C5 Performance: Headlights up Vs. down
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 11,467
Likes: 8
From: 972 and 405
C5 Performance: Headlights up Vs. down
There's a pretty big discussion on the C7 section as to whether the C7 should or should not have retractable headlamps. The main issues people have issues with is that they just don't like the look and aerodynamics. Aesthetics are subjective, and personally I don't see the C7(assuming it even makes an appearance) going back in time to have pop ups. I think exposed lights make it look like a regular car unless Chevrolet steps them up to a high tech looking arrangement such as something Audi has. Anyway, with the performance aspect, has anyone ever noticed a decreased acceleration with having the headlamps up? I've never noticed it. Maybe some of you guys that run to the track?
-Alex
-Alex
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,866
Likes: 45
From: Tampa Bay, Go BUCS!!!Go Rays!!!Go Lightning!!!
St. Jude Donor '12-'13-'14
I'd throw the 
flags if anyone posts up a noticeable or measurable change in performance at any speed attainable by a stock vette, including the ZR-1.
I'm pretty sure the only reason the C5R has non-popups is that they didn't have to worry about whether they would work 18 hours into a Lemans race. It is possible that they were a little less weight as well but without all the other weight saving items that would be negligible.
That being said, the only other issue is looks. That will be an argueable issue with a lot of things.
flags if anyone posts up a noticeable or measurable change in performance at any speed attainable by a stock vette, including the ZR-1.I'm pretty sure the only reason the C5R has non-popups is that they didn't have to worry about whether they would work 18 hours into a Lemans race. It is possible that they were a little less weight as well but without all the other weight saving items that would be negligible.
That being said, the only other issue is looks. That will be an argueable issue with a lot of things.
Banned Scam/Spammer
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 50,093
Likes: 267
From: Oklahoma City
St. Jude Donor '09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16-'17,'19,'22
I only noticed a slight drop in MPG while traveling.
On the start I had my headlights down and when coming back I had them up (darkness).
One of the magazines I subscribe to did a test on aerodynamics a few months ago. The pop ups did affect the aerodynamics.
On the start I had my headlights down and when coming back I had them up (darkness).
One of the magazines I subscribe to did a test on aerodynamics a few months ago. The pop ups did affect the aerodynamics.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 43,084
Likes: 33
From: Raleigh / Rolesville NC
Having the headlights up does increase front-end lift, but reduces rear-end lift. The best (free) aero improvements would be increasing rake and blocking off the front fog light screens which normally let air into the front fascia.
Last edited by AU N EGL; Jun 2, 2009 at 02:01 PM.
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,760
Likes: 4
From: Broward County Florida
And to address the comment of "going back in time", it would seem putting fixed headlights would be going back in time, not keeping flip ups...
Lets take a stroll back to 1953:
Banned Scam/Spammer
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 50,093
Likes: 267
From: Oklahoma City
St. Jude Donor '09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16-'17,'19,'22
I agree that having the lights up would affect aerodynamics, but MPG? C'mon man. If you have the lights on, shouldn't it be cooler? Yes only marginally, but then again so would having the lights up!
And to address the comment of "going back in time", it would seem putting fixed headlights would be going back in time, not keeping flip ups...
Lets take a stroll back to 1953:
And to address the comment of "going back in time", it would seem putting fixed headlights would be going back in time, not keeping flip ups...
Lets take a stroll back to 1953:
I wasn't talking about electronics man. I guess you don't believe aerodynamics effects gas mileage? Why would I lie about this! I have better things to do. I'm going by what the DIC said over my 557 mile trip.
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 11,467
Likes: 8
From: 972 and 405
2004 to 2003 flip ups
2003 to 2002 flip ups
etc
How many new cars do you see with flip up headlights? As much as I love the design, pop ups are old and outdated technology.
-Alex
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 43,084
Likes: 33
From: Raleigh / Rolesville NC
number of years ago I drove up to Baltimore on I85 to I95, averaged 80 mph( Raleigh to Richmond VA was over 90 and I was being passed by many cars) and 32 mpg
on they way back it was dark the whole drive, averaged 70 mph and 30 mpg
so yes a bit
on they way back it was dark the whole drive, averaged 70 mph and 30 mpg
so yes a bit
Corvette Stories
The Best of Corvette for Corvette Enthusiasts
10 Reasons the C6 Z06 is Still A Performance Benchmark After 20 Years
Joe Kucinski
How Much Horsepower Every Corvette Engine "LOST" in 1972
Joe Kucinski
Top 10 DOs and DON'Ts for Protecting Your Convertible Top!
Michael S. Palmer
Top 10 Most Explosive Corvettes Ever Made: Power-to-Weight Ratio Ranked!
Joe Kucinski
150 hp to 1,250 hp: Every Corvette Generation Compared by the Specs That Matter
Joe Kucinski
8 Coolest Corvette Pace Cars (and Replicas) of All Time
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Corvette Engines RANKED by Peak Torque (70+ Years of Muscle!)
Joe Kucinski
Corvette ZR1X Will Be Pacing the Indy 500, And Could Probably Race, Too!
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Corvettes Coming to Mecum Indy 2026!
Brett Foote
Banned Scam/Spammer
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 50,093
Likes: 267
From: Oklahoma City
St. Jude Donor '09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16-'17,'19,'22
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 11,467
Likes: 8
From: 972 and 405
-Alex
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,438
Likes: 30
From: Fairfax Virginia
Hidden lamps are primarily about styling. The C2 styling took the public by storm with its revolving hidden lamps and totally gorgeous styling. The C3, C4, and C5 all used different approaches to accomplish the hidden lamps. All of them not only had the clean styling of the hidden lamps, but also had a properly integrated place for the front license plate rather than a tacked on appendage.
Although I have a C6 in addition to the C5, it is my view that the front of the C6 is much less distinctive than the C5 or C4, C3 or C2. Take your pick.
Technology can allow you to accomplish thing elegantly that you could not accomplish before. Dropping the hidden lamps is not about advancing technology, IMO opinion it is the easy way out to accomplish other goals. A little weight, a little aero maybe a little body fit simplicity, maybe some cost saving are possible goals. I'm willing to give those things up for the hidden lamps.
Although I have a C6 in addition to the C5, it is my view that the front of the C6 is much less distinctive than the C5 or C4, C3 or C2. Take your pick.
Technology can allow you to accomplish thing elegantly that you could not accomplish before. Dropping the hidden lamps is not about advancing technology, IMO opinion it is the easy way out to accomplish other goals. A little weight, a little aero maybe a little body fit simplicity, maybe some cost saving are possible goals. I'm willing to give those things up for the hidden lamps.
Pro
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 549
Likes: 44
From: Houston TX
I can confirm an average of 2 mpg loss in fuel economy with the headlights up. 1 mpg loss at slower freeway speeds (~60-65 mph). It's something I have noticed and [somewhat] kept track of after buying my C5Z.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 58,500
Likes: 1,825
From: Oklahoma City OK
C6 of Year Finalist (appearance mods) 2019
Of course it would effect drag but who cares? It doesn't amount to a hill of beans! When you make a mountain out of a mole hill, don't expect me to climb up and admire the view!
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 992
Likes: 3
From: Chesterfield Michigan
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14
My vote is 100% for pop-ups. The front of the C5 is one of the most beautiful and timeless fascias ever created.