I have seen many a 350Z on a road course - they are no match for a Z06 - on a short auto-x it would come down to the driver, as power is of little value, a stripped down Honda Civic can beat a Vette if the Auto-X is set up tight, and the Honda has better suspension and tires.

There is always a faster car, and a better driver.

Les

 

On a road course... I assume that means a road course like SPA, Silverstone, Mangy Cors, or Circuit de la Sarthe (LeMans).

On an Autocross (SCCA SOLO II)... well, that is very different.
It might be interesting to see how a Saleen N2O would do at an SCCA SOLO II competition.

Whichever meaning you apply to "road course", I feel there has to be some combination of used car and mods that outperforms a stock Z06 with a $32k limit on price. However, for $32k, you could get a higher milage Z06 with some mods. I think this is a foolish comparison.

Although I think the 350Z is a nice looking car, I agree with Jay Leno's review. It is a blah performer that, although, sporty, misses the mark in performance and sports car feel.

In the end, there can be only one, and the one is Corvette Z06... the Legend Lives.

dave

 

I guess I could of defined what I was asking little better. I was looking for a vehicle at a common price that could be modified still able to be driven daily that could out perform a stock Z bought at a fair price. I wasn't looking for bargins or special deals or other zs. I said road course because I was wanting a all around car. Example buying a mid 90s mustang supercharger suspension brakes could be bought for under 32,000 would it be even close?

 

I have always felt that these cars were unbeatable for the money. I hear a the time from people that there cars could be modifed and beat mine. I bought mine they are building their own. They are never done to test the claim big surprise.

 

I currently have an 02 Z06 and have had two Supra's (one BPU at 400rwhp and one Single turbo at 510 rwhp). I have also driven a 350Z, an STI, and an EVO RS to their limits. I have also spent time in a n/a 911, S2000, RX7 twin turbo, FMII turbo miata, BMW M Roadster, and an E46 M3.

I certainly do not consider myself an expert driver, but I do have a few DE's under my belt as well as a dozen or so autocrosses.

What I can tell you from my personal experience is that every one of these cars has a special place in my heart for one reason or another... all of them except for the 350Z. It really did nothing for me. I like the looks and the suspension is very well balanced right out of the box, but that is it. To me, it was not a very exciting car to drive.

There are a few cars that can compete with a stock or nearly stock Z06 for the same price (road course not autocross).

- 93-98 BPU Supra with adj shocks/springs or coilovers and larger wheels/tires. Little heavier, but makes up for it with extra power. Today, you may could find a Supra with same mods but with a small single for low $30's???
- 93-95 RX7 turbo with LS1 swap. Can easily be done right for under $32k, which would include engine bolt-ons, wheels and tires, suspension and bump steer kit.
- WRX STI with bolt-ons on tighter courses. The only reason this is on here, is because I believe the average driver (me) finds this car easier to drive fast than the Z06.

Just my $.02

Kirk

 

My kids SRT-4 in a drag race kills the 350Z. Not even close. But he sure needs a handling package. Maybe you ment RX8 instead of Z06.

 

Not quite for $32k, but a Lotus Elise can depending on the course.

 

This was an interesting post. I still think that for the 32K price limit I would buy a used Z06 for 25K and use the rest of the money for the motor upgrades. The suspension is done already for you, maybe some shocks. Good luck in your quest.

 

Given the same driver vs. driver and equal driving skill there is absouletely no other car in stock form that can come close to a used 02+ Z06 on both a Road Race Track and drag strip for that matter!!! BY FAR, the BEST BANG FOR YOUR BUCK as the C5 Z is turn key factory RACE CAR that will outperform cars that cost 3 times as much as the Z!!!

 

Please tell me you aren't serious about this one?

 

A Supra MKIV with a little to medium single and some coilovers will be a real contender. At 1/4 Supra all the way a medium single 67mm will do mid 10 s on 402m.On a roadcourse the hevay weight Supra will have a slight disadvantage but it will still be very good at what it do.

 

Exactly my point above, except the weight of the Supra is not really an issue on any but the tightest road course. The Supra's handling is superb when set up properly. The issue is... I doubt you can get into a single turbo Supra with all the right track goodies for anywhere near low 30's.

I had a 97 Supra with an SP63 ( + all the goodies), nice suspension and wheels and tires. It was a very clean car with low mileage, but sold it about a year ago for $39,500. I picked up a stock 2002 Z06 with 5000 miles and showroom condition a few months later for $33,000. I am very happy with my decision, but I do miss the power of the Supra. Wish I could have both.

In drag racing the 1/4 mile, you are right. The Supra with a single turbo will crush a stock vette, still more money though.

Bottom line is (like everyone has stated) it is very difficult to beat a used stock Z06 for the money.

Kirk

 

I think the original poster wanted to know of cars that would "beat" a stock Z06 on a road course, not just "compete" with, for the same price.

