Hi All

Background: 2002 LS1 MN6 with 60k miles. I have a blackwing, XS Power headers with cats, Corsa Indy's and a tune. Currently dyno's at 346HP/352 TQ

Driving Style: It is not a daily driver, but I do not have any plans to race either on a strip or on a track. I drive mostly backroads and I am looking for a power boost on the low end. I am not willing to sacrifice low end tq for a high HP number because I simply do not run up in that range of the RPM's often. Basically only on the 1-2 shift when getting on it is when I hit 6k rpms. So I want this upgrade to give me more power where I am driving most of the time...on the low end. Also I do not want a car that shakes violently, but some shake is OK. I do not want to deal with surging.

About me: I am not mechanically inclined. I appreciate that many of you are going to tell me to do this swap myself. It is not even close to being an option. I will be bringing this to a reputible local shop and I am willing to pay the labor costs. However, also because this shop is an hour away, I really want this upgrade to be as reliable as possible. If you have input as to how to make this as reliable as possible (other then don't do it , please let me know)

Underdrive Pulley: Replacing the slightly wobbling factory harmonic balancer is what got me started on this project. I am going to go with a powerbond with a 25% underdrive on the accessories, but runs the stock size on the A/C. I do not plan to have them pin it.

A note on heads: For now I am going to stay on the stock 241 heads. However I may look to upgrade to either 243's or the TSP 5.3 stage 2's in the future. I will stay in the "budget heads" category. This is a factor in my cam choice as described below:

Cam choice: The leading choice is the TSP 228R: http://texas-speed.com/shop/item.asp...d=167&catid=44

I do have to choose between an LSA of 114 or 112. From what I have read the 112 will bring slightly more tq at lower RPM's. It will also have more of the idle chop. I like the chop, but does this also mean the car will shake more at idle? Not sure how much shake I want in the car. So does this cam seem to be a good choice given what I am looking for? It seems that it performs well with the 241 heads, and is a very good match for the 243's or ported 5.3L heads if I upgrade. Suggestions for something else to consider?

Springs: For reliability I am going with the PAC Beehive 1518 springs. Can someone confirm if I can reuse these springs if I goto a 243 or 5.3L head? I am assuming I can.

Pushrods - Will upgrade to the hardened rods from TSP. These can be reused if I upgrade the heads? I am assuming yes.

I will also put in an LS2 timing chain and a new oil pump with the job. All new gaskets will be new.

I am going to keep the stock injectors. I don't think I am pushing the limits of these yet (and I don't need to touch them even if I add heads?). I am also sticking with the factory LS6 intake and throttle body at this point. I do not see the hp/$ value in upgrading to the fast intake at this point.

I guess that is about it. Please let me know if there is anything else I should consider when planning for this upgrade? And yes I am pricing the LS7 clutch install already as the factory may not last too much longer.

Thanks for any input!

 

Two words for you, England Green. L8R ZFLASH

 

Call Texas-Speed and talk with them. I got my MS3 kit from them a few years ago. They are great to deal with and will make sure you get everything you need.

UD pulley is a good idea.

On the LSA, the 112 is going to shake. My MS3 is on a 112 and it rocks the car at idle.

As far as springs, you can use them on the 243's or 5.3 heads down the road depending on how many miles you put on them. Look into Advanced Induction for head porting.

The pushrods can be reused, but if you have the heads milled, you need to measure to make sure the length is correct.

I would look into the Comp double roller set over the LS2 chain. I got mine for $125 off ebay. Are you doing a ported oil pump?

You should be fine with the stock injectors, manifold, and TB.

Good luck and have fun!!!

 

LS motors get better results with a higher split duration, so I'd say a 224-228 with around .600 lift, and a LSA of 112+4. And, it wouldn't hurt to go up one size either, to a 228-232. When it's head time, get some 243s from TEA. Get them milled to 59-60 cc, the compression bump will give you great TQ, and raise your milage.

 

Give Arun a p.m. on here he is a vendor he has been working with a ton of diff cams now and has gotten it down really good. The one thing I like about him he will not sale you something if it is not needed. Robert

 

I assume a tune is also in the equation as well. Also if you haven't done so already at your mileage I would consider replacing the plugs and wires. This can also aid in finding potential problems down the road, and is worth knowing all the performance is there.

I went with a 112LSA on my cam and if you are a fan of the old muscle car sound and like that feel then I would recommend the 112. Once the engine is warmed up the shake isn't overwhelming.

 

Good info on some different cam specs. Anyone running these specs that can comment? 224-228 .600 lift LSA of 112+4.

Also going to 228-232....is driveability impacted at that point? I do have access to a good tuner. And how about the low end on this size? Do I give something up here?

0331Marine - What are the advantages to the comp double roller chain in my application? And yes I do plan on doing the Melling high flow oil pump.

Any thoughts on how often I will need to replace the springs with this type of setup?

Thanks for all the great input so far.

 

A retune will be done post install. I did plugs and wires when I did the headers a little while back. I really like the old muscle car sound. Just a bit worried about the shake. But I could get used to that The wife? Well....

