HP gain with BLACKWING
Race Director
Joined: May 2000
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Hi Guys -
... EHS is saying his car is making stock 01 ls6 power with an ls6 manifold, slightly larger throttle body, and an uncorked air-cleaner. That sounds reasonable at least to me.
There are so many cars here making over 600 rwhp, there really is not going to much glory in trying to misrepresent a car as having 330ish rwhp - why would EHS be lying?
best regards-
mqqn
... EHS is saying his car is making stock 01 ls6 power with an ls6 manifold, slightly larger throttle body, and an uncorked air-cleaner. That sounds reasonable at least to me.
There are so many cars here making over 600 rwhp, there really is not going to much glory in trying to misrepresent a car as having 330ish rwhp - why would EHS be lying?
best regards-
mqqn
-- thanks for being civil, when others are as courteous as you, I'll respond to them as well.
In the mean time, I didn't bother dynoing my car in stock form, becasue I assumed that it put out what most cars. For example, a quick web search turned up this (a 2000 automatic):
http://www.dynoperformance.com/dyno_...20&model=buggy
Max (RW/FW)HP: 302.1 @ 6280 rpms
Max (RW/FW)TQ: 278.2 @ 4840 rpms
Here' another:
1999 C5
+/- 300/305 hp at the rear wheels is pretty average for a stock C5 of that vintage.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 1999
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From: Life's tough, wear a helmet.
mggn
-- thanks for being civil, when others are as courteous as you, I'll respond to them as well.
In the mean time, I didn't bother dynoing my car in stock form, becasue I assumed that it put out what most cars. For example, a quick web search turned up this (a 2000 automatic):
-- thanks for being civil, when others are as courteous as you, I'll respond to them as well.
In the mean time, I didn't bother dynoing my car in stock form, becasue I assumed that it put out what most cars. For example, a quick web search turned up this (a 2000 automatic):
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 10,179
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From: Wesley Chapel, FL Las Vegas, NV
Whatever, bro. Your initial post implied that all you had was a Blackwing and it got you to 337 rwhp.
And when asked about other mods you said NONE.
In the mean time, I didn't bother dynoing my car in stock form, becasue I assumed that it put out what most cars. For example, a quick web search turned up this (
mggn
-- thanks for being civil, when others are as courteous as you, I'll respond to them as well.
-- thanks for being civil, when others are as courteous as you, I'll respond to them as well.
The time for
is over dude.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,786
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From: Cary NC
Not doing a baseline dyno on a car before doing mods means you don't know where you started. Assuming the numbers of other cars is just that, an assumption. The LS1/LS6 falls within a range. But that range does have some skew to it. Then you get the oddball ones that just throw the scale out the window. My 02 Z06 came in on the low side of the scale. Just that particular LS6 and the generic factory settings. After getting a dyno tune I ended up on the higher side with no mods.
So you could get anywhere from 3-15rwhp depending on your specific car and how it reacts to that specific mod and what the ambient temp/humidity is that day. But with no baseline dyno it is simply conjecture as to what the mod did. And when you stack several mods together and then dyno you won't know what each was good for. Just what the "package" created. I won't dyno again until I install LTs with high flow cats. Then I'll get a retune after a baseline pull.
Many of these aftermarket parts are hyped up by the vendors. They setup "special" conditions to make sure they get the best result or leave out some facts. You can't blame folks for being suspicious about it. Especially when you add in the Corvette Tax to the cost of the part...
So you could get anywhere from 3-15rwhp depending on your specific car and how it reacts to that specific mod and what the ambient temp/humidity is that day. But with no baseline dyno it is simply conjecture as to what the mod did. And when you stack several mods together and then dyno you won't know what each was good for. Just what the "package" created. I won't dyno again until I install LTs with high flow cats. Then I'll get a retune after a baseline pull.
Many of these aftermarket parts are hyped up by the vendors. They setup "special" conditions to make sure they get the best result or leave out some facts. You can't blame folks for being suspicious about it. Especially when you add in the Corvette Tax to the cost of the part...
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,343
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From: las vegas NV
See the post directly above yours.
This thread started out with a question on "HP gain with a Blackwing".
Fast Mover dynoed 332 hp with only a Blackwing and a cat-back.
I dynoed 333, 335, and 337.
That's 1 hp, 3 hp, and 5 hp, more than him, and well within tolerance for different dynos.
If all of his 27 hp was due to the Blackwing, I'll let you make the same assumption that so was mine.
I'm glad that both he and I were able to provide non-SOTP, dynoed results of what the Blackwing produces.
Thank you for your comments.
This thread started out with a question on "HP gain with a Blackwing".
Fast Mover dynoed 332 hp with only a Blackwing and a cat-back.
I dynoed 333, 335, and 337.
