[Z06] C5R Vs. Darton...
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,992
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From: West Coast Muscle Cars CA
C5R Vs. Darton...
Just needed to know which is better everything else being equal.
427 C5R Vs. 427 Darton ( re- sleeved )
Pro's and Con's for each...I'm trying to make a decision.
427 C5R Vs. 427 Darton ( re- sleeved )
Pro's and Con's for each...I'm trying to make a decision.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,331
Likes: 2
From: Akron Ohio
C5R is the king, if you can afford it get it. If not I would not use the sleeves, have heard a lot of hassles on the forum by guys that went that route. WP block due out(or may be out now)is not quite as nice as the C5R, but costs much less.
Pro
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 745
Likes: 0
From: Orchard Park New York
Originally Posted by ICaughtVetteFever
C5R is the king, if you can afford it get it. If not I would not use the sleeves, have heard a lot of hassles on the forum by guys that went that route. WP block due out(or may be out now)is not quite as nice as the C5R, but costs much less.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,661
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by ICaughtVetteFever
C5R is the king, if you can afford it get it. If not I would not use the sleeves, have heard a lot of hassles on the forum by guys that went that route. WP block due out(or may be out now)is not quite as nice as the C5R, but costs much less.
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 26,794
Likes: 614
From: Elmhurst, IL (West Suburb of Chicago) & Home of MEGA Horsepower
St. Jude Donor '06
Originally Posted by ICaughtVetteFever
C5R is the king, if you can afford it get it. If not I would not use the sleeves, have heard a lot of hassles on the forum by guys that went that route. WP block due out(or may be out now)is not quite as nice as the C5R, but costs much less.
C5R is KING OF THE HILL and WARHAWK BLOCK won't even be on the markets for several more months. I owned a C5R motor i had built brand new from MTI and C5R vs a Darton Sleeve is a no brainer in favor of the C5R is you have the $ to pull it off.There is a reason why GM RACING USES the C5R Block and not a DARTON RESLEEVED ONE!!
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Drifting
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,824
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From: Middleboro Massachusetts
C5R block is $6000.00 alone. I saw some recent articles about GMPP offering a new 427 sleeved LS2 block for $2000.00. I hope that number is true, because this is my next big project. I don't want to use my current LS6 block, because I will be putting that motor in something new and lightweight. I've been eyeballing the Saturn Sky, to me it is better looking than the Pontiac Soltice. The Darton block will definitely work without fuss.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 43,084
Likes: 33
From: Raleigh / Rolesville NC
Originally Posted by zo6vetteman2003
C5R block is $6000.00 alone. I saw some recent articles about GMPP offering a new 427 sleeved LS2 block for $2000.00. I hope that number is true, because this is my next big project. I don't want to use my current LS6 block, because I will be putting that motor in something new and lightweight. I've been eyeballing the Saturn Sky, to me it is better looking than the Pontiac Soltice. The Darton block will definitely work without fuss.
But then again what do I know. I only have been reading and asking lots of questions for the past 6 mouths too.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,661
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by zo6vetteman2003
C5R block is $6000.00 alone. I saw some recent articles about GMPP offering a new 427 sleeved LS2 block for $2000.00. I hope that number is true, because this is my next big project. I don't want to use my current LS6 block, because I will be putting that motor in something new and lightweight. I've been eyeballing the Saturn Sky, to me it is better looking than the Pontiac Soltice. The Darton block will definitely work without fuss.
Also, there's at least a one year waiting list for the Sky, so good luck.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 43,084
Likes: 33
From: Raleigh / Rolesville NC
Originally Posted by xsiveone
The C5-R block is better though, isn't it?
I mentioned before with high quality parts and a C5R block I was close to $15,000 before labor, installation and testing. Not encluded were the trans and diff. rebuild for racing, clutch, CF drive shaft and hardend output shafts.
IMHO if I am going to build a bullet proof road racing engine or drag race engine you cant do it cheaply and expect it to last very long.
A show 427 engine, who cares you arnt driving it much any way.
Last edited by AU N EGL; Sep 3, 2006 at 03:37 PM.
