Looking for more cornering stability.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 51,504
Likes: 6
From: Sacramento CA
Looking for more cornering stability.
Z06 sways and shocks.
base spring.
I feel like maybe it's the spring causing me headaches.
When the car is in transitions, or toward the edge of its handling it will get, for a lack of better words, wobbly.
Is this just a function of having too much shock for my springs?
How much will springs hurt my ride quality?
base spring.
I feel like maybe it's the spring causing me headaches.
When the car is in transitions, or toward the edge of its handling it will get, for a lack of better words, wobbly.
Is this just a function of having too much shock for my springs?
How much will springs hurt my ride quality?
Supporting Vendor
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 8,550
Likes: 903
From: Republic of Texas
C5 or C6 shocks? If i remember correctly, the C6Z weighed less than the C5 and thus the shock doesn't have to be as stiff. I have the C6Z shocks on my 97 with C5Z sways anc factory shocks and it corners really well.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,602
Likes: 970
From: Palm Harbor not far from Sebring Florida
St. Jude Donor '11
Oldtimer
I am no expert on suspension setup, but I suggest that you also post or have this moved over to the tech section. A lot of racers over there that will be able to help.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 16,376
Likes: 404
From: Should this thoughtful, valuable contribution meet with no acknowledgement or 'thanks' this post----
sounds like your car is not lowered....lowering will greatly flatten it out as if on rails...among other things more technical, but start there...it's a free mod too!
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 51,504
Likes: 6
From: Sacramento CA
My car WAS lowered until this morning actually. I brought it back up a half inch.
C6 z06 shocks. I think the swaybars are C5 z06.
If I can get my C5 to handle a well as my Saab wagon (which has aftermarket swaybars and springs, stock struts) I will be more than happy.
If It will handle as well as my old c4 z51 did stock, I would be ecstatic.
The car has always kind of had a "buick" feeling when I really push it.
C6 z06 shocks. I think the swaybars are C5 z06.
If I can get my C5 to handle a well as my Saab wagon (which has aftermarket swaybars and springs, stock struts) I will be more than happy.
If It will handle as well as my old c4 z51 did stock, I would be ecstatic.
The car has always kind of had a "buick" feeling when I really push it.
Last edited by Kale; Jan 22, 2011 at 07:35 PM.
Supporting Vendor
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 8,550
Likes: 903
From: Republic of Texas
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Drifting
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,502
Likes: 61
From: Toronto
Define "wobbly"
If it rides like a buick, you probably have too much spring and not enough dampening. When you say wobbly, I'm interpreting it as bouncing around after a turn. If you have upgraded your sway bars, you must remember that they act like springs in a sense. If you twist them, they have to rebound too. If your "shocks" aren't up to the task of dampening that rebound, along with the oscillation of your springs after turning, then you'll experience that "buick" boat like wobble.
If you go with too much dampening, then it will be overdamped and ride harsh. You won't have any cushion from your springs.
EDIT:
I initially thought you were referring to transition out of a turn. If thats not the case, you can probably disregard the above. I'll just leave it for added info.
I think you are talking about in a turn, the car feels unstabble? Can you describe the feeling more? is it "twitchy?"
If it rides like a buick, you probably have too much spring and not enough dampening. When you say wobbly, I'm interpreting it as bouncing around after a turn. If you have upgraded your sway bars, you must remember that they act like springs in a sense. If you twist them, they have to rebound too. If your "shocks" aren't up to the task of dampening that rebound, along with the oscillation of your springs after turning, then you'll experience that "buick" boat like wobble.
If you go with too much dampening, then it will be overdamped and ride harsh. You won't have any cushion from your springs.
EDIT:
I initially thought you were referring to transition out of a turn. If thats not the case, you can probably disregard the above. I'll just leave it for added info.
I think you are talking about in a turn, the car feels unstabble? Can you describe the feeling more? is it "twitchy?"
Last edited by doublec4; Jan 23, 2011 at 03:32 AM.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 43,084
Likes: 33
From: Raleigh / Rolesville NC
a few things to consider to help cornering:
- alignment ( need the aggressive Z06 alignment or better. stock alignment will not do at all ) the more negative camber the better the cornering.
