[Z06] Downshifting 6 to 5 Problem
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2005
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From: NH
Downshifting 6 to 5 Problem
Newbie here...just took delivery of an '03 Blk/Blk Z06 w/2600 miles yesterday, my 4th Vette. First time out, I found out why people install the CAGS eliminator. What a pain! I've figured out how to beat it in upshifting already but I can't downshift from 6 to 5 at all, must go from 6 to 4. Is this CAGS at work or do I just not know how to shift a manual anymore???
Instructor
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 154
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From: Kansas City Kansas
Originally Posted by bb609
Newbie here...just took delivery of an '03 Blk/Blk Z06 w/2600 miles yesterday, my 4th Vette. First time out, I found out why people install the CAGS eliminator. What a pain! I've figured out how to beat it in upshifting already but I can't downshift from 6 to 5 at all, must go from 6 to 4. Is this CAGS at work or do I just not know how to shift a manual anymore???
No grinding or any noise, just won't go in. Always have to downshift into 4th and then upshift into 5th.
Would be interested to see if anyone knows the fix??? I'm so seldom in 6th gear I just ignore it.
Steve
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,824
Likes: 1
From: Middleboro Massachusetts
Originally Posted by bb609
Newbie here...just took delivery of an '03 Blk/Blk Z06 w/2600 miles yesterday, my 4th Vette. First time out, I found out why people install the CAGS eliminator. What a pain! I've figured out how to beat it in upshifting already but I can't downshift from 6 to 5 at all, must go from 6 to 4. Is this CAGS at work or do I just not know how to shift a manual anymore???
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2005
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From: NH
Originally Posted by zo6vetteman2003
I lost my 5th to 6th gear syncro at 9000 miles, but I could not shift from 5th to 6th when it went. I wonder if your problem is related. I would take it to the dealer, it is still under warranty. The 03's are known for this.
Drifting
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 1,311
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From: Near Philly PA
Any (any?) chance that you're mistakenly going from 6th to reverse, and the reverse-lock-out keeps you from going through the gate?
It's just a thought. Might not be what's happening -- but it's been the case for some folks here (especiially folks who were not yet used to shifting this car).
(To answer the other question, this should have nothing to do with CAGS.)
-Kirk
It's just a thought. Might not be what's happening -- but it's been the case for some folks here (especiially folks who were not yet used to shifting this car).
(To answer the other question, this should have nothing to do with CAGS.)
-Kirk
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2005
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From: NH
Originally Posted by KMeloney
Any (any?) chance that you're mistakenly going from 6th to reverse, and the reverse-lock-out keeps you from going through the gate?
It's just a thought. Might not be what's happening -- but it's been the case for some folks here (especiially folks who were not yet used to shifting this car).
(To answer the other question, this should have nothing to do with CAGS.)
-Kirk
It's just a thought. Might not be what's happening -- but it's been the case for some folks here (especiially folks who were not yet used to shifting this car).
(To answer the other question, this should have nothing to do with CAGS.)
-Kirk
Drifting
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 1,311
Likes: 0
From: Near Philly PA
Originally Posted by bb609
For just this reason, I'm a little leary about installing an eliminator. Does the eliminator eliminate reverse lock out too?
Again, the CAGS defeat has no effect on the reverse lock-out. If you ARE, in fact, attempting to push the shifter into reverse while thinking you're going into 5th, then it's good that the reverse lock-out is working properly!
My driving style is such that I rarely ever see the CAGS light up. If you're new to this car, you might find that you eventually drive the car in such a way that you stop seeing it also. Otherwise, go ahead and install the CAGS-defeat, and don't think about it again.
-Kirk
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Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2005
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From: NH
Originally Posted by KMeloney
Nope. The CAGS-defeat only keeps the CAGS from making you make the 1-to-4 shift. That's it. In fact, the 1-to-4 shift light will still flash -- but you will no longer be forced to go to 4th (or work around the CAGS).
Again, the CAGS defeat has no effect on the reverse lock-out. If you ARE, in fact, attempting to push the shifter into reverse while thinking you're going into 5th, then it's good that the reverse lock-out is working properly!
