My question is, how much boost can you run on a stock cubed forged motor? This is with pump gas on the street. Obviously going forged protects the motor from blowing up but, running a forged motor with lower compression how much more power can you get with the forged?

Stock zo6 motors with A@A kit are usually 550 rwhp

How much more on a forged 347 ls6 motor with correct compression?

 

Over 1000 hp....seriously
Check Cartek
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=897216

 

I mean only supercharger, not turbo.

 

Have not heard much about that car in a while. Very strong though. I think those numbers were on race fuel though...not positive. Should see alot more of that car as the weather starts to warm up and events start to roll.

My car is a 346 and has made 790 RWHP on race fuel and 16lbs of boost. I have made 710 RWHP on pump gas and 14lbs. The 346 is capable of making plenty of power on pump gas and handling boost. Personally 700 RWHP on the street is obnoxious so I am going to build a 427 F1R car and make over 1000 RWHP.....I am going for grotesque now. Good luck with your decision.

 

So 620-650 rwhp is not out of the question? I know how sick your ride is. I have about 15k to spend. I figure A&A Or ECS kit and a forged 347 can be done for that. Getting ready for the refi and to have sick power.

 

I have decided to go back to an LS1/LS6 block. I am going to forge the entire bottom end now instead of leaving a stock crank in. I will use an Eagle 3.622 crank and h-beam 6.125 rods tied in with a DM Performance Main girdle and ARP studs. Pistons will be JE with Total Seal rings. Heads are going to be AFR 205's and will be o-ringed held down with an ARP stud kit. And with some luck I will see 700+RWHP
and all done on pump gas............

 

In the same boat as you with similar motor work on a 383.

 

Good luck bro!!! I know you can do it!!!!

 

Here's the PERFECT short block for what you want to do, and it's a KILLER price!

LS6/forged short block............

 

Not necessarily true. Optic has later model cars making more hp than you indicated. Might want to contact him for more info.

I would contact OpticZ or ECS, Optic built EATRices car and he has built some 04 cars making over 650rwhp with his modded fuel system. ECS and Optic seem to compliment each other and have consistantly backed up their performance figures on and off the dyno. I would also recommend a TT since you are starting from scratch also. There is a reason that more and more TT kits are being developed. Even ECS is going down that road. They are going to have to change their name to East Coast Forced Induction or East Coast Boost..or something like that.

Stay away from Z Gap Total Seal rings...mine didn't seat at all. Go with the same rings that Road Rebel or OpticZ has recommended in the past. As far as the crank is concerned the only reason to not use the stock crank (providing its still good) is if you are trying to increase the stroke (more tq) which is not really necessary with a TT. As far as the strength of the stock crank. Harlan has ran 170mph low 8 sec 1/4 mile in a TT Fbody...stock ls1 crank. So its kind of easy to figure out that the crank is very well supported. The parts that need the most attention are the Pistons, Valve Springs, and Rods, in that order. I you were to replace just those 3 things in your motor, the motor would be just as prepared to under go the rigors of forced induction as it would if you had a forged crank. But its only money.

 

Vettethret, what is not addressed here is the Fuel System. You can't go over 500-550 RWHP without completely changing your fuel system cause you and I have the new 03-Up Fuel System.
The back of your car will have to completely come off. You can either buy 02-Earlier C5 tanks, fuel lines, etc and change to an 02-Earlier fuel system or run a custom high HP fuel system like the one EatRice has or like the FLP high HP fuel system. If you decide to change to an 02-Earlier system, you will be looking at $2,000 - $2,500 all installed.

I don't know how much the custom MDMC or FLP fuel systems cost. EatRice and Gary (Z06Gman) can help you on that.

If I were you, I would get a custom fuel system that will support high HP's, get a forged LS2 402 CID shortblock (no cylinder sleeves or any of that crap), put O-ringed AFR heads on, and put a A&A or ECS F1-R kit on that thing and run it around 12-13 pounds on 8-rib belt. You will definitely be over 700 RWHP by then.

Good luck whatever you decide to do with your car.

