AFR 205s
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 7,795
Likes: 2
From: Noblesville Indiana
CI 7-8 Veteran
St. Jude Donor '03-'04-'05
AFR 205s
Hey all, just curious what the gains are with these heads? I'm planning my spring mods - considering a cam package, or possibly a H/C, if the gains can justify the extra costs over just a cam package. Basically what I'm asking is what rwhp/tq the heads would add.
FWIW, I have a 2000 MN6 coupe with Blackwing, Corsa, and Dynatech headers. TIA
FWIW, I have a 2000 MN6 coupe with Blackwing, Corsa, and Dynatech headers. TIA
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 43,084
Likes: 33
From: Raleigh / Rolesville NC
How many miles are on your engine??
Not sure what kind of gains you can get on a 2000 LS1.
But on a new LS6 motor. LS6 intake and 90mm tb, Long tubes, better CAI with a good cam, low 400s is possible
However, putting all that togther may run you $6,000 and a new LS6 more or LS2 motor is also about $6,000
Not sure what kind of gains you can get on a 2000 LS1.
But on a new LS6 motor. LS6 intake and 90mm tb, Long tubes, better CAI with a good cam, low 400s is possible
However, putting all that togther may run you $6,000 and a new LS6 more or LS2 motor is also about $6,000
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 47,647
Likes: 1
From: Queens, New York Life begins at 183 mph....
St. Jude Donor '08-'09
I got 407 rwhp using a 224/230 cam. My friend who has essentially the same package but has an MN6 got 420+ rwhp. Using a G5x3 cam, you could be looking at 450+ rwhp on an MN6.
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 7,795
Likes: 2
From: Noblesville Indiana
CI 7-8 Veteran
St. Jude Donor '03-'04-'05
Thanks for the help guys but that's not what I'm looking for. Say for example that I have my previous listed mods plus a cam which gives me 360/370 - now, if I add the 205s, what will my #s go up to? I'm just trying to find out what the heads themselves will add. BTW, I have 19K miles on the engine.
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,720
Likes: 3
From: East Hampton CT
It's all about having a balanced intake setup. Assuming the heads are setup correctly for the intake and cam, I think the general consensus is 20-50 rwhp from heads. Torque is also a big factor that many forget. My PRC ported 243's got me 412/394 SAE RW with comp grind 228/232...which was lower than expected for hp but VERY healthy with torque. I would guess that combo would have been around 380-390hp and 370-380 tq without...just from what I have seen.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,066
Likes: 0
St. Jude Donor '06
I did a baby cam (TSP 228r) and AFR 205's. I gained about 90rwhp total. How much the heads added, I don't really know. The cam should have added about 50 hp so probably 30 to 40 hp increase from the heads. Mine are milled to 62cc.
I would say the increase is worth the money, however I've seen similar increases with less expensive heads.
Good Luck with your choice
I would say the increase is worth the money, however I've seen similar increases with less expensive heads.
Good Luck with your choice
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 13,542
Likes: 1
From: Are you fat because you're lazy or lazy because you're fat? San Jose, CA
Cruise-In X Veteran
St. Jude Donor '09
H/c
Don't get caught up in peak #'s. Look at area under the curve, aka avg. power. This is especially important for a street car.
Plenty of people throw a big cam in a stock headed LS1 and get a nice peak #, but you have to rev it to 4K+ everytime.
Do your HW, go over the ls1tech.com.
Do a properly matched heads and cam setup and you'll get great gains accross the powerband, not just at 5K RPMs.
Plenty of people throw a big cam in a stock headed LS1 and get a nice peak #, but you have to rev it to 4K+ everytime.
Do your HW, go over the ls1tech.com.
Do a properly matched heads and cam setup and you'll get great gains accross the powerband, not just at 5K RPMs.
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Race Director
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 19,459
Likes: 48
From: Schaumburg IL
CI 7-8-9-11 Veteran
St. Jude Donor '06-'10, '13
Thanks for the help guys but that's not what I'm looking for. Say for example that I have my previous listed mods plus a cam which gives me 360/370 - now, if I add the 205s, what will my #s go up to? I'm just trying to find out what the heads themselves will add. BTW, I have 19K miles on the engine.
I can tell you that my numbers with my AFR 205's and my cam being close to a few others who have posted in this thread (228/232 on 113LSA and .588 .590) I made 410RWHP and 403TRQ. My car is an 01 MN6 so it came with the LS6 intake which probably helped.,,I also have Longtube headers(Dynatech like you).
I figure my heads gave me about 30-40RWHP the other 70RWHP came from my cam, tune and headers/intake... that's just my best guess.
Good luck
Last edited by FrankTank; Jan 4, 2007 at 05:49 PM.
Pro
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 559
Likes: 1
From: Lenexa Kansas
I have been doing a lot of reserarch lately, and I keep coming to the conclusion that AFR's are definitely a cut above the LS6 budget heads that run 1/2 the price. And it's not just peak #'s... The AFR's are supposed to have smaller intake runners that increase the velocity of airflow, which helps low-end torque.