That's 1 hp, 3 hp, and 5 hp, more than him, and well within tolerance for different dynos.
If all of his 27 hp was due to the Blackwing, I'll let you make the same assumption that so was mine.
I'm glad that both he and I were able to provide non-SOTP, dynoed results of what the Blackwing produces.
Thank you for your comments.
Race Director
Joined: May 2000
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1. Blackwing = ___ hp
2. No MAF screen = ___ hp
3. 80mm BBK TB = ___ hp
4. LS6 manifold = ___ hp
5. Corsa catback = ___ hp
6. No custom "tune" = ___ hp
Then, I could subtract and come to a baseline, since I never bothered with a baseline dyno.
Thank you very much for your help.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 10,179
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From: Wesley Chapel, FL Las Vegas, NV
I agree -- and it would really be helpful to me, if you could tell me how much (if any) each of these mods added to my car's baseline hp and torque:
1. Blackwing = ___ hp
2. No MAF screen = ___ hp
3. 80mm BBK TB = ___ hp
4. LS6 manifold = ___ hp
5. Corsa catback = ___ hp
6. No custom "tune" = ___ hp
Then, I could subtract and come to a baseline, since I never bothered with a baseline dyno.
Thank you very much for your help.
1. Blackwing = ___ hp
2. No MAF screen = ___ hp
3. 80mm BBK TB = ___ hp
4. LS6 manifold = ___ hp
5. Corsa catback = ___ hp
6. No custom "tune" = ___ hp
Then, I could subtract and come to a baseline, since I never bothered with a baseline dyno.
Thank you very much for your help.
LS6 and Corsa 15-18
Everthing else 7-10
Now that I'm being "Civil" Why did you keep insisting you only had a Blackwing?
Race Director
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Race Director
Joined: Apr 2005
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From: Wesley Chapel, FL Las Vegas, NV
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vega$Vette
With no other mods like maybe a throttle body, L6 intake, Corsa Catback?? Oh did you forget to mention extensive Dyno Tuning?
Originally Posted by Vega$Vette
With no other mods like maybe a throttle body, L6 intake, Corsa Catback?? Oh did you forget to mention extensive Dyno Tuning?
You didn't, and there wasn't any involved.
Why didn't you just say originally "BTW I also have these other mods"?
No hard feeling here. I'm just trying to point out that peoples decisions are made based on information they glean from the Forum. If that info is not accurate or omits facts then it is a disservice to us all.
Race Director
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What did this mean? You answered as follows:
I'm not the only one here that believes you strongly implied that a Blackwing was the only mod you had.
Why didn't you just say originally "BTW I also have these other mods"?
No hard feeling here. I'm just trying to point out that peoples decisions are made based on information they glean from the Forum. If that info is not accurate or omits facts then it is a disservice to us all.
I'm not the only one here that believes you strongly implied that a Blackwing was the only mod you had.
Why didn't you just say originally "BTW I also have these other mods"?
No hard feeling here. I'm just trying to point out that peoples decisions are made based on information they glean from the Forum. If that info is not accurate or omits facts then it is a disservice to us all.
I can see now how it was unclear. Sorry.
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2002
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From: Iowa
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Gee, my '04 A4 WITH a Blackwing and Corsa on the dyno only came up with 292 rwhp and 311 rwtq. And it came stock with the LS6 intake.
Guess mine's a real factory dog, ehh? Funny thing though, when I speak to Corvette owners outside of this forum, my numbers seem to be right in line with the majority as to what they should be.
Why do you (rhetorically) feel that is?
Le Mans Master
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St. Jude Donor '03-'04-'05-'06-'07-'11
Hi MagikDraggin -
I suppose it is not beyond the real of believability that the factory computer tune could factor into rwhp. We are talking about 15% variability here, the number I generally have heard accepted as the power-train parasitic loss (drive-line friction).
So - bear with me - if you can get 15 or 20 rwhp with a professional dyno tune, and considering that C5's are operated in varying climates, couldn't a car that by chance had a very spot factory tune achieve a 15% higher rwhp number?
So it is (at least to me) entirely possible that a car with a blackwing, a catback and a larger tb could show 30rwhp more than a bone stock c5 that was not as well tuned from the factory.
Hopefully someone who knows more about the heuristic tuning that the stock software can do could comment on how much variability there is in the factory tune.
Vegas and EHS - you both are trying to help out the forum - good job understanding and accepting (eventually
) each others point of view.
best regards -
mqqn
I suppose it is not beyond the real of believability that the factory computer tune could factor into rwhp. We are talking about 15% variability here, the number I generally have heard accepted as the power-train parasitic loss (drive-line friction).
So - bear with me - if you can get 15 or 20 rwhp with a professional dyno tune, and considering that C5's are operated in varying climates, couldn't a car that by chance had a very spot factory tune achieve a 15% higher rwhp number?