 

Hindsite being 20/20, I would have just bought an 02 and avoided this whole fuel thing all together. I've already ripped this suspension, brakes, interior apart anyway. I knew I could count on Shinobe who knows his stuff. I'll be getting my car back Monday after 2 months and don't know if I want to wait on a turbo. I also like the whine of the supercharger at a light. I just dont want this to get so involved that it ends up costing 25k for power I cant put down anyway. Shiat, I already have 50k in this thing as it is. What to do...

 

NEVER COUNT UP the $$$$$$$$$ and "ENJOY THE CAR"

 

Yea, I agree, I am over 200K in mine...I know a few forum members that are around the same as me.
Its a lot of fun, but now I look at my car as an exotic.
Jon

 

LISTEN TO THIS:



i bought 02 complete system along with 97 lines for $350!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Dude you have an awesome car. What I have learned in this modding business is that you can't be too tuner dependant. Alway's look for the guys/tuners that are making things happen and not giving you any excuses why it can't happen. Every successful tuner has something they can hang their hat on, otherwise they would not be a success, but a lot tend to get stuck in a rut (especially when they think they know it all and quit taking in new or wrong information), or until something comes along and re-inspires them (pushes them out of their comfort zone) about what they are doing. Success depends on information. On the flip side of that, you have to watch the ones that are potentially full of crap too.

Here is my suggestion. If your motor is not blown up, throw some 76cc heads on the car and go with a TT setup...you have quite a few to pick from (I recommend PTK or TTiX) not really a fan of the fender turbo or rear mounted turbos, but that is just my opinion, doesn't mean they don't work. I would recommend a blower, but everyone and their mother has an ATI D1 these days, with a peak dyno number over 600rwhp (flame suit on...but I really don't care because it is what it is). I got a D1 over 2 years ago (if it was then what it is now, I would still have one)...the only reason I purchased a D1, was because I couldn't afford LPE (at least I thought I couldn't, my hindsite 20/20 is I could have kept my 97 coupe and had an LPE TT 427..oops).

Back to the front, You can easily make 600+ to the rear wheels without forging the motor. The truth of the matter is, with 19" wheels and stiff side wall tires...your not going to really want anything over 600+ on the street anyway (except for showing your buddy a dynograph with some peak hp number @6500rpms), 550-600 will be plenty. When comparing an SC to a TT, keep in mind the tq curve of a TT setup vs. that of a Centrifugal S/C. This is where the Turbo seriously surpasses a centrifugal supercharger (granted the F1Rs are awesome) but we are talking street application. However, the wrong turbo setup is very frustrating...you don't want a turbo that reaches max boost at 1800 rpms but quits making power after 4500..I really recommend reading Maximum Boost by Corky Bell or his Supercharging Book.

Most dyngraphs on an ls1 with a D1, show peak tq is about 4500-5000 rpms, right at the end of the mid range. Which is ok, but tq is what makes you move not hp, hp makes you go fast at the end, because it is max rpm (tq X rpm =hp). Traction becomes the biggest issue, this is why most H&C setups will spank an overdone D1 or TT car on the street...at least for the first mile. This is the nice part about having a boost controller with a Turbo, you can run some high boost dyno run that shows what the hp capabilities are, without snapping everything in the drivetrain (dynojet does not place the load on the drivetrain like a hard launch/slicks do at the dragstrip). Just ask Paul Z06 and Road Rebel, both have had drivetrain issues because of the serious amount of tq their setups are making..but that is under extreme conditions, that you will probably never subdue your ride too. The boost controller allows more power options. One setting for the street and one for the strip. That to me makes it pretty damn cool.

Here is the other thing to consider, only 1 D1 powered stock cube car has busted into the 9's (without NOS) that is OpticZ. He used a 6 rib at that, which to me validates the modifications he made to the ATI in the harshest conditions. For this reason, I have recently purchased some fuel components from Optic that he says he uses on every setup...03+ cars too. It might be worth your time to give him a ring. As for the 9's sec 1/4 mile time, there has been a lot of others attempting to do so with other people's setups..most have been lucky to get into the mid 10's, but yet their dynograph shows 650+rwhp..what do you think that is...I will give you a hint...it is either the belt slipping or a peak hp number skewing the actual power number under the curve.