My driving style is such that I rarely ever see the CAGS light up. If you're new to this car, you might find that you eventually drive the car in such a way that you stop seeing it also. Otherwise, go ahead and install the CAGS-defeat, and don't think about it again.
-Kirk
Again, the CAGS defeat has no effect on the reverse lock-out. If you ARE, in fact, attempting to push the shifter into reverse while thinking you're going into 5th, then it's good that the reverse lock-out is working properly!
My driving style is such that I rarely ever see the CAGS light up. If you're new to this car, you might find that you eventually drive the car in such a way that you stop seeing it also. Otherwise, go ahead and install the CAGS-defeat, and don't think about it again.
-Kirk
And to t56gen3 - Shifts 4 to 5 just fine. Except that others on here have the same problem, I'll guess it's me. I'm waiting for a call back from the dealer. If he sheds any light, I'll post back.
Tks all.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,083
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From: I'm not quite middle aged and I only own one gold chain! San Jose CA
I have no issue with this currently, however when I first bought the car and was driving it home cross country, I did have a problem a couple of times with the downshift from 6th to 5th. I discovered that it was the way I was shifting and that I was missing the gate if you will, by pushing the shifter too close to reverse instead of 5th. When I relaxed and just went straight up (which feels just slightly angled to the left from the drivers position) I hit 5th with no trouble and have had no problem with it since then.
Shifting a manual tranny is muscle memory after a while and if you are used to driving a car with a different tranny the new pattern could be just different enough to be throwing you off because your muscle memory is still shifting the former tranny. This is something to consider, unless the problem is indeed a mechanical one.
Hope you get it resolved soon!
Shifting a manual tranny is muscle memory after a while and if you are used to driving a car with a different tranny the new pattern could be just different enough to be throwing you off because your muscle memory is still shifting the former tranny. This is something to consider, unless the problem is indeed a mechanical one.
Hope you get it resolved soon!
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2005
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From: NH
Originally Posted by Scott04Z
I have no issue with this currently, however when I first bought the car and was driving it home cross country, I did have a problem a couple of times with the downshift from 6th to 5th. I discovered that it was the way I was shifting and that I was missing the gate if you will, by pushing the shifter too close to reverse instead of 5th. When I relaxed and just went straight up (which feels just slightly angled to the left from the drivers position) I hit 5th with no trouble and have had no problem with it since then.
Shifting a manual tranny is muscle memory after a while and if you are used to driving a car with a different tranny the new pattern could be just different enough to be throwing you off because your muscle memory is still shifting the former tranny. This is something to consider, unless the problem is indeed a mechanical one.
Hope you get it resolved soon!
Shifting a manual tranny is muscle memory after a while and if you are used to driving a car with a different tranny the new pattern could be just different enough to be throwing you off because your muscle memory is still shifting the former tranny. This is something to consider, unless the problem is indeed a mechanical one.
Hope you get it resolved soon!
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 10,649
Likes: 31
From: Central Florida
^ I agree with Scott.
Many shifting issues are caused by missing the desired gate. Often this is triggered by forgetting that the shifter centers itself (aligned) on the 3-4 axis. To overcome that centering force, when shifting from 6th to 5th, the driver must push the shifter firmly forward in one motion. If that is not done firmly and briskly, the centering spring will move the shifter left toward 3d and miss the gate for 5th.
I have found that keeping my thumb off the shifter makes for very few missed shifts.
If that isn't the root cause, then it's a synchronizer issue. Pretty unusual for 5th gear.
Ranger
Many shifting issues are caused by missing the desired gate. Often this is triggered by forgetting that the shifter centers itself (aligned) on the 3-4 axis. To overcome that centering force, when shifting from 6th to 5th, the driver must push the shifter firmly forward in one motion. If that is not done firmly and briskly, the centering spring will move the shifter left toward 3d and miss the gate for 5th.
I have found that keeping my thumb off the shifter makes for very few missed shifts.
If that isn't the root cause, then it's a synchronizer issue. Pretty unusual for 5th gear.
Ranger
Last edited by Ranger; Nov 29, 2005 at 06:24 PM.
