Cam Question
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,600
Likes: 0
From: Spring Hill, Florida Life is all about new beginnings;...TRY ONE!
St. Jude Donor '07-'08
Overlap is the key attribute to what defines a cam's manners.
Big overlap = badass idle, loud, more shake, top end (high rpm) powerband.
Low or neg overlap = sedate idle, good manners, lower rpm powerband.
Like the thread starter here, it seems most everyone wants the wicked idle, with little or no other sacrifices. Both can't happen. Some sacrifices must be made, either for practicality, or willingness to put up with a little loss of normal drivability. Good street manners, and low rpm usability will inherently suffer the more radical the cam sounds.
Everyone has their own idea of the best compromise. I think (in this case), your old cam would be almost ideal for what most people really want...noticible lope, a little shake, and yet pretty good overall street manners. 8* overlap isn't that much...but obviously, you wanted it even more tame than that (not faulting you, everyone has their own preference).
My little G5X4 has +20* overlap, and I love the shake and non-subtlety of it. That's what I wanted.
For black98c5:
My honest recommendation would be to keep and install your F13...I think you'll love it. For most people, I think the X4 would be too much for the street and daily driving. I have a high tolerance for bad manners, I knew what I was in for when I chose this cam.
Don't read that as disappointed or overwhelmed, I'm certainly not, I'm just keeping in mind what I think many of you are really asking for. Although the video shows the car can be driven sedately and in traffic, it really has changed the dynamics of the car, I did have to learn how to drive it all over again, and basically, it is loud, rude, and obnoxious. I love how the car sounds now too, but to be honest, I'm not too sure the local PD will agree with me. I'm seriously considering switching to a quieter exhaust before I get written up.
From a practicality standpoint, this particular cam (X4) will pull to well over 7000 rpm. On a stock engine, with limiting factors such as connecting rod bolts and rocker arms,etc...you'd be unwise to even find out where this cam peaks. I'll probably (against the advice of half the world) set my rev limit at 7k. If I blow the **** up, then 402 shortblock here I come.
I'll have no one to blame but myself, but again...that's not something I'd advise or recommend to anyone.
My feelings is a good ballpark for a street "all purpose" cam would be in the 224-232 duration range....230-240 for an aggressive but still tolerable street cam, and (like mine) 240+ for the lunatic fringe.
That's assuming a stock size engine. Bigger cube motors can handle a lot more duration.
I researched everything I could read about cams for 2 years before I finally made up my mind. I'd advise everyone to do the same research before choosing a cam. Read and learn as much as you can, and don't buy "just because it sounds cool" in a video. By all means, get a cam, but be realistic in how wild or mild you really want it.
Big overlap = badass idle, loud, more shake, top end (high rpm) powerband.
Low or neg overlap = sedate idle, good manners, lower rpm powerband.
Like the thread starter here, it seems most everyone wants the wicked idle, with little or no other sacrifices. Both can't happen. Some sacrifices must be made, either for practicality, or willingness to put up with a little loss of normal drivability. Good street manners, and low rpm usability will inherently suffer the more radical the cam sounds.
Everyone has their own idea of the best compromise. I think (in this case), your old cam would be almost ideal for what most people really want...noticible lope, a little shake, and yet pretty good overall street manners. 8* overlap isn't that much...but obviously, you wanted it even more tame than that (not faulting you, everyone has their own preference).
My little G5X4 has +20* overlap, and I love the shake and non-subtlety of it. That's what I wanted.
For black98c5:
My honest recommendation would be to keep and install your F13...I think you'll love it. For most people, I think the X4 would be too much for the street and daily driving. I have a high tolerance for bad manners, I knew what I was in for when I chose this cam.
Don't read that as disappointed or overwhelmed, I'm certainly not, I'm just keeping in mind what I think many of you are really asking for. Although the video shows the car can be driven sedately and in traffic, it really has changed the dynamics of the car, I did have to learn how to drive it all over again, and basically, it is loud, rude, and obnoxious. I love how the car sounds now too, but to be honest, I'm not too sure the local PD will agree with me. I'm seriously considering switching to a quieter exhaust before I get written up.
From a practicality standpoint, this particular cam (X4) will pull to well over 7000 rpm. On a stock engine, with limiting factors such as connecting rod bolts and rocker arms,etc...you'd be unwise to even find out where this cam peaks. I'll probably (against the advice of half the world) set my rev limit at 7k. If I blow the **** up, then 402 shortblock here I come.
I'll have no one to blame but myself, but again...that's not something I'd advise or recommend to anyone.My feelings is a good ballpark for a street "all purpose" cam would be in the 224-232 duration range....230-240 for an aggressive but still tolerable street cam, and (like mine) 240+ for the lunatic fringe.
That's assuming a stock size engine. Bigger cube motors can handle a lot more duration.
I researched everything I could read about cams for 2 years before I finally made up my mind. I'd advise everyone to do the same research before choosing a cam. Read and learn as much as you can, and don't buy "just because it sounds cool" in a video. By all means, get a cam, but be realistic in how wild or mild you really want it.
Supporting Tuner
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 51,896
Likes: 39
From: ================== Houston, Texas www.englandgreen.com ================== Necessary Evil™ __________
CI 6-7-8-9-10 Veteran
St. Jude Donor '05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14
Lots of people want performance mods for many different reasons.
Some for show, some for sound, some for bling, some for bragging rights, some for dyno sheets, some for road race, some for autocross, some for street action (non-racing), some for fun and some for drag racing.