 

Stay away from .600 lift. stock 243 heads do not flow will above .575. so the .581 or .588 lift is just fine. then it is easier on the valve train.


I also run a 112+4. car shakes so much at stop lights, the whole car rocks.

 

I have the TS 228R @ 112 and just love it.

 

I've always liked Comp. I dont know if there is really any advantages over the LS2 expect single vs double chains. I just feel better with the Comp set. At the same time, the LS2 chain is much better than the stock LS1 chain.

The whole spring life is a huge debate. With higher lift cams(+.600) some springs have been known to let go around 10K miles.

 

Six months ago I had a 224/230 .581/.588 113 LSA installed. It is my DD . It officially is a beast now. It made 416 rwhp and 392 rwtq (Mustang Dyno). Torque starts and stays above 350 lbs. from 3500 - 6200 rpm. Easy drivability. Nice lope @ idle (slightly shakes car ).

 

I run a Comp 228/332 114 set 1 degree back.

 

I talked with both the install shop and Texas Speed today.

The installer is giving quite a reduction on the head install if I do it together with the cam - labor would be an extra $300 over the cam. He likes Trickflows 220 as cast and I have to do some research on them first.

Texas Speed confirmed my choice of the 228R cam. However they talked about going with an lsa of 110! This surprised me and they downplayed the differences between 110, 112 and 114. Said 110 was a minimal difference versus 114. I think I am going to go with 113 as TSP can make it to spec. They also said to go with the PRC stage 1 LS6 heads versus the PRC stage 2.5 5.3 heads with this cam. I still have not decided if I am going to add heads.

The only other item I have changed my mind on is going with a ported LS6 oil pump over the Melling.

Finally, the installer is also offering a very nice price on the LS7 clutch install labor if I do it with the cam. $400. Can't pass that up. I bring the clutch purchased from GMParts at their low price.

Thanks for the input all. Much appreciated.

 

Back again

I have to decide on heads. No head upgrade vs TSP 243 Stage 1's vs Trickflow 220 as cast.

Looking for any that has a similar experience....Given my goals for the car: No track, no strip, just backroad romps and around the town driving, I would like some opinions on the value I would get from adding heads on the low end. Finding peak HP numbers on these upgrades stuff is possible via this forum and LS1tech, but it is very difficult to guage how the heads upgrade impacts the entire powerband and low end torque in the areas where I will at 95% of the time....

It is a bit complicated because with all the work I am doing the installer is discounting further on other things if I do heads. I am doing the cam and clutch. It basically comes down to adding the TSP 243 Stage 1 heads will add a total of $1550 to the job installed. The Trickflows 220 as cast will add about $2050 to the installed price.

The question - will I get enough value from heads to justify the cost...I know I know there is only one person that can decide that. But I know a lot of you have experiences and input that could help me. Installer feels like the trickflows will give an additional 15-20hp over the TSP's.

Thanks

 

Well if anyone stumbles back on this. Talked with the installer and TSP and we decided on the final set up upgrades:

TSP 228R Cam 112LSA
PAC 1518 springs
Hardened pushrods
PRC Stage 2.5 5.3L Head milled 61cc
Powerbond 25% U/D Pulley kit with belts
12560345 – C5 A/C Tensioner
12557334 – C5 A/C Idler Pulley
12568181 – 01-04 – Serpentine Belt Tensioner
12564401 – All C5 Serpentine Belt Idler Pulley 1
GM Gaskets for Heads/Cam incl bolts
GM LS6 Oil Pump Ported
Re-Tune
Replace starter
LS2 Chain
LS7 Lifters
LS7 Clutch kit including master cylinder, slave, pilot replacement
Inspect torque bushings
All fluids

I am right at $5500 for all this installed including tax

Thanks for all the help. Will post dyno graphs post install

 

Every think about getting a S/C? For the price VS HP gain you cant beat it. Also the car will drive like stock until you hit the gas. Unless you do you own install, a H/C car will cost you the same if not more than a S/C.

 

Lots of thought about the S/C. But the H+C is only part of that total cost. I also have a full clutch upgrade in there. I have to replace the starter and harmonic balancer anyway - which would be additional cost to a S/C install.

But I hear you. S/C was going to be $7500+ with a clutch and the other items I need.

 

Do you have anyone local that can help with the install? The things your doing arent very hard.

 

Texas Speed knows alot more that I do, but their interest lies in making the sale. I think their combo, for that price, installed is pretty good. I did all the work myself, and I'm a novice. That said, there were a few times I wished I'd hired it done. If the car's not a DD, and you have a nice protected work area, then you can consider DIY. I have a couple of tidbits of info about the parts you have lined up. The as cast Trickflow 220s are very good, but probably not 600 more than the Stg2 5.3s. I have hand finished 215s, and alot of my cam advice is influenced by them. Goldie's right about the lift kept around 550-575. But I will stand by my argument for a bigger duration split. I think the PAC springs are good, they came out after I did my H/C work. I like the PRC duals, which are good to .675. They use the same spring as an upgrade on TF heads. There's nothing wrong with the single duration cam, but the exhaust side can use a little help, IMO.