It seems to me that his questions pretty much get at the issue you raise. So, I consider his questions to be interesting and to have the potential for inducing all of us to think more about your point. I agree that feeling good or bad about oneself for reasons other than what is going on internally is not ideal, but it does reflect the reality of humanity for most. And, note that Z_Oh_6 never said that he needed validation or vindication. He just raised some interesting issues.

I for one would prefer that we all forum refrain from insulting others, flaming, and not showing respect for others and their opinions. I am not picking on you. I am just noting that my preferences aren't exactly adhered on our forum--nor should they be.

 

no Vette is 2nd class

 

I don't know about that... some of those early 70's models were pretty pathetic performance wise... A 350 cubic inch engine with 190hp was pretty sad.
It was the time when emissions were introduced and GM didn't do a very good job of it...

 

I disagree to some extent... I believe un-modded Z06's will bring more money as collectors look for original cars as close to production as possible.
Mods will not be important 20 years from now as collectors will be buying them not enthusiasts. Those into performance driving will go for the latest models which have the support of the aftermarket... of course there are exceptions to the rule...

 

It is one thing to state that one car out performs another, but something quite different to state that the owner of the other car is second class or driving a second class automobile. What you are saying is that you or someone else appointed you judge and jury. The person with 650 hp can call the one with only 600 hp second class, but then there will be someone approaching 700 hp. When we start worrying about labels others place on us and our cars then we admit to insecurities and the misguided desire to use hp to overcome them.
Wouldn't it be better to acknowledge the person with the slowest vette on the planet as still someone who is a member of a very special group and second class in no way at all? If this person shares our love for a vette isn't that enough? The question was raised as to whether those of us with C5 Zs now feel like second class citizens? Do we need the extra hp to validate ourselves and the answer from many is 'yes', and sadly so. Read the posts and you will see many who offer proof that the C5 Z is better than the C6 vert and coupe as if that makes a difference as to who we are. Why is it so important that we have a car that will outrun a stock C6? The stock C6 will eventually boost hp beyond the C5 Zs and for some it will be a calamity. And as if someone pushed a button, without thought, they will have to do something about it. Only when you are proud of whatever you drive can you lay claim to being a genuine person. As long as your concept of yourself is tied to the number of hp under the hood you've got quite a ways to go.

 

Why must you make everything I say sound like the crime of the century. Why don't you read what I said and not be so damn dramatic about nothing.
Where did you come up with me being judge and jury over something as simple as me expressing my view?
Did I accuse someone of being a second class citizen?
How did you come to this conclusion?
You must be watching too many Matlock episodes..

Maybe you would like to tell us how great the engineering was in the early 70's.
Where is your detailed knowledge of the early 70's vettes. Please enlighten us.. Oh.. thats right.. you only do character critiques... nothing to do with the actual subject matter.

The vette was a victum of bad engineering. It idled like crap, got lousy mileage and had terrible throttle response. It's engine is the soul of the car. Without a proper running engine you get a less than stellar experience. It had an air pump, air injection and other crap to try and reduce emissions. The early converters were very bad on back pressure and clogged easily. It was a bad time for performance and the whole driving experience on many cars back then, especially performance cars.
So why don't you add something constructive... lay off the character studies and relate to the subject.
I never came out and insulted anyone about being second class.. not even close.. The same can't be said about you.

 

I think that you make some good points, but I also think that you are jumping on C5~Missle too hard. His comments were reasonable and not overly controversial. Virtually everyone that has a high-performance car uses it to some extent on the street--some more responsibly than others. Why not just make your points without vilifying someone else? I respect your rights to have your opinions, preferences, and good rants, but I don't think that C5~Missle has much to do with your true "enemy." Please understand that I don't mean to be disrespectful when I mention "rants." I mean to be only descriptively accurate.

Do you do anything while driving that could be dangerous to yourself or others--e.g., drive over the speed limit, drive after having alcohol whether or not feeling the effect, eat while driving, talk on your cell phone while driving, use your laptop while driving, etc., etc.? Assuming you do, then I won't judge you no matter what your foible is. I think it is counterproductive for me to judge others because of either their "major" or "minor" foibles. If I feel the urge to fix someone, then I know that I am the one that needs fixing.

 

I edited your post. I hope you like the edit.

 

No problem... I just don't understand the reactions to my postings... thought I was being quite quite civil and down to earth... Not used to character attacks on here... its usually cars we talk about....

 

I understood. That's why I edited your post so that it reflected what you "really" meant. It looked like you were sort of getting sucked in--with no disrespect meant to Charles7Mitchell. I have noticed a great deal of disrespect, flaming, and insulting on the forum. Maybe it will go away.

 

Anyone can turn their Z back to original in 20 years unless you bore the block, which I find a good thing. Mods. in twenty years? Mods are happening right now. Thanks to some extent to Barrett Jackson for taking custom hot rods and giving them their due. Just look at all the great cable shows now. Guys like Boyd and Foose are doing it right. COPO and Yanko Camaros are going for huge money, because they are rare. Others are investing hundreds of thousands and even millions like Foose for that Riddler Award. I find these guys to have it made in the sun doing something they have a real passion for, and make money for doing it. I agree with what you are saying to some extent too, but find that a 57' Chevy with a Cheverolet 502 big block valuble too. The LS7 crate motor will not only be installed in C6 ZO6's. The amount being built is limited, and they go for over $16K. I will eventually sleeve mine.

