hi Mr. Leadfoot -

I put this battery -

in this car


with no adapter or additional parts necessary. the battery bolted right in.

best regards -

mqqn

 

Costco has the Red-Top

 

I just noticed my lights dim and brighten during deceleration and acceleration on my 02 coupe.
The battery is the original one put in the car Mar, 2002, almost 4 years ago. It is reading 12.4 volts.
What do you think? Is it battery time or do I have an alternator acting up?
I just don't want to get stranded by a dead car one of these days.
Thanks,
Scott

 

GM cars just seem to do that. My Suburban and my Vette both do it intemittently. And, it's not even consistent with acceleration or deceleration.

 

Yechi7,

good questions, I'll try and answer each in order, after this first statement:

No battery is absolutely 'leak-proof'. Whether it is a pure liquid acid (as in normal 'wet cell' ACDelco batteries) or GEL'd acid between flat (AGM) or round (Orbital) plates, it can still leak if the case is compromised (either by cracks or failure of sealant around the posts).

1. the ACDelco AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) composition was desireable based on its 'reduced' chance of leakage and its increased cycle life (number of discharge/recharge cycles, even if deeply discharged).

However, as with everything there are compromises, and the negatives of the ACDelco AGM's were low CCA's (Cold Cranking Amps) and reported complete failures with no warning (possibly due to vibration not typical of other AGM applications, i.e. planes/boats).

My reason for not choosing the Optima and Exide orbital was taken from my boating electrical knowledge. I could not confirm they were true AGM's, but maybe just GEL's in a round format. True AGM's have a charging curve that closely matches that of typical 'wet cells', whereas GEL's require a slightly different charging curve, inclusive of being more sensitive to overcharging. So if they were GEL's, then they would not match the alternator/regulator charging curve. further the Optima had many reports of failures and case cracking.

So, it narrowed the field back to a normal wet-cells.

And a visit to Auto-Zone and BJ's proved their battery options did not include 'maintenance free' chemistry.

Therefore, the ACDelco batteries were the logical conclusion (since Sears was too far away -- possibly made by the same company that makes Optima).

2. 'Maintenance free' is a chemistry specific to 'wet cells', and doesn't apply to AGM or GEL type batteries. 'Maintenance Free' batteries use calcium in their chemistry (instead of antimony?) which reduces gassing and their rate of self-discharge, and therefore less corrosion in/around the battery/terminals. Further, 'maintenance free' means the caps are sealed and there is minimal venting of battery gasses and thereby possible normal leakage terminal corrosion.

Sears' Gold are 'maintenance free', but are still 'wet cells'.

Exide Orbital's attractiveness may be due to its NOT being a 'wet cell' (for those concerned about leakage) and the case seems beefier than the Optima. It may be a good choice, but since Optima's were failing, I was not convinced that the Exide Orbital's would not fail also.

As to which is more important, I would suggest something you didn't mention.

Reliability - The battery needs to be able start the car after you drive it somewhere.

Whereas 'wet cell' batteries are 'older' technology, they typically give hints before they fail and can recover a few times before complete failure (e.g. we had about a 1.5 year warning on our TransAm's).

Corvettes are often 'garage queens', so keeping an eye open for leakage in the garage is relatively easy, as is keeping a charger/battery tender on the battery to keep a 'wet cell' healthier. However, having a AGM/GEL/Orbital battery just fail in the mall parking lot is not easy nor fun and potentially more costly.

Also, acid absorbing mats can be placed under the front half of the battery, further reducing leakage concerns.

So, assuming the choice is 'wet cell', then 'maintenance free' is the next level of importance to get the best possible 'wet cell' option and to possibly match the charging curve of our alternator/regulator.

Last in my priority list would be AGM (if available anymore) or AGM/GEL 'spiral-wound' technology batteries.

In summary,

my reason for recommending ACDelco 75/78 - 6/7yr is GM puts them in C5's ---and---

After all, it is JUST a $100 +/- battery, and if concerned/needed, it could be replaced every year for 'free' just by eating at Burger King instead of Friday's twice per year.