So it is (at least to me) entirely possible that a car with a blackwing, a catback and a larger tb could show 30rwhp more than a bone stock c5 that was not as well tuned from the factory.
Hopefully someone who knows more about the heuristic tuning that the stock software can do could comment on how much variability there is in the factory tune.
Vegas and EHS - you both are trying to help out the forum - good job understanding and accepting (eventually
) each others point of view. best regards -
mqqn
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St. Jude Donor '05-'06-'07-'10
My '97 mn6 with stock tune (345 hp from the fatory) netted a 308.84 hp and 317.21 tq with a blackwing and Corsa touring catback. The Dyno was done on a mobil dyno by a forum member at the National Corvette Museum No tune and stock internals. Take from that what you will but for those that are claiming zero are just plain wrong. While an intake will not make the gains that most of the sites claim they will net something. The stock airbox on a C5 is pathetic. The car needs to breath free and the intake and to a lesser extent the exhaust changes will help it make more power. With what has come to be expected for baseline information on the early C5's It would seem that my intake and catback netted total somewhere between 8 and 13 or so hp at the wheels. YMMV.
Paul
Paul
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2000
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From: Northwest Iowa
Gee, my '04 A4 WITH a Blackwing and Corsa on the dyno only came up with 292 rwhp and 311 rwtq. And it came stock with the LS6 intake.
Guess mine's a real factory dog, ehh? Funny thing though, when I speak to Corvette owners outside of this forum, my numbers seem to be right in line with the majority as to what they should be.
Why do you (rhetorically) feel that is?
Guess mine's a real factory dog, ehh? Funny thing though, when I speak to Corvette owners outside of this forum, my numbers seem to be right in line with the majority as to what they should be.
Why do you (rhetorically) feel that is?
Engine = 345 hp - 18% = 283hp , so your's is not bad at all for stock.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2000
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From: Northwest Iowa
It would take me quit a while to find the old dyno sheets and there could and will be difference in dyno's due to weather conditions and dyno's themselves, but my '99 MN6 got 301 with a Blackwing, and descreen MAF. And that is everything else stock (This was done at a car show in summer of 2004). Never did get a baseline without it, but don't think it would have been much less. Most MN6's that I have seen hear are right around 295-300.
Later after adding Long tube headers (RK Sports), Corsa Catbacks (Indy Pace car) and a LS6 intake, it got 331 HP. That was tested by Doug Rippie right before he did a tune, and after the tune it came out at 345 rwhp. (sping 2005)
With that in mind. I would say that the Blackwing didn't help more than 2-3 hp with the screen out, and the exhaust change was probably the better hp gain. Letting the car breath the spent gasses out better has to be a big improvement.
Then the tune was next best improvement for the $$$$, probably even better than the exhaust. It's just that you have to do those first to see the big improvemnt in the tune.
Later after adding Long tube headers (RK Sports), Corsa Catbacks (Indy Pace car) and a LS6 intake, it got 331 HP. That was tested by Doug Rippie right before he did a tune, and after the tune it came out at 345 rwhp. (sping 2005)
With that in mind. I would say that the Blackwing didn't help more than 2-3 hp with the screen out, and the exhaust change was probably the better hp gain. Letting the car breath the spent gasses out better has to be a big improvement.
Then the tune was next best improvement for the $$$$, probably even better than the exhaust. It's just that you have to do those first to see the big improvemnt in the tune.
Last edited by HawkIVette; Dec 15, 2006 at 08:30 PM.
Race Director
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From: Wesley Chapel, FL Las Vegas, NV
My '04 A4 Dynoed 308 RWHP with Corsa Catback only. That was before mods. Most stock C5's (350 hp M6 and A4) come in at 300-310 RWHP
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 2,975
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From: Northwest Iowa
Invite me out there and put me up for a week so I can test mine.
Last edited by HawkIVette; Dec 15, 2006 at 09:15 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2000
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From: Northwest Iowa
And now wait a minute.
But you said 308 was with Corsa Catback installed, right? But the next sentence says
Well, which is it - before mods 308 or after the catback install. Since when is a catback not a mod? Don't you think that helped the 308 more than just 7? Probably more like 10-12 Hp for the catback?
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 10,179
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From: Wesley Chapel, FL Las Vegas, NV
And now wait a minute.
But you said 308 was with Corsa Catback installed, right? But the next sentence says
Well, which is it - before mods 308 or after the catback install. Since when is a catback not a mod? Don't you think that helped the 308 more than just 7? Probably more like 10-12 Hp for the catback?
But you said 308 was with Corsa Catback installed, right? But the next sentence says
Well, which is it - before mods 308 or after the catback install. Since when is a catback not a mod? Don't you think that helped the 308 more than just 7? Probably more like 10-12 Hp for the catback?