 

Questions were raised regarding the need on the streets for the kind of power a Z can produce. As one member noted there are rare occasions where the power could be useful in avoiding an accident. But some of the other examples, such as hitting 60 mph in 3-4 seconds on a freeway ramp in order to squeeze into traffic I believe create unnecessary dangers to others. To try to justify this by stating that this is the way the car is meant to be driven is ridiculous as is the nonsense about being a cancer survivor and somehow having the right to live life to the fullest by tapping in on this power on the streets. Or did you believe you were getting reasonable explanations? I might be more sympathetic, but there are tracks available where people can more safely enjoy the tremendous power of a Z, and if not tracks some isolated back roads.
For those of us who are human there are unforeseen circumstances which, when coupled with tapping the power of a Z, raise the risks of tragic circumstances. If you read the posts of one member he foresees everything and leaves himself plenty of time to overcome whatever he encounters. That sounded superhuman to me. If it was your grandmother who panicked after glancing at someone coming up the ramp at tremendous acceleration, turned into traffic killing your wife and child, would you buy the argument from the other driver that everything was under control and your grandmother shouldn't have been driving in the first place? I felt that a lot of manure was being shoveled my way and said so. Or did you buy the line that you are just as safe in a Z when it is being stomped on as you are in a Honda Civic being driven normally?
I am not a cancer survivor, but had major surgery this summer for diseases in my lower back that will incapacitate me in the near future. More surgery is scheduled for my neck when I recover, and it is surgery that at best may buy me a bit more time. It was suggested to me in a post that I unload my Z for a Buick or Toyota, but I purchased a Z precisely because my time to enjoy may be short. But unlike the other member who feels the brush with cancer gives him the right to raise hell with the system, I view my problems as reason to think life is precious and I have no right to endanger others. You may be right that I have responded too critically. With my own days numbered it does appear that my medical problems have made me a bit intolerant for the clowns and bozos who raise the risks to their own lives and others with stupid and immature stunts on the streets. For that I likely do owe C5 Missile an apology.

 

You (both) sound like a really nice guys, but for your own good, just be careful out there..
I was just out with my 50year old father in his 05 mustang GT. He has been driving high hp rear wheel drive cars his whole life.. He thought he would never be in an accident.. And was always a very spirited driver.

He lost control around a turn with me in it, and flew into a telephone pole almost killing both of us.. Luckily no one was seriously hurt. But we were VERY lucky.
Driveing at speed introduces all kinds of risks..Some are beyond your control.. Just becareful...

 

Feces occurs. That's a fact. Personally I think they should require an expert road racing license to purchase a high performance vehicle - but we all know that's not going to happen. So, I look at it as population control. Like my sig says, those who can do... those who can't die.

 

Thank you for your well-thought out reply. I agree with many of your points and don't want to nit-pick anything that you have said--except referring to others as clowns and Bozos. Remember, the Firesign Theater's immortal words--"We're all Bozos on this bus aren't we." And, then the honking began. I wish you the very best with your health issues. Darn!

 

You're probably right about the clowns and bozos comments. But I suspect most all of us have encountered someone on the streets who has put us at risk. In my own case the words that came into my head would not have been suitable for printing. I've admitted doing things occasionally where those words would have been directed at me, but after the fact I was always a bit embarrassed with myself for the stupidity. It was also easier back then because I was not confronted with diseases to remind me of my own mortality.
As much as anyone I enjoy spirited driving with the Z. I rarely ever spin the rear tires, but do get a jump at the lights. You have to be aware of how often people in other cars decide to stay with a vette and I laugh when I hear how they are stepping on it when I am barely accelerating. It amuses me to think that they might actually think they could stay with me, and once in a great while I bump it up a bit more just to have some fun.
I intended to be harsh. But nothing I can say would be as harsh as frightening another driver with a stupid stunt, or worse, creating an accident. I'll mentioned something else that I believe most of us know for a fact. Too many trucks, SUVs and other vehicles do not see us as well as they do most other cars. When a Z is rocketing up a freeway ramp at a 0 - 60 in 3-4 seconds pace in order to squeeze into traffic it is something else to keep in mind. I hoped some of my comments might be thought provoking and with but one exception did not intend to offend people.

 

Yawn.... thought provoking is hardly the term that describes your post. As far as your exception... it's not worth noting.
Someone else said it best.... "never argue with an idiot, they will only drag you down and beat you with experience".

 

I said I was sorry.

 

Point well taken. Just out of curiosity, if a person posts do you like X Y Z that I did to my car, do you think it's bad "form" to say "no, I don't like it". I think it should be OK to say Yes, No or what ever you really think. It gives the other person a more accurate picture of reality...

I did not intend my comment as a flame. It was just my way to say "enjoy your car".

 

I bet you are..

I wonder why you decided to lock onto my posts. I mean there are so many other wild hotrod street stories on here.. mine pale in comparison. Why do you bother to read this forum at all.. it is the Z06 forum correct? Can't say I ever seen you contribute anything relating to Z06's or performance related info. Your profile shows you don't even own one?
You just hang around to "police" the wild ones and provide words of wisdom to the sinners of speed.
So be it... I know now what your motives are.

You also never followed up on my comments regarding actual facts, like the 2nd citizen post in which you accused me of slandering other vette owners. Always the accusations, but you never have any basis for them or any facts. So what is your little game.. Trolling?

Oh well.. none the matter.. Drive safe and keep to the right..

(no speeding or rubber were harmed in the making of this post. All the laws were followed and everyone made it home safe)