Anyway, just research the hell out of it, and you'll probably come to the same conclusion I did. Then it's only a matter of whether your goals and budget lead you in that direction. Although I'd love to get AFR's, I don't personally see a need for monster horsepower, so I'll be going cam only, or possibly used LS6 heads with new springs to get 390ish to low 400's.
Anyway, just research the hell out of it, and you'll probably come to the same conclusion I did. Then it's only a matter of whether your goals and budget lead you in that direction. Although I'd love to get AFR's, I don't personally see a need for monster horsepower, so I'll be going cam only, or possibly used LS6 heads with new springs to get 390ish to low 400's.
Racer
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 310
Likes: 1
From: St.Louis Missouri
Don't get caught up in peak #'s. Look at area under the curve, aka avg. power. This is especially important for a street car.
Plenty of people throw a big cam in a stock headed LS1 and get a nice peak #, but you have to rev it to 4K+ everytime.
Do your HW, go over the ls1tech.com.
Do a properly matched heads and cam setup and you'll get great gains accross the powerband, not just at 5K RPMs.
Plenty of people throw a big cam in a stock headed LS1 and get a nice peak #, but you have to rev it to 4K+ everytime.
Do your HW, go over the ls1tech.com.
Do a properly matched heads and cam setup and you'll get great gains accross the powerband, not just at 5K RPMs.
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Team Owner
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 22,025
Likes: 192
From: At the beach in little Rhody
Check out Vinci High Performance's web site, they did a head only swap on a C5 and picked up 35 hp. I would think you would be in the same range.
I did a cam first, then heads. With my cam only and 1.8 Crane rockers, I was at 370 hp. I then installed Dart 205 heads and swapped my 1.8 Crane rockers for Crane 1.7 rockers. I picked up about 24 hp even though my valve events had been reduced. The AFR would have likely given me another 10 hp up top as they flow better than the Darts. But the AFR's will also give you a big boost in the lower RPM's where you will spend most of the time anyhow due to the smaller runner size. Shave them down and boost your compression to about 11:1 and the lower RPM's will improve further
Contact Tony Mamo, get his input on this. He has put together all kinds of combinations for guys with excellent results and he is willing to spend the time so you get the type of performance you want from the car
I did a cam first, then heads. With my cam only and 1.8 Crane rockers, I was at 370 hp. I then installed Dart 205 heads and swapped my 1.8 Crane rockers for Crane 1.7 rockers. I picked up about 24 hp even though my valve events had been reduced. The AFR would have likely given me another 10 hp up top as they flow better than the Darts. But the AFR's will also give you a big boost in the lower RPM's where you will spend most of the time anyhow due to the smaller runner size. Shave them down and boost your compression to about 11:1 and the lower RPM's will improve further
Contact Tony Mamo, get his input on this. He has put together all kinds of combinations for guys with excellent results and he is willing to spend the time so you get the type of performance you want from the car
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,121
Likes: 3
From: Shreveport/Bossier Louisiana
St. Jude Donor '08
I seem to be in the same boat. I am starting to look for heads to compliment my g5x3 cam and i know that the AFR's are "better all around" heads but im not sure if i can justify spending twice as much for them. I am at 401 rwhp now on my cam alone. I also run nitrous but very rarely. Ill be listening to everyones opinions and thoughts !!
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,475
Likes: 332
From: Port Arthur, Texas 77642
Before AFR 205's and cam I had 99 LS1 MN6 with K&N & opened up factory airbox, Kooks LT's with off road x-pipe, B&B touring catback. This combination netted me 344rwhp/352rwtq. I then added comp blower cam(220-228,567-571,114+4) and AFR 205's and retuned. This resulted in 397rwhp/387rwtq. I certainly feel I would have had much better gains with NA cam like G5X3 or similar. FWIW, after adding A&A Vortech at 8-9 psi 606rwhp/506rwtq were the results 
. Hope this info helps.
Scotty
. Hope this info helps. Scotty
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 999
Likes: 9
From: Floyds Knobs Indiana
this is what my car, a 2000 mn6, did on a mustang dyno.
(212/218 .558/.563 115lsa), hardened push rods, double valve springs, kooks 1 7/8ths long tubes, kooks 3' offroad x pipe, dte ported ls6 throttle body, ls6 intake, vararam
i love the way it feels and it pulls really really hard. once the local guy gets his dynojet up and running we are going to put it on there to see how it compares and what it puts down.
(212/218 .558/.563 115lsa), hardened push rods, double valve springs, kooks 1 7/8ths long tubes, kooks 3' offroad x pipe, dte ported ls6 throttle body, ls6 intake, vararam
i love the way it feels and it pulls really really hard. once the local guy gets his dynojet up and running we are going to put it on there to see how it compares and what it puts down.