-tire age( not miles ) has more to do with handling. it tires are more then 2 years or 1500 miles your cornering ability has been comprised. New tires always corner best. this is the hard part as ppl can not buy new tires each year. so the compromise
- If the car is lowered more then 1" your corning will be highly reduced.
- Then sway bars
- then shocks
if the car feels unstable in corners sounds like it may be:
- under-steering. If that is the case, the tire widths need to be closer in the same size.
- alignment is OFF
- one shock is shot.
- end link came unbolted
32 PSI COLD is too high. 30 psi HOT ie 25 psi cold for better performance for most tires.
- alignment ( need the aggressive Z06 alignment or better. stock alignment will not do at all ) the more negative camber the better the cornering.
-tire age( not miles ) has more to do with handling. it tires are more then 2 years or 1500 miles your cornering ability has been comprised. New tires always corner best. this is the hard part as ppl can not buy new tires each year. so the compromise
- If the car is lowered more then 1" your corning will be highly reduced.
- Then sway bars
- then shocks
if the car feels unstable in corners sounds like it may be:
- under-steering. If that is the case, the tire widths need to be closer in the same size.
- alignment is OFF
- one shock is shot.
- end link came unbolted
32 PSI COLD is too high. 30 psi HOT ie 25 psi cold for better performance for most tires.
Last edited by AU N EGL; Jan 23, 2011 at 09:52 AM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,396
Likes: 52
From: Sicamous BC
By chance is it side stepping from uneven pavement, both my C5 & C6 experienced this when cornering aggressively.
Myself I do not like soft springs, to much dive & squat not that this is your issue.
As mentioned above aggressive alignments are more fun! With softer springs you will have more body roll so even more negative camber is needed. Another reason I like stiffer springs.
I had never thought of the over damped situation, that makes allot of sense! That would really aggrevate side steeping.
Myself I do not like soft springs, to much dive & squat not that this is your issue.
As mentioned above aggressive alignments are more fun! With softer springs you will have more body roll so even more negative camber is needed. Another reason I like stiffer springs.
I had never thought of the over damped situation, that makes allot of sense! That would really aggrevate side steeping.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 43,084
Likes: 33
From: Raleigh / Rolesville NC
to give you an idea;
one of my vettes is a track or road course car only
alignment:
front
camber -2.5*
toe: 1/32" OUT
Caster: Max but equal
Rear
Camber -1.25* 1/2 of front
toe: 1/32 IN
no ranges, no cross. EXACT.
Suspension:
GM T1. Just had shocks revalved.
Lowered 1" from stock or all the way UP for the T1
Tires Hoosier R80s
Front:
18x12 with 18x305/30 cold 20 PSI HOT 27 psi
Rear
18x13 with 18x335/30 Cold 18 PSI Hot 27 psi
can corner faster then most cars can go straight
two particular long sweeping corners a STOCK C5Z06 does about 45-50 before tires slide out. I do 75-80 mph might be able to push 82-83 mph before rear tires slide more then controlable.
one of my vettes is a track or road course car only
alignment:
front
camber -2.5*
toe: 1/32" OUT
Caster: Max but equal
Rear
Camber -1.25* 1/2 of front
toe: 1/32 IN
no ranges, no cross. EXACT.
Suspension:
GM T1. Just had shocks revalved.
Lowered 1" from stock or all the way UP for the T1
Tires Hoosier R80s
Front:
18x12 with 18x305/30 cold 20 PSI HOT 27 psi
Rear
18x13 with 18x335/30 Cold 18 PSI Hot 27 psi
can corner faster then most cars can go straight
two particular long sweeping corners a STOCK C5Z06 does about 45-50 before tires slide out. I do 75-80 mph might be able to push 82-83 mph before rear tires slide more then controlable.
Last edited by AU N EGL; Jan 23, 2011 at 10:03 AM.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 51,504
Likes: 6
From: Sacramento CA
Define "wobbly"
If it rides like a buick, you probably have too much spring and not enough dampening. When you say wobbly, I'm interpreting it as bouncing around after a turn. If you have upgraded your sway bars, you must remember that they act like springs in a sense. If you twist them, they have to rebound too. If your "shocks" aren't up to the task of dampening that rebound, along with the oscillation of your springs after turning, then you'll experience that "buick" boat like wobble.