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,824
Likes: 1
From: Middleboro Massachusetts
Originally Posted by xsiveone
I hate to break it to you, but the Sky is not lightweight. With the LSx engine, it weights just as much or more than the Corvette. You'd need to further lighten the car (and beef up the chassis) to make it worthwhile.
Also, there's at least a one year waiting list for the Sky, so good luck.
Also, there's at least a one year waiting list for the Sky, so good luck.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 20,474
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From: Detroit
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1486250
C5-R is better, as well it should be as it's more expensive.
C5-R is better, as well it should be as it's more expensive.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,661
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by zo6vetteman2003
Hot Rod Magazine Pontiac Solstice weighed in @ 2880lbs. I read what they did to it, so it wasn't posted without being educated about it.
My point is that it's not just a simple, relatively inexpensive engine swap. I bet that once you add up the cost of everything it would be much easier and probably less expensive to start with a Corvette and lighten it instead.
Unless your heart is set on a Solstice with an LS7 in it. I've seen people put $100K into a Civic, so if that's where you heart is...
Race Director
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 10,230
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From: Alexandria, Virginia, USA VA
it's heavy but gm is also working on the lsx. cast iron, rated for a whopping 2500 hp. should be an anvil and come in around 2k
the c5r block is awesome but pricey. real question is how much hp?? a ls2 sleeved MIGHT be enough, or a new LS7
if you are running lots of boost, I would not recommend the sleeved blocks.
the warhawk sure looks nice to me, but I don't know if you can get them yet. hopefully by now. I think they are in the 4k price range.
hope this helps.
the c5r block is awesome but pricey. real question is how much hp?? a ls2 sleeved MIGHT be enough, or a new LS7
if you are running lots of boost, I would not recommend the sleeved blocks.
the warhawk sure looks nice to me, but I don't know if you can get them yet. hopefully by now. I think they are in the 4k price range.
hope this helps.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 43,084
Likes: 33
From: Raleigh / Rolesville NC
Originally Posted by Rkreigh
it's heavy but gm is also working on the lsx. cast iron, rated for a whopping 2500 hp. should be an anvil and come in around 2k
the c5r block is awesome but pricey. real question is how much hp?? a ls2 sleeved MIGHT be enough, or a new LS7
if you are running lots of boost, I would not recommend the sleeved blocks.
the warhawk sure looks nice to me, but I don't know if you can get them yet. hopefully by now. I think they are in the 4k price range.
hope this helps.
the c5r block is awesome but pricey. real question is how much hp?? a ls2 sleeved MIGHT be enough, or a new LS7
if you are running lots of boost, I would not recommend the sleeved blocks.
the warhawk sure looks nice to me, but I don't know if you can get them yet. hopefully by now. I think they are in the 4k price range.
hope this helps.
A Darton Sleeved LS2 or the new Katech cast LS2 both 4.125 x 4.0 are far stronger then the GM LS7 block. Both the Darton and the Katech could be mid 600s to mid 700 depeding on configuration and the reliabilty you want.
I am looking at a Katech LS2 427 for road racing. With all high end parts for reliabilty still looking at close to $15G for full engine.
Dont forget that high HP/TQ engines need a drive train that can handle those numbers too.
Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,706
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From: Valrico Florida
If you are just looking for performance and you dont want to pay the high price tag of a C5R setup. I would go with a 415ci LQ9 setup. To lose the 80lb weight increase change to some lighter sport seats, lighter rotors and calipers, nice coilover setup and lighter wheels. The horsepower and tq difference would be very small, but you will have a fast combo that handles like a dream. Now for boost I would do the same and just go with a 408ci. Iron is tried and true. Why abandon something that works? You can do all of what I have suggested and still be cheaper than going with a C5R setup. When I took my car to Sebring with my iron block and minor suspension upgrades I could not tell I had an extra 80lbs on the nose. I had been there many times with the stock alum and I was surprised I could not tell. The only time I noticed any difference is when I had an instructor in my car. He was 245lbs. He even took my car for a spin and said it handled well for a car with a iron block. Unless you race professionally I dont think squabbling over the weight of a small child on the nose is important.