BEST... THREAD... EVER!!!

 

i hope you don't really believe that. you have posted more immature insults on this forum than anybody else who still has an account here. and the insults you have posted are not even intelligent - calling somebody a "bitch" and talking about having sex with people's sisters is the kind of stuff i would expect only on an elementary school playground.

 

Just signed up for the site the other day...
This is the first thread I have ever read...

I have seen less childish behavior at ClubSi.com
Thread Hi-jack like none other. I was expecting to see some photos of the new bracket system.

Hope this isn't the norm over here,
EA

PS: 153% duty cycle... there is a bit more to this, then just the numbner. First realize that 100% DC is static..meaning the injector no longer cycles, and has reached a fully open state. You can program 300% duty cycle in....but your still only going to get 100%. Are you sure you don't have VE confused with DC?

Duty Cycle is also in direct relation with Fuel pressure. I could have 45psi of fuel pressure and 80% duty cycle. If I drop fuel pressure to 35psi and command the same amount of fuel the duty cycle could go up to 100% to compensate. With that being said, if you had an injector that was operating at 55psi base pressure, and upon WOT reaching 95% DC. I would increase the Base FP, till it dropped the DC into the 80-90% DC. Moral of the story, it's all relative.

Only thing is that LS1's can't have a programed demanded Fuel pressure, like the 1999 and up Mustangs can. (it's limited, but still) So this isn't something you can't play with untill you had a return style fuel system.

LS1 Edit, is a "Calculated Duty Cycle" based of the stock VE table. So the numbers do get very High. It is not based on Actually Duty Cycle.

There are a number of other things I could correct in this thread, though it doesn't seem to be worth the time. This one is already turning into a book.

 

Further indications that not only do you lie but you can not read (I know it is because of my commas). So here are the corrections.

I stated that you and hogurt were ACTING like a pair of bitches (define that will you).

The sister thing was followed by a joke to his insult. Tattoo you should just focus your energy on something other than insults and ATI than you will not get offended by either.


Oh to the guy talking about fuel pressure. You are absolutely correct. Many of us are hoping for the new Racetronix system to come out soon. It should eliminate having to switch to a 97-98 rail. Maintaining the proper FP is critical to tuning. Racetronix posted a link that shows their system in use on a TT application. The FP guage never leaves 60psi. 60-65psi is exactly the type of FP that we need to tune around. I play a lot with the Fuel Injector calculators on smokemup.com. It is interesting to look the effects of FP and the amount of HP that can be sorted with only a change in FP and Duty Cycle. The more FP the less duty cycle and more hp can be supported. The High Impedence injectors we use also can create some drivibility issues (with 75lb+) vs. having the ability to use low impedence. I am looking at a new tuning system to go with my TT, that will remove the MAF and use voltage like Speed Density.

 

I understand that 153% duty cycle is only calculated by scanning software and not an actual number.. however the point I was trying to convey is the injectors (that were included in the kit) were not large enough to run within the proper parameters for our C5's

VR

 

..:: I am starting this off by saying, I am not defending ATI, as it's been put in this thread. Just trying to get some facts strait ::..

So your saying, on a stock car Corvette with 450-480rwhp (Since ATI's web site, says the kit makes 540 Crank HP) The 38lb injectors that were supplied were at 153% duty cycle? Something isn't adding up...Unless your fuel pressure was falling off due to a weak pump.

EA

 

EA, thanks for the info. . .that's a great explanation!

 

Not a problem... !!!

EA

 

I understand you are not defending ATI. I didnt think you were. Yes, the scanning software did indicate that the 38 lb injectors were running at 153%. Only by purchasing 42lb injectors was I able to bring the percent down to acceptable levels with my mods at that time. We/I did a fuel pressure test at that time and everything checked out ok.

Would you like to ask me about any of the other Items I listed previously? Because I am sure that others would like to discuss those problems with you as well.

VR

 

Shinobi'sZ wrote, "I have wrote thesis papers, just because I don't choose to follow the proper rules when posting in this forum..doesn't mean **** about ****. If you have anything esle you would like to say personally to me...please come discuss it in person...otherwise...STFU".


First, your post should have read, "I have written. . .". Of course, I am certain the professor who flunked your sorry butt told you, "you don't know **** about ****".

I would be happy to tell you my thoughts in person. Next time you are in St. Louis, look me up. . .I am available for tutoring all year.

