Do you people think the only people that buy ATI kits are readers of this forum or similar forums? If so, you live in a small, small world. You guys have sampled only a very minute portion of ATI sales, but have concluded they are crap by these findings. I would be interested in what the total number of kits sold are vs. the number of kit purchasers that have complaints.

 

I think you bring up a valid point. I have met people who have the ATI on their car that was installed by a shop. They were running 410 RWHP and they were completely happy with their car. I have also met people who installed their own ATI kit, ran 470 rwhp and after running traces actually didnt like what they saw.

I think if everyone who had the kit installed had a good understand of how the engine ran, then were able to run traces on the engine, then understand what they were seeing. I highly doubt that they could be happy with the results...

If one never ran traces on a car with the ATI kit... one would never know how the engine was actually running. Thus IMO, we have a large group of people who can honestly say they are very happy because of the fact that they truly dont know how the car is running.


If you dont remember the results of an ATI kit on a C5, let me refresh your memory.

1. Intake temps through the roof

2. Cooling fan, not cooling properly and prone to failure

3. Idler pulley's burning up

4. Belts slipping

5. 2 or more consecutive WOT runs got the IAT's so hot the engine was pulling timing and reducing HP

6. The elimination of front effective brake ducts

7. The inability of the twin intercoolers to actually cool down in a timely fashion.

8. Too much plumbing, too many bends = heat generation

9. injectors included in the kit which ran over 80% duty cycle.

10. restrictive shroud, blocking 40% of airflow through the rad.

This is what happened on my car as well as others here on the forum.. and when we called ATI to ask about what to do.. we were told "this is the first time we have heard about this" Even months later when new members who just installed the kit had the same problems called ATI... the answer from ATI was the same.. "this is the first time we have heard about this" All I could do was laugh about it while I spent money fixing my ATI kit to what it is today.

So if they have honestly improved the ATI kit... I would really like to see pictures of it... not in the hopes of bashing it... but with the hopes of the kit not causing the problems for the newbies who are purchasing it in the future.

VR

 

thanks for posting that info. good insight.

that is not though what i have experienced. i never saw really high IATs during back to back runs on the dyno or street. heat soak has never been an issue with my twins. i never experienced pulled timing. i've been running 21 degrees on one of the earliest stock kits, and my ls1 wanted even more timing. made 495 rwhp with 21 degrees. the car was begging for more timing and would have taken 22-23 degrees easily.

and yes, we spent alot of time on the street tuning the car and datalogging/monitoring.

this is just my experience. maybe my ls1 is a freak, or maybe it is something about the weather in KC. or maybe my tuners/installers put the pimp tune on my ls1. i suspect it is a little bit of "all of the above".

 

VR,

I gave up on this thread because it has come down to politics. Some here are blinded by their egos. What you just said was a profound recap of the ATI debalce and still you get "Not on mine it didn't."

I'm the guy that if something will work 99% of the time, I'll be the 1%. I certainly am not game to chance a purchase on a 50% 60% or 70% reliability factor. Hell even a 90% reliability factor when other products are available and better.

I hope anyone new to FI and is considering an ATI unit would just think twice before buying the factory setup. Anything with this much controversy can't be good. As they say "caveat emptor."

 

i think you're missing the whole point that several of us have been making: a dozen people complaining on corvetteforum is less than a drop in the bucket for the number of C5 ATI kits sold. you guys are throwing numbers around, like you have done above, when you have ABSOLUTELY NO SOLID NUMBERS WHATSOEVER ABOUT THE PERCENTAGES OR NUMBERS OF ATI PROBLEMS. your sample here on CF is so small that it is not reliable. do you understand the basics of statistics?

and there was no "ATI debacle" with my car. and no, mine didn't do what VR described. you seem to be offended that my ATI kit was perfectly fine. or you simply refuse to believe it. whatever. my ATI kit has been great whether you like it or not. get over it.

then stop whining about ATI and go buy a Vortech.

and what kind of expert are you on the ATI kit? how many have you installed yourself? how many ATI C5s have you tuned? do you install ATIs for a living?

 

looks like you are not getting some of the basics here. i'm not going to expound on every issue, but a couple of things jumped right out ...

