme for my individual application. The upgradability is a tempting feature tho.
In terms of track times, would the Si, T, or ECS benefit me more? That ECS kit doesn't look as specific as A&A, but does offer great instant power for the price. They're both so close IMO that it could take the Cust. Sppt to sway my judgement. That and I do like that whistle, let's me know its there.
In terms of track times, would the Si, T, or ECS benefit me more? That ECS kit doesn't look as specific as A&A, but does offer great instant power for the price. They're both so close IMO that it could take the Cust. Sppt to sway my judgement. That and I do like that whistle, let's me know its there.
A&A and ECS both have excellent customer service, why don't you talk to one of your local shops and see what they like using, then go from there?
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 574
Likes: 5
From: Colorado springs
Once you get bit with the boost bug, you'll find yourself wanting more. Heads and cam next, then pulley down for more boost. Next thing you know, you're planning forged internals(or a stroker motor), then a bigger blower. With a restrictor plate(which you can run with any of the centrificals), you'll get more of that instant power that you might be looking for, with the ability to resize it or remove it later when your engine is capable of handling more power.
A&A and ECS both have excellent customer service, why don't you talk to one of your local shops and see what they like using, then go from there?
A&A and ECS both have excellent customer service, why don't you talk to one of your local shops and see what they like using, then go from there?
Advanced
Joined: Mar 2011
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Turbos are not parasitic so you'll get better mileage and they are not as hard on the drive train. You can get an electronic boost controller to bring in the boost with respect to rpm/as you gain traction (completely adjustable). At idle you will not hear a whine, so you can drive it soft and park it at the store with out drawing any attention (no whistling).
Put together a kit with used pieces. As long as you don't go over 8-10psi you will not damage your factory engine as it is. You will need push rods, valve springs, injectors and a 255 lph fuel pump.
Put together a kit with used pieces. As long as you don't go over 8-10psi you will not damage your factory engine as it is. You will need push rods, valve springs, injectors and a 255 lph fuel pump.