Now for your props, you also wrote, "When customers write in a complaint you could spell check it for them vs. addressing the real problem". That's hilarious!!!

Supercoupe, Thanks, my car is coming along nicely. Your input is much appreciated and respected.

 

I was just putting that up to make sure I didn't get a personal attack like others have faced in this thread, for opposing something you have stated.

As stated, there is no such thing as 153%. 100% is all you get...
Being as though you said you spend a lot of time on Smokemup.com In the fuel section. You do realize you are comparing Apples to Oranges when you are talking a 38lb injector and a 42lb injector.

The GM 38 is rated at or around 55psi
The FORD 42 is rated at 45psi

So we are not talking just a 10.5% increase in flow...
We are talking a 26% gain in flow, when rated at the same pressure.

The GM injector is a far overated injector as Injectors are concerned. It's not like they are trying to say it's something it's not. It's just the simple fact that the rating systems were different. It's like taking data comparisons that were collected by Mean, Median, and Mode. The data could have some very different results. It's not "wrong" it's just "different"

This is also not to say the injector is to small for the kit. Infact I pluged some simple numbers in, and found the injector is just fine if used with the 460-480rwhp in mind.

The reason for sicking with the smallest injector possible when building a F/I application is 2 fold. 1) Driveability, smaller = better 2) Keeping the duty cycles in the 80-90% range for reasons I have stated above.

I have 83lb injectors in my street car, and am at the max limits of what they can take, while keeping my base pressure at 35psi. The reason for the low base psi is because you want to have at least 1mil sec. or more Duty Cycle at all times to get the injector to function correctly. If I was at a higher base pressure, I would have to set the duty cycle below 1mil sec to get the car to idle, and all would not be well. Now I could easily give myself some breathing room by upping the base pressure, though I would sacrifice the idle quality of the car.

It's all about matching the right injector with your combination...
And that will lead me to my next point....


You sumed up your issue right there. The car had MODS, thus it was not something a stock kit injector would have been able to handle. If you were doing something that you knew was going to make more power then the 460-480rwhp that is advertized, why wouldn't you not use the correct injector for the job? That is why most turbo and supercharger companies offer partial kits. Where you can delete items that you don't need, since your needs are different then what the kit was designed for. I believe both Vortech and ATI offer them listed as "tuner" kits. So if you had Mods done to your car, and thought the injector designed for the stock car was going to fit the bill....then thats shame on you... or shame on your installer. Not ATI, Not Vortech, Not Turbonetics, Etc.

I would love to spend the time to correct other things I have seen. But as we all know time=money. (That and I am hungry) And this post took a bit to type, since I am by NO MEANS an english major. Please don't send the gramar police to my house, I already know it's bad.

Hope that all made scence, it's dinner time.
EA

 

don't worry - nothing you could possibly say or do would offend me. thanks for humoring me though!

 

Your posts makes sense, but beware it may be spell checked..but who am I to talk about that.

The part you were missing, it is only because you were not around 2-3 years ago, is that many cars had to replace the 38lb injectors that came with the ATI kit (you couldn't give them away for a bit), and that was stock cars (meaning stock heads and cam)...not just the modded cars. Those had to go along with the microtuner. Yes it is true the injectors at 3 bar are more than what they are rated at @2bar...but it did not seem to help. But you are correct that 38lb injectors should support 450rwhp. What happened is that people ran more boosts, and on the dyno the belt did not slip or shred. But on the street and strip it was a whole nother story. The shredding was perhaps the biggest blunder by ATI...mainly because they did not listen to the phone calls from customers. Had they listened they would have realized that the inside idler pully brackets that bolted to the blower housing, were too thick. Because the brackets were too thick it caused the belt not to be centered on the pully...so when under a load on the street it would shift and ride up onto the boss and cut it like a pizza cutter....it was very frustrating for many...not me I sold it before all the bugs were worked out...it disgusted me.

The kit had huge problems other than that, described above previously. This is why you do not see hardly any ATI kits on the C5 as they came from ATI or the Fbodies (go visit ls1tech.com and ask around). This is why other tuners are making money selling them in their own kits. As far as I know GWP did this first modded ATI (Goldenwestperformance.com).

 

QUOTE FROM E.A.