I hope I was able to answer all your questions...

 

According to the Optima site, that's not the recommended battery. Obviously it's working for you, though. Any reason you went with this particular battery?

 

It looks like you have the special puck adapter to hold the battery in place. Does the stock clamp piece not hold that model battery? If not, where did you get it that adapter? That's what I saw on the Optima website, but when my friend called from Costco, he said he didn't see them anywhere.

 

Wish I had this advice before I bought my "Optima Red Top". Sits more than a week and I have to reset everything

 

Man, you are one smart guy! I think you were my chemistry professor in high school. I might have to change my hat size after digesting your post. I feel my brain getting bigger, as we speak.

Not to give you a hard time, but 2 points:

1) You said, "my reason for recommending ACDelco 75/78 - 6/7yr is GM puts them in C5's". But GM also was responsible for all the screw-ups posted in the Sticky: "Weights, measurements, etc.", including the original ACDelco leaky batteries, the poor placement of the battery over the PCM & electronics, the infamous steering wheel lock, etc.

2) And one question you didn't answer: Why are so many people running after the Exide Orbital?

David

 

Hi Mr. Leadfoot -

I went with the higher CA/CCA battery - the car does not REQUIRE the higher rating.

The one I went with bolted right in, and has 980 CA compared to 910, and it was not much more $.

My decision was just my choice, not based on facts or data - it was me chossing "bigger is better" (amperage wise...).

best regards -

mqqn

 

Hi Yechi7,

thanks and no problem, can you tell I like this stuff... plus having a sailboat means having to know alot about batteries...

In answer to your additional questions:

1. True GM did make those mistakes, as does other manufacturers make ones too. Could they do it better? Probably, but then there's always costs and trade-offs and the all-mighty 'stock market' concerns that seem to drive some American companies in non-consumer-focused directions.

That said, the improvement in quality within the Corvette line, year to year and model to model is noticable, but as always with advanced technology comes risks and with every design, there are compromises (e.g. provide a passenger side air-bag and a glove box by putting the computers outside under the battery).

The Cheverlot Corvette is the performance pioneering group in GM. I liken it to the computer field. Being on the 'bleeding edge', means having top-end performance (latest and greatest cpu/memory/drives/etc) with risks -- e.g. it might not run some game or an older version of MS Word, nor boot-up cleanly all the time, but we just accept that as the cost of being on the 'bleeding edge', why not some of GM's errors too.

Ok, now I'll get off my soap-box and answer your question:

because I believe that most folks try to do good, ditto with the GM person(s) who decided to use ACDelco 'maintenance free' batteries, perhaps because Leakages were not anticipated or did not happen before (remember side-post batteries are relatively new compared to good old top-post batteries). Case in point, 2004's returned to a top-post connection.

2. Actually I did, but it was buried in all the other information, but here it is again nonetheless:

Exide Orbital's attractiveness may be due to its NOT being a 'wet cell' (for those concerned about leakage) and the case seems beefier than the Optima. It may be a good choice, but since Optima's were failing, I was not convinced that the Exide Orbital's would not fail also.

Now onto some additional thoughts.

Batteries are consumables (just like tires and brakes), and nothing more than a small chemical reactor which has a finite quantity of activators with a finite life.

And they are a relative inexpensive and easy item to replace, and can and should be done as often as someone feels is needed.

Many folks (like me too until I pause to think) expect too much from a battery.

after all, there was a time when cars did not outlast their batteries as years ago it was surprising to have a battery last longer than 4 years.

Further, the car and its battery is designed to be driven frequently.

However, many of us (me included) make them into 'garage queens' (because we can afford to do so), which puts a strain on the design of the battery.

If by contrast the car is driven frequently, one should only place importance on reported complaints driven the same way (i.e. my favorite phrase "everything in life is relative").