And some "just because"
The trick is to be completely frank and honest with yourself BEFORE YOU START modifying your car.
What do you want? What are deal breakers? How do you intend to use your modified car? What are your goals? What is your budget?
High Performance cars are not a poor man's sport. Be prepared to spend more than you estimate, as it will ALWAYS cost more than you think.
For example - your car was designed by General Motors to run all day long at ~300rwhp. You want to increase that power to ~400+ rwhp. GM never designed this system to withstand this increase. And a car is a system - not a series of parts.
Increase engine power with no other changes - and expect increased heat, reduced reliability, possible breakage, decreased brakes and handling etc. etc. etc.
That is just reality. Many increase the output of their engines and are surprised when something seemingly unrelated fails or does not keep up. Change engine output = change support systems to handle that change.
Remember, your car is a complete system.
Here are some wise words to live by from, Doug of East Coast Supercharging.
Some for show, some for sound, some for bling, some for bragging rights, some for dyno sheets, some for road race, some for autocross, some for street action (non-racing), some for fun and some for drag racing.
And some "just because"
The trick is to be completely frank and honest with yourself BEFORE YOU START modifying your car.
What do you want? What are deal breakers? How do you intend to use your modified car? What are your goals? What is your budget?
High Performance cars are not a poor man's sport. Be prepared to spend more than you estimate, as it will ALWAYS cost more than you think.
For example - your car was designed by General Motors to run all day long at ~300rwhp. You want to increase that power to ~400+ rwhp. GM never designed this system to withstand this increase. And a car is a system - not a series of parts.
Increase engine power with no other changes - and expect increased heat, reduced reliability, possible breakage, decreased brakes and handling etc. etc. etc.
That is just reality. Many increase the output of their engines and are surprised when something seemingly unrelated fails or does not keep up. Change engine output = change support systems to handle that change.
Remember, your car is a complete system.
Here are some wise words to live by from, Doug of East Coast Supercharging.
Originally Posted by DOUG @ ECS
….. not that they cannot be completely reliable etc etc, but if you think you are going to build a nine sec car and race it continuously, then plan on feeding money into it for little things regularly.
Otherwise you are kidding yourself or being lied to. Personally I think it's well worth it, but that my opinion. Keep in mind though, there have been plenty of cruises etc that I wanted to attend, but couldn't because I blew my trans the past weekend and didn’t have the time to fix it. All these things need to be taken into account and you better have deep pockets, or don’t start. Here is a little break down for you guys (all my opinion of course)
13's=doesn't count
12's= the car is practically stock and will run that way
11's= very reliable, issues are rare and easily fixed
High 10's= still very reliable, maybe some clutch/ trans issues annually
Low 10's= more drive train related issues, engine freshening every 2-3years
High 9's= regular maintenance of the vehicle, engines more frequent, drive trains regularly. (for a regular racer-75/100+ passes per year)
Low 9's= maintenance after almost every race, expect engine freshening every year along with drive train. Plus many extras along the way that you never thought of.
8's= might get easier because by now your car is basically a race car and most likely has a race trans and solid axle etc etc that will hold up better to the abuse. These cars (C5s) were not designed for drag racing, simple as that.
This is what we tell all of our customers that want crazy HP because we would rather not have the job than to sell a job that the owner does not have the patience or money to maintain. Hope this helps
Otherwise you are kidding yourself or being lied to. Personally I think it's well worth it, but that my opinion. Keep in mind though, there have been plenty of cruises etc that I wanted to attend, but couldn't because I blew my trans the past weekend and didn’t have the time to fix it. All these things need to be taken into account and you better have deep pockets, or don’t start. Here is a little break down for you guys (all my opinion of course)
13's=doesn't count
12's= the car is practically stock and will run that way
11's= very reliable, issues are rare and easily fixed
High 10's= still very reliable, maybe some clutch/ trans issues annually
Low 10's= more drive train related issues, engine freshening every 2-3years
High 9's= regular maintenance of the vehicle, engines more frequent, drive trains regularly. (for a regular racer-75/100+ passes per year)
Low 9's= maintenance after almost every race, expect engine freshening every year along with drive train. Plus many extras along the way that you never thought of.
8's= might get easier because by now your car is basically a race car and most likely has a race trans and solid axle etc etc that will hold up better to the abuse. These cars (C5s) were not designed for drag racing, simple as that.
This is what we tell all of our customers that want crazy HP because we would rather not have the job than to sell a job that the owner does not have the patience or money to maintain. Hope this helps
Last edited by EG@EnglandGreen; Dec 14, 2006 at 05:46 PM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 886
Likes: 1
From: Mineral Wells WV
This is the cam I was told I have in mine. I have no clue what it is all I know is it feels very aggressive. What do you guys think? It's TSP Texas Giant Camshaft 248/254 622/614 116 LSA....I may have wrote it down wrong.
Supporting Tuner
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 51,896
Likes: 39
From: ================== Houston, Texas www.englandgreen.com ================== Necessary Evil™ __________
CI 6-7-8-9-10 Veteran
St. Jude Donor '05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,625
Likes: 1
From: Rhode Island
This is just the tip of the iceberg, many more questions would have to be answered to pick the proper cam (lift, lsa, and duration), springs, pushrods, retainers, etc. But if you just want a loping idle, sure install the 240, so what if you can't do anything below 5000 RPM? It will sound good though.
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