If it rides like a buick, you probably have too much spring and not enough dampening. When you say wobbly, I'm interpreting it as bouncing around after a turn. If you have upgraded your sway bars, you must remember that they act like springs in a sense. If you twist them, they have to rebound too. If your "shocks" aren't up to the task of dampening that rebound, along with the oscillation of your springs after turning, then you'll experience that "buick" boat like wobble.
So is it just a terrible pairing between the base springs and c6 z06 shocks?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,396
Likes: 52
From: Sicamous BC
Sounds like you maybe over damped, sometimes it can be described as a pogo stick effect.
The rebound is to slow as it is meant for a much stiffer spring. What happens is when the first bump is absorb & the spring is compressed. It cannot return quick enough so when you hit the next bump the spring is not ready or has not returned to the correct position. Then stacking occurs & the pogo stick effect begins.
I hope I've described this correctly if not maybe some of the suspension guru's will correct me.
The rebound is to slow as it is meant for a much stiffer spring. What happens is when the first bump is absorb & the spring is compressed. It cannot return quick enough so when you hit the next bump the spring is not ready or has not returned to the correct position. Then stacking occurs & the pogo stick effect begins.
I hope I've described this correctly if not maybe some of the suspension guru's will correct me.
Racer
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 444
Likes: 4
From: Waynesboro VA
to give you an idea;
one of my vettes is a track or road course car only
alignment:
front
camber -2.5*
toe: 1/32" OUT
Caster: Max but equal
Rear
Camber -1.25* 1/2 of front
toe: 1/32 IN
no ranges, no cross. EXACT.
Suspension:
GM T1. Just had shocks revalved.
Lowered 1" from stock or all the way UP for the T1
Tires Hoosier R80s
Front:
18x12 with 18x305/30 cold 20 PSI HOT 27 psi
Rear
18x13 with 18x335/30 Cold 18 PSI Hot 27 psi
can corner faster then most cars can go straight
two particular long sweeping corners a STOCK C5Z06 does about 45-50 before tires slide out. I do 75-80 mph might be able to push 82-83 mph before rear tires slide more then controlable.
one of my vettes is a track or road course car only
alignment:
front
camber -2.5*
toe: 1/32" OUT
Caster: Max but equal
Rear
Camber -1.25* 1/2 of front
toe: 1/32 IN
no ranges, no cross. EXACT.
Suspension:
GM T1. Just had shocks revalved.
Lowered 1" from stock or all the way UP for the T1
Tires Hoosier R80s
Front:
18x12 with 18x305/30 cold 20 PSI HOT 27 psi
Rear
18x13 with 18x335/30 Cold 18 PSI Hot 27 psi
can corner faster then most cars can go straight
two particular long sweeping corners a STOCK C5Z06 does about 45-50 before tires slide out. I do 75-80 mph might be able to push 82-83 mph before rear tires slide more then controlable.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 51,504
Likes: 6
From: Sacramento CA
So would upgrading to c5 z06 springs help?
Ride quality is a pretty big concern of mine. I'm getting picky in my old age.
I miss the handling of my 86 corvette, but NOT the ride.
Ride quality is a pretty big concern of mine. I'm getting picky in my old age.
I miss the handling of my 86 corvette, but NOT the ride.
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,502
Likes: 61
From: Toronto
I may have misread your first post. I thought you said you had stock shocks, but you actually said you have stock springs. Hmm.
When you're riding in a straight line, do you feel like you're in a buick with the car hitting a bump and you still feel the car oscillating ten miles down the road? Or do you feel the bumps in a short, abrupt, and harsh way?
Also, did you say the tires you're running right now are crap?
When you're riding in a straight line, do you feel like you're in a buick with the car hitting a bump and you still feel the car oscillating ten miles down the road? Or do you feel the bumps in a short, abrupt, and harsh way?
Also, did you say the tires you're running right now are crap?