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,824
Likes: 1
From: Middleboro Massachusetts
If you take a look on ZO6Vette.com, you will see that alot of people have had syncros replaced under 15000 miles. I happen to be one of them. You also may have a bent shift fork, like you said, the dealer will be able to determine the problem. They had mine for a week to do the work.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,155
Likes: 56
From: Escondido CA
gee-the cags is so simple to install-go for it-when in traffic its so nice to be able to creep up in 1st and gently shift to 2nd, instead of being forced to 4th( which is how gm gets around the gas guzzler tax)..downshifting has nothing to do with the cags defeat..i have never had a prob going into 5th and i do it alot on the frwy..when cruizing in 6th and needing to lane change or speed up ....just watch out with going into 3rd accidently-no rev limit downshifting ..heard some horror stories with that happening...
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,083
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From: I'm not quite middle aged and I only own one gold chain! San Jose CA
Originally Posted by bb609
Took it out for a nice long ride today and I still can't hit 5 from 6. I've been driving manuals for a LONG time and I know I could be hitting reverse but it feels like I'm going up to 5 and it will start to go into gear a little but just won't go all the way. If I stop pushing on it and come back to neutral, I'm screwed then because then it only goes to 4. ??? I can drop it into 4 and then go up to 5 but... Going to the dealer on Tuesday. We'll see.
May well be that you've got a synchro or other internal issue. Here's hoping you get it resolved quickly and easily!
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2005
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From: NH
Originally Posted by zo6vetteman2003
If you take a look on ZO6Vette.com, you will see that alot of people have had syncros replaced under 15000 miles. I happen to be one of them. You also may have a bent shift fork, like you said, the dealer will be able to determine the problem. They had mine for a week to do the work.
Otherwise, this car is AWESOME!!!
jobberone
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,062
Likes: 8
From: Kailua Kona HI
Let us know what happens.
Also look at your pedal play and make sure it's adjusted right and you are released when all the way to the floor.
If you have an early synchro problem then you may get by with a clutch not all the way out in all but one gear....the one with the weak synchro. And you are making the other synchros work extra hard which will prematurely wear them out.
Make sure the master and slave have the proper fluid and seals and work properly with no air. If one or both of these are relatively new then the previous owner may have had this problem and tried to fix it.
Make sure the shifting mechanism is in proper working order including all springs.
Hope it's something simple.
Also look at your pedal play and make sure it's adjusted right and you are released when all the way to the floor.
If you have an early synchro problem then you may get by with a clutch not all the way out in all but one gear....the one with the weak synchro. And you are making the other synchros work extra hard which will prematurely wear them out.
Make sure the master and slave have the proper fluid and seals and work properly with no air. If one or both of these are relatively new then the previous owner may have had this problem and tried to fix it.
Make sure the shifting mechanism is in proper working order including all springs.
Hope it's something simple.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,252
Likes: 0
From: NH
Originally Posted by Ranger
^ I agree with Scott.
Many shifting issues are caused by missing the desired gate. Often this is triggered by forgetting that the shifter centers itself (aligned) on the 3-4 axis. To overcome that centering force, when shifting from 6th to 5th, the driver must push the shifter firmly forward in one motion. If that is not done firmly and briskly, the centering spring will move the shifter left toward 3d and miss the gate for 5th.
I have found that keeping my thumb off the shifter makes for very few missed shifts.
If that isn't the root cause, then it's a synchronizer issue. Pretty unusual for 5th gear.
Ranger
Many shifting issues are caused by missing the desired gate. Often this is triggered by forgetting that the shifter centers itself (aligned) on the 3-4 axis. To overcome that centering force, when shifting from 6th to 5th, the driver must push the shifter firmly forward in one motion. If that is not done firmly and briskly, the centering spring will move the shifter left toward 3d and miss the gate for 5th.
I have found that keeping my thumb off the shifter makes for very few missed shifts.
If that isn't the root cause, then it's a synchronizer issue. Pretty unusual for 5th gear.
Ranger
1. grind?
2. have the same problem going 4 to 5?
That's why I'm thinking something else like a fork or something internal. Still can't discount the driver either but until they can show me that it shifts normally or how to, it's stays at the dealer until it's fixed. Keep ya posted!