"8. Too much plumbing, too many bends = heat generation"

thats just plain wrong. more plumbing = cooler air. thats why the rear mounted turbo kits (STS) don't need an intercooler.

"9. injectors included in the kit which ran over 80% duty cycle."

wrong. you want your injectors to be operating at at least 80%. otherwise, you won't get proper spray. 80-90% is the proper range.

with these basic errors, its no wonder that ATI didn't agree with you.

 

Oh Lord, not this argument again.

I've never seen either side change their opinion...thus I don't see the point of arguing it any more.

And on a side note, I'd trust VR's experience with cars a bit more than most. I'm not taking sides...just saying that he knows his cars.

 

Excuse me, We'll go with your numbers. One Dozen people have issues with the ATI kit here on the forum. Let's exclude the F-body forum for now. We are a small sample of total C5 Corvette owners but my guess is that we are a larger percentage of modified C5 corvette owners, as it is normal to reach out far and wide to learn what we can before jumping in to Forced induction. Let's say that 100 folks here have the ATI kit from ATI. Well that sucks for you does'nt it. Let's say... 300 folks have the ATI kit. that's 4% that have problems large enough to be concerned. Let's say that of those people that have the ATI kit that only 50% are daily drivers. Let's say that of those that are daily drivers, that only 50% of them have enough miles on their cars with the kit installed to begin shreading the belts. That's now ~16% of ATI car with issues. Those are reasonable numbers to work with. Now you prove otherwise! Your lone voice of personal success does not make me comfortable nor some others I would guess. We could play these games all week, but the simple truth is, The problems that have been expressed here can be quite serious and costly. You should acknowledge that at least. These problems are not minor and they may be typical.
What about the folks that don't have a voice on a forum and bought the kit through a magazine ad or internet search and now can't resolve the problems and hate their C5 because of it. Yes we all have a voice here but not everyone participates in these forums. Don't just brush them aside, as you did with VR and Shinobis'z who have personally experienced these problems and only hope to alert new comers to the "potential" pitfalls.

I'll concede, "debacle" is a strong word. Let's use oversite. And again, I'm HAPPY for you. I believe you when you say your car ROCKS! let it go! It's not about you. I don't know you. I've never met you or your car. I have no opinion on your car and it's performance. Have I been clear enough. Crap!

By no means. I love my head unit. It's the kit and brackets we're discussing here. They make an awsome blower. But like any big company like GM they tried to shove a square peg into a round hole, so to speak and should have taken more time to prepare the kit for sale. And further more, should have either addressed the issues on an individual basis or recalled the problem parts in total. Neither of which has happened as far as I can tell. So stop griping about GM when Procharger is no better. The good news, some tuners have figured it out and still buy the head unit from ATI and make it work better for their clients.


Expert? No. However, I did my own install and had a professional tune it. And you, who installed yours? Never mind, it's not germain to the topic.

Gee look...NO PICTURES yet. I wonder why? Post the frigg'n photos so the guys that know can comment. That's all HOGURT wanted from the start. and I concur.

 

Crap. Another ATI success story was just posted,

"I have the updated size and bearings(got them 10 months ago) not sure if is a newer setup. I hear a chirp at first and then a constant screech. the noise comes and goes.it all looks fine...no lock up.should i be worried?"

Tatooed, care to comment on statistics?

new thread posted

 

"8. Too much plumbing, too many bends = heat generation"

Edit:
"8. Too much plumbing, too many bends = HIGH PSI LOSS"
8b. Requires smaller pulleys to compensate for lost flow, increasing temperatures while compressing more air, compensating for PSI Lost to greater plumbing length and plumbing turns.

Anyone note the poor quality, efficiency and flow rates of the ATI Intercoolers? They become a restriction above 600rwhp.

But can someone specify what exactly ATI has addresses and what is included in their new kit? I'm curious.

Plz, no more politics. The 'original' ATI kits sucked and ATI's Customer Service sucks, but what is New in the 'New Kit'??

 

Tattooed, Its ok if you dont agree with me... I dont have a problem with that. Although I was being kind when I said that the injectors were running above 80%... they were actually running at 153%.