The Supra is a good choice for horsepower per modification dollar contests, drag races, and dyno contests. For a road course it's questionable though. The Supra isn't a "little" heavier, its LOT heavier than a Z06. Almost 600 lbs. heavier. A BPU Supra needs at least 420 rwhp just to match the power-to-weight ratio of a stock Z06. Not a problem for a BPU Supra, but that weight still kills the handling, braking, and balance of the car on a road course. So making up the weight difference with more power doesn't work so well on a road course as it does on a drag strip. We're also talking about suspension and chassis design that is a full generation older than the C5 chassis.

Going with a big single turbo, adds considerable power, but also significantly reduces the driveability of the car on a road course. Smooth power transitions on the road course are important for good times. A big single turbo Supra goes from lag and low power to OMG hang the f**k on for your life, like an on-off switch. It's extremely difficult to drive a car like that fast on a road course at anywhere near 10/10ths.

Having said all this, I HAVE seen two Supras run at Willow Springs that performed very well, and would definitely beat a stock Z06. However, these cars had carbon fiber hoods, hatches (with plexiglass), and totally stripped interiors (nothing but a driver's seat inside), as well as major suspension modifications. They cost way more than $32k, and they were far from reliable (they were tinkering with them all day).

We're also talking about a car that is 4 to 9 years older than an '02 Z06, FWIW.

 

I agree, stock vehicles this car comes closest to the Z06 for similar money.

 

Two different drivers could certainly disagree on which car they would prefer, but certain things are fact that you can not dispute.

1.) My BPU Supra weighed 3550 lbs. My Single turbo Supra weighed 3450 (stock turbos and stock exhaust manifold are heavy). Both were with about 3/4 tank of gas. I have not put my Z06 on the scales, but curb weight is 3118lbs. 3450-3118 = 332lbs.

2.) You have to upgrade the stock Supra suspension, but for $1000-$1200 you can have KYB AGX/Eibach combo or Tein Coilovers that, when set up properly, perform extremely well. Matt Andrews pulled 1.076 G's using the Tein's in USSC on Pilot Sport Cups.

3.) The Supra's stock brakes are very good. Car and Driver reported 70-0 braking in 149 feet. The same magazine got 152 feet for the Z06.

4.) Agree with big single driveability. I had a 63mm with a .68 a/r (small turbo). I would get full boost around 3500 rpm in 4th gear. When I say full boost, I mean max boost. It would start building positive boost as low as 1500 rpm depending on gear and load. On a road course you wanted to keep the Supra above 3800 rpm to make sure you always had immediate power on hand to effectively modulate the throttle through and exiting turns. I NEVER had an issue of being in the wrong gear.

5.) Due to the above my Supra was no more difficult to drive at 10/10ths than the Z06 (ok, this may be considered more opinion than fact).

6.) The Supra is extremely reliable! Even on the road course when it is built properly and run at a reasonable boost level (15-16 psi max). It has similar cooling issues as the vette when run in hot weather and pushed hard. You should run a bigger power steering cooler and good brake ducts. Some say that a larger radiator is necessary, but I never had any issues (I would not run the Supra or Z06 in Summer heat).

7.) I would be faster in my old Supra around the same track than my mostly stock Z06 (opinion again, since I have not been on the same tracks with the Z06 that I ran in the Supra... CMP and Roebling).

8.) Just to clarify the power differences. My Supra at 15psi was making about 430-440 rwhp. My Z06 I estimate at around 360-370 (long tube headers only). In street boost (19 psi) the Supra made 510 rwhp on pump gas.

A single Supra like my old one with low mileage (40-50K) and good quality interior and exterior (similar to what you would find on a Z06 with 10K miles) will cost you in the neighborhood of $38K+. It will beat a stock Z06 in almost every area, but it still costs $6K more! And that is why I am driving a Z06 today!

I think you could find or build a similar Supra today for mid to low $30's, but it will have higher mileage and interior and exterior will not be as nice. I think that was the original question

Sorry to go on so long, but I really enjoy discussing the differences between all types of cars, but specifically these two.

Kirk

 

Huh??? When I checked last, you could not find an Elise for less than $45K. Plus in any situation except auto-x, the Elise will lose. I am sure it is a very fun car to drive at speed. I would love to try one out sometime.

 

Man these supra guys seem to be trying to convince us that a supra is on par with a Z06, get real. My buddy has a heavly modded single turbo supra and talks smack all the time, but won't meet me at the strip, cause he knows I'll eat him for lunch.

 

I am first and foremost a car guy... not a Supra guy or a Z06 guy. I currently own a Z06 and find it is the right car for me Alot of poeple talk about various cars with no real experience. I am just trying to shed a little light where I have direct real world experience owning and driving both cars on the street and track.

I am sure if you go on the Supraforums.com and issue a challenge, you will get someone to meet you at the dragstrip. Just keep it good natured and have fun

Kirk

 

I hope Z06's aren't down to 25k yet.

 

This thread is beginnig to remind me a little of the old Supra vs. vette threads in the old "Kill Stories" section of this forum. Those were the days... You couldn't find more heated debates anywhere online.