Also Xtrememotorsports completed a custom fuel system that worked awesome on a newer vehicle....72+psi on an F1R 382 cid....that is proof in the pudding right there. A couple of reasons I did not go with Xtreme's fuel system is that I already have some fuel system upgrades, and my new Alternator is very close to the end of the passenger side fuel rail, although I have been told the crossover could be tapped in other locations. But so far Xtreme's and OpticZ's fuel systems seem to work very well and are tucked well out of the way so that nothing external to the car could damage the lines and start a fire.

 

I said it before and I'll say it again, you're a pimp! One of my concerns on a turbo is the torque is down low, and since the car is only street driven would be to much for the small azz side wall of the 305/25/20. Thats why I liked the D1, power onset letter so I wouldnt blow the tires off right away. I've heard you suggest this more than once about just doing the heads rather than the whole forged motor, is it as safe as the forged motor? Would I have a lot more security versus just throwing the blower on a stock car. tHANKS FOR YOUR INUT, IT HELPS A LOT.

 

Stay away from Z Gap Total Seal rings...mine didn't seat at all. Go with the same rings that Road Rebel or OpticZ has recommended in the past. As far as the crank is concerned the only reason to not use the stock crank (providing its still good) is if you are trying to increase the stroke (more tq) which is not really necessary with a TT. As far as the strength of the stock crank. Harlan has ran 170mph low 8 sec 1/4 mile in a TT Fbody...stock ls1 crank. So its kind of easy to figure out that the crank is very well supported. The parts that need the most attention are the Pistons, Valve Springs, and Rods, in that order. I you were to replace just those 3 things in your motor, the motor would be just as prepared to under go the rigors of forced induction as it would if you had a forged crank. But its only money. [/QUOTE]

Hey Kevin thanks for the info on the rings talked to Phil and that is the rings that he is running

Kevin

 

A properly designed TT system for the street is very smooth. I drove Jim Hall's TT and I didn't even want to drive my old TTi afterwards. My old TTi was explosive like a shot of NOS, while Jim's TT came on very smooth and controllable...that is a huge tribute to a well thought out designed TT street system. It looks like it did pretty good in the 1/4 mile too. A pure drag TT system comes on later in the RPM range but continues to pull in upper rpm range..not a desirable feature for a street car. I don't want my above post to be misinterpretted about these modified D1 setups..they are awesome!

The biggest weakest link in the LSx is the pistons. I used the term "Forged Bottom End" loosely, but really I am only referring to the pistons and rods. The stock crank is fine and only needs to be replaced if you are going for more stroke. Even LPE uses a new GM Crank on their forged bottom ends (according to their website). Having forged pistons is going to give you added security in case something goes wrong...like bad gas..extreme temperature change/change in density-boost. Although with HPtuning's new 3 bar software, temperature drops should not effect the tune as the tune will not be subject to using only VE (set amount of fuel at rpms during wot). Forged Pistons are definetly worth every penny, and why your in there do some forged rods. I would recommend using flat tops with the standard -2cc valve reliefs and larger chamber heads, only if you want the flexibility of being able to revert to stock or a H&C setup should you decide to sell your parts or car in the future. If you are certain you are going to keep your car, and FI forever (is there any other way?) than I would go with a dished piston and smaller chamber to lower the CR...but once you take this route,you are stuck with it. In order to get back to stock or a Heads & Cam setup you would have to disassemble the whole rotating assembly and rebuild it with flat top pistons. This is why I like to use flat top forged pistions and larger chambered heads to lower compression...I like the added flexibility and get the same result.

 

I said you won't be able to put down more than 550 RWHP in a 03-Up vette with the new fuel system without upgrading or changing the fuel system. Optic (MDMC), ECS, XTREME and maybe others have gone far beyond 550 RWHP on 03-Up vettes but they have upgraded the whole fuel system.

Basically all you can do is install a Boost-A-Pump on 03-Up vettes and call it a day if you don't want to rip the back of the car off and take fuel tanks off, etc..... Stock fuel system plus a Boos-A-Pump with a blown motor will start leaning out after 550 RWHP. Just not enough fuel pressure. The more air you feed into a motor, the more fuel you need.

I would also like to know more about the Custom Fuel Systems Optic (MDMC), ECS, FLP, XTREME and maybe some others are offering for 03-Up cars.