You know man... its ok if you are happy with your FI setup. I am happy with mine. I had to spend more to get mine the way I like it. I feel that my Kit didnt deliver like I thought it would, and IMO, that should be ok with you too.

VR

 

Dr. Coffee,

You wrote, "We could play these games all week, but the simple truth is, The problems that have been expressed here can be quite serious and costly. You should acknowledge that at least".



Mello Yellow,

I agree with your 8 and 8b, well said. I think someone may have mentioned it in this thread, but I think ATI has also switched to larger twin intercoolers in their new kit?

I love when threads like this get started. Despite the heated debate, a ton of useful information is always shared on this forum and that's really what I am looking for.

 

Hogurt,

If you decide to go play down at Rt66 for their test and tune nights (Tuesdays) let me know. I'd like to go head to head and see the difference in gearing.

 

8c. Smaller pulleys create more boost/flow and more heat. Smaller pulleys are more prone to belt slippage.

 

so you're just going to make up more numbers now??? i never pretended to post any authoritative numbers.

i think you missed the point of my earlier comment. i was not trying to gripe about GM. i was simply pointing out that ATI really would not be impressing anybody if they handles problems the way GM has.

wrt your accusation that i griped about GM, i challenge you to find a post anywhere on any forum where i complain about GM. i went through the oil consumption issues, the repeated column locks, the leaky diffs, the leaky trannys, the plugged AC drains, etc, and i went for months without my car, and had to have the fixes done repeatedly before they were permanently fixed. but i never posted any "i hate GM" or "GM sucks!" or "F GM" comments. and even if i did, i'd drop it after my first comment and move on. i wouldn't keep harping on it for years and trying to discredit GM and run them into the ground. but thats just me.

i'll see about it. i'm really not that motivated to do it though. i'm sure that, regardless of what i post, that you and a handful of others will rip it apart. heck, i could post pictures of Jenna Jameson naked and holding the ATI parts, and you'd complain that the damned ATI tensioner makes her ***** look too small.

 

nope, i dont care to comment. i have no idea what is causing the guys problems. based on your stats though, i guess this one case above bumps up the % of ATI kits with "severe problems" from 90% to 100% though. i think its time for you to call Ralph Nader!

 

the ICs that come with the kits are designed for lower hp applications - for the hp levels that they advertise. they work great on the stock kits and the tuner kits when making a bit more hp. if you want more power then, sure, big ICs or a SIC setup would be better. to blame ATI for the ICs though is like blaming GM for not including a 1000rwhp clutch in their C5s. silly.

 

"9. injectors included in the kit which ran over 80% duty cycle."

oh, ok. i read that differently. sounds like you are saying that they should not be running above 80%. they should be at 80-90% to get proper spray. i don't see how 38lb injectors on an otherwise stock car will run at 153% - maybe on a modded h/c car, but then again thats why ATI didn't include injectors in the D series tuner kit.

i may not agree with you on everything, but i definitely respect the fact that you try to keep things technical, and have not resorted to calling me names. as the great philosopher Ali G says: "Respect".

 

Dr. Coffee,

Your wrote, "
Hogurt,

If you decide to go play down at Rt66 for their test and tune nights (Tuesdays) let me know. I'd like to go head to head and see the difference in gearing".

I would love to. I expect my car to be completed this week, then we will start getting it tuned up. I don't know how long the tuning will take. . .I am not having the car dyno tuned. Instead, we are using team ZR-1 to tune with live readings from the computer. I expect it will take 2-3 weeks to get everything worked out. Then I would love to take a road trip. I too, would like to see the difference in gearing. I will IM you when I find out for sure.

 

VR I have listed the same things you did (for the most part) going back for 2 years on other threads regarding the same thing. It is always Tattoo and Hogurt...one of them doesn't even have the stock ATI system anymore..probably because deep down inside he knows it was a POS. I am through, this is for the newbies beware of anything coming out of the ATI factory, and that includes their horrible customer service. Some on here are buddies with ATI and they are very close in Kansas....I guess ATI is OZ for the Kansas crowd, its hard for a few to click their heels to come back home, because home equals reality, and reality is that the ATI C5 kit is not at the same level as the other Tuner ATI kits and you are wasting your time and money if you think you can get better results out of them.