You sumed up your issue right there. The car had MODS, thus it was not something a stock kit injector would have been able to handle. If you were doing something that you knew was going to make more power then the 460-480rwhp that is advertized, why wouldn't you not use the correct injector for the job? That is why most turbo and supercharger companies offer partial kits. Where you can delete items that you don't need, since your needs are different then what the kit was designed for. I believe both Vortech and ATI offer them listed as "tuner" kits. So if you had Mods done to your car, and thought the injector designed for the stock car was going to fit the bill....then thats shame on you... or shame on your installer. Not ATI, Not Vortech, Not Turbonetics, Etc.


At the time all my car had was a set of headers and the rest was stock. I still say that the 38 lb injectors were not enough based on scans with Ease software. I never said I even once went to Smokemup.com website. It would be a good idea to get your facts straight as to the condition of my car at the time of the install before you go off like that again.

VR

 

Feel free to discuss the problems I have already listed... keep in mind that no amount of discussion would have corrected what had to be replaced on my car.

VR

 

Once you address my injector needs on a stock engine, please address all of the problems on my list as well. I would love for you to tell me about how a small sealed bearing will last on a high speed pulley.. or how sucking hot air off of the back of a radiator will help cool down High IAT numbers.. How about describing a correction for the restrictive shroud and a fan that doesnt move enough CFM to cool the engine? What about how that little fan was actually restricting free flowing air at freeway speeds? Yep, we can say that kit was very well though out.

Just one question to you.. do you work for ATI? Did you come here just to address my injector issue? IMO, the injector thing although important (and only cost me $500 to replace) was the least of my problems... Throwing belts, burning up sealed bearings in pulleys, overheating, and limping home with a POS ATI kit were the main issues... So lets start with the big stuff and work our way down to the little things.

I had pretty much moved on from this issue that was already delt with over 2 years ago. Anytime someone asks me about how I like the Procharger.. I tell them dont buy the ATI kit... but a kit from someone else that uses parts to make it work correctly. Now we have a person who is really willing to chew the fat about a 38 lb injector instead of talking about the rest of the issues... so give it your best shot... Hey, what about starting a new thread with all you wealth of corrections that you really want/need to talk about... This should be good.

VR

 

I say we settle this with (Good Fuel,Clutch smell,Rubber warming and cool temps!) ON THE STREET(non public of course)!!!!!

We'll see who's really works and who's will start to cry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Hot Damn! I've been spending the last two months exclusively in the General section. The very first thread I open up in FI and what a great read! Honestly even though I've read every single post in this thread, and chuckled and grinned all the way through... I seriously doubt I could tell you what this thread is about

www.speedfreak.cc/forumpics/arguing.jpg

 

It's all about pictures, pictures of the new bracketry from ATI. 97 friggin posts and not one photo.

But we got a new ATI cheerleader though. Welcome E.A.

VR,
You're being uncharacteristically and unusually patient here with EA. Are you on Meds?

There will always be those who will never learn from others misfortune and experience. But not me. Keep on posting, you've saved me a bundle of cash.

 

I will accept a welcome to the site, though as far as the cheerleading goes... I think I made it clear I have nothing to do with that. I also wasn't defending ATI's kit issues. I was talking about general things that were in error...that any person involved in performance could tell you.

I did nothing but try to bring some education to the table. If you don't like that sort of thing on this forum, thats cool. I'm not going to loose any sleep over not posting. I deal with this stuff, day in and day out. I went to school to be an ME, and currently two cars I have built are being featured in the next couple months in National Magazines. This is not stated to say I am better then you...it's just to say, "I have been around" and am far from a newbie.

Why is it, that in this thread, anytime anyone says anything that comes close to saying their supercharger kit worked...they get flammed for being a cheerleader or personally insulted?

Have a great weekend all,
EA

PS: VR I am sorry that I thought you stated something about the smokemup.com site. I was scanning though the post, and thought it was you that stated that. I don't have time to post about every issue that you stated... If you would like feel free to send me a PM with some contact information, and the next time I am in Cali I'll gladly buy you a couple beers and tell you about my expereinces. (If you don't drink, then starbucks is always an option)

PSS: Just last night I was out at a local "hang out" and saw a Red C5 that had the new brackets on it. Sorry I didn't have my camera, or I would have snapped some shots of it for you. Also, I talked to the owner for about 15min, and told him to check out this site and post up some info. He did say that car was stock (I even noticed it didn't even have a cat back on it yet,...unheard of for a corvette. LOL) He said it had the 38lb injectors and the rest of the kit was just how it came from ATI. Only difference is that he had LS1 edit done for the computer tuning. He seemed like a happy camper...and had 2000miles on the supercharger thus far.