I often wonder if GM would have liked to (except for legal advice to the contrary) have recommend replacing the battery every 2-3 years if not driven regularly.

 

Yes, I can tell you like this stuff! Thanks for all the clarification.

Now, I've got to decide between the ACDelco you bought, the Sears Diehard (Sears is close to where I live), & the Exide Orbital, (which is getting all these good reviews).

Thanks again.

David

 

Ask any good parts salesman/saleswoman that knows the difference between a spark plug hole and a hole in the ground who makes most of the batteries available. You will find the 90% of the batteries you can buy are made by exide. The only difference between the different models is the sticker on the side and their warranty policies.

I like the Red Top Orbital because the EXIDE rep did some great demonstrations. He dropped this on the ground from shoulder height with no damage or leaks. then, this true, he drilled a hole through one of the cylinders. Still no leaks. The battery tested good after all this abuse. Now that we know it is sealed really well, battery exhaust fumes, if present, are not even noticible. I've been using them in my Trans am since the Orbitals came out and put one in my C5 the day the original battery died.

John

 

I just wish we didn't have to worry about the electronics under the battery. A $40 Walmart battery lasted me 5 years in my infrequently-driven Mazda.

As far as beefy and therefore, least-likely to leak, the Exide Orbital seems to be # 1.

 

Hey, John, you wrote Red Top Orbital. Did you mean Optima Red Top or Exide Orbital?

 

I too use this same Red Top. Answer to your question? It has far more in the way of Cold Cranking Amp rating than the 35/75.
Tell your friend to get the 34/78 like you see in the picture. It's only a few dollars more.

 

I was just at Sams Club today and they carry both the Exide Orbital; as well as the Exide Nascar regular side terminal battery for under $50. Both have a full replacement 3 - year warranty. If you do not overtighten the cables, I see either as a good choice.

 

I think if I would have seen that demo, I would have bought stock in the company - and I've never bought any stock before in any company.

David

 

It really doesn't make a difference. The case for the exide orbital is a little beefer as stated in a post earlier in the thread by someone else... but none the less... they are both made by Exide.

There are so many arguments for and against this type of battery... honestly, after reading all the threads, find something that works and stay with it. As for me, I haven't had any trouble with either type of orbital so, when the ones that I have in my cars go out, I'll buy whichever orbital is cheaper and has the best warranty (Optima or Exide).

 

Actually to be fair to the Exide Orbital, the Optima is made by Johnson Controls (as I understand also makes Sears). See the info further below from link: http://www.optimabatteries.com/publi.../about_us.html

Even if they happen to be made at the same manufacturing facility, that does not mean they are the same (i.e. I could change a car's oil with either Mobil-1 or Walmart brand oil, but that doesn't make it the same, just because I did it or did them both in my garage).

However, I fully agree with your other statement:

Lastly, to retract something I said earlier about the Exide Orbital, I found information on their web-site which suggests it DOES use 'AGM' technology -- one more plus for the Exide Orbital.


Info from Johnson Control's website link above:
OPTIMA® Batteries, is a Colorado based company that is proud to be manufacturing a revolutionary product that is rapidly becoming the world wide standard for electrochemical power sources.

The OPTIMA battery was first developed by engineers at Denver's Gates Rubber Company in the early 1970's. Research and development continued during the 70's and 80's. In 1992, the OPTIMA research and manufacturing operation was acquired by the Gylling Group of Scandinavia. The Gylling Group built a new manufacturing plant and corporate headquarters near Denver International Airport.

On November 1, 2000, Johnson Controls, Inc. purchased OPTIMA Batteries, Inc. from the Gylling Group of Scandinavia.

Today, Colorado-made OPTIMA batteries are sold and shipped from Denver to dealers and distributors in 60 countries throughout the world, including Africa, Asia, Europe, Middle East and South America.

OPTIMA® BATTERIES AND OPTIMA SPIRALCELL® TECHNOLOGY are registered trademarks owned by Johnson Controls, Inc.