I have been on each side of the fence as it relates to Forced Induction. I am fairly happy with my car now but we all know power is addicting and I would like a little more. I think if I were to do a Supercharger setup and add 150-200rwhp to my setup then I would be above the level that I consider safe in having the benefit of a little margin for error (my car presently has some margin for error without spinning the rear end around, and that is with street tires). I don't want to go to drag radials and common opinion is that in the 600rwhp range street tires are tricky. I know many will refer to driver skill, I understand that. I am not anywhere near being a pro driver, much closer to novice if anything.

So, I am now considering possibly trying to eek a little more out of my N/A setup even tough it would not be nearly as cost effective as FI in a $ per HP calculation.

First, what would be the minimum HP increase that would be required to make it noticeable? 10HP? 20HP? 30HP? 40HP?

Second, could I get there through another means beside going all the way down the path of a Supercharger? Thoughts?

I might get a little more by further upgrading my headers to get some extra flow, but how much going from where I am to a bigger setup?

Switching cams might help some but how much? It would be an expensive job.

A new CAI (mine is 5 yrs old) could help by what, 5 hp?

Thanks for any thoughts you may have.



CURRENT:
M6
Vararam CAI
FAST102 Intake Manifold and Big Mouth TB
Flowtech Inductions cam; 219/227 duration, .626/.625 lift @ .050” on 112 + 3 LSA
PRC 227 Cylinder Heads
FAST Precision Flow 36lb fuel injectors
XS Power 1 3/4 Primary Long Tube Headers
XS Power 2 1/2 Catted X-Pipe
GHL Magnum Bullet Axleback
3.42 rear gear

 

Rule of thumb for any vehicle is that you need a 15% increase to feel it by the seat of your pants.
(I have no idea what that works out to relative to your current setup.)

 

Maybe some NOS?????

Going to FI now would mean a different cam and heads for lower compression.

A new cam and heads, and larger headers MAY get you another 40hp depending how big you go....I would guess your "around" 440hp now. Almost the same setup I have.

Instead of worrying about numbers, what about going to a 4.10 rear where you can actually make more out of what you have......

 

Jax,

My 2002 A4, when configured about the same as yours currently sits, dyno'd at 390 lbft of torque and 400+ hp, both measured at the rear wheel. (You didn't disclose your current configuration's power data.)My configuration incuded AFR 210 heads, a mild cam, K&N CAI, ported/polished manifold and throttle body, LG L/T Superpro headers with cats feeding into a Z06 exhaust.

Then I did exactly what you are considering doing...I added an A&A Vortech supercharger, plus a 3:42 gearset and a 2800 stall converter. My new set-up initially dyno'd at 590 rwhp, and could have been tuned even higher if I had asked for it. However, accepting the advice of my mechanic, we "de-tuned" my set-up (with a different pullley) to achieve about 540 rwhp. Why? As a safety factor since my engine's rods and pistons are not forged, and since my transmission is not "built up" to stand up to the additional power. As the mechanic said, "I don't want to have your car hauled back to me on a trailer."

I think your original question was, "Short of adding a supercharger, can I make meaningful increases in my car's power over and above the power I am achieving with my current set-up." I cannot answer that question, but wanted you to know the "what I might be able to get" and "what I safely can get" increases in power from your current configuration to a supercharged set-up.

Hope this is helpful.

The Lizzard

 

Thanks all. Good info. I am at 450rwhp now. I have considered changing the gears. It's still a solid option. It would produce seat of the pants change even though at the same power level.

 

Lizzard, I like the SC detuning option but it would seem to be giving up bang for the buck. Guess I'd just have to get over that.

 

I want about 500+ rwhp.... only because I'm on a stock bottom end now, and can increase boost later when I go forged(next spring - summer) and can safely go BIG.

 

So, Rick, you are going to detune to about 500? So you will be adding about 100 from the SC?

 

I was in the same boat, but was and still am running stock heads, I had done everything else but just did not have the extra change at the time to add the heads when we did everything else, well after 8 or 9 months I wanted more power and elected to have the A&A kit installed, it's a work of art in the engine bay and performs great, after install and tune with Meth my stock bottom end, stock LS-1 head motor is making 632 at the wheels & just short of 550 FPTQ and drives great, the cool thing about the blower is you really don't use it that much, at least not for normal daily driving, I have to fill my meth tank once every few months with normal driving and still get great mileage, but talk about fun when you point it and pull the trigger, it's overkill in some people's eyes but its amazing how much you can get out of the LS-1 with a little work.
You can't go wrong with a blower, loads of reliable power on stand by.
And for the record, I've ran the dog crap out of this set up, and it seems to love it, never misses a beat, of course I have plans to go forged in the future, when well that remains to be seen, if she keeps running like she does now ill keep changing the valve springs every few years till she tells me different.

 

I don't really know for sure what the numbers will be yet, I would like to gain enough to pull harder yet not too much to overstress the stock bottom end.

But in reality you just never know for sure when you'll lose the bottom end. I'm doing the best I can to prolong the life of the engine until I build me a forged block myself.

 

Here's your answer

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-p...-and-more.html

 

Are you on street tires? Is 632 at the rear wheels not so much power that you risk spinning the rear end around if you make a minor mistake in judgement? I don't want to have to be overly careful about downshifting and standing on the gas, so I am trying to determine what is the highest power level I can have while still affording me that luxury?

 

Perhaps so! I just need to make up my mind. If you haven't sold it in a week then let me know.

 

The D1SC head unit is way better then the PS units

 

Here are my thoughts...

Talking about "having the benefit of a little margin for error (my car presently has some margin for error without spinning the rear end around"

Adding another 150-200RWHP to your already 450RWHP may leave your drive train with things just spinning around because they are no longer connected to the things they should be spinning around….

Back to your questions…

“First, what would be the minimum HP increase that would be required to make it noticeable? 10HP? 20HP? 30HP? 40HP?”
I agree with a guy earlier, a 15% increase you will "feel". If you add 20 HP to a 150HP Honda you really "feel it" but 20HP to 450HP...not as much but you may still "feel it"

“Second, could I get there through another means beside going all the way down the path of a Supercharger? Thoughts?”

With what you already have, I have no answer…


Switching cams might help some but how much? It would be an expensive job. [B]Over the cam you have already have...I don't see alot left[B]

A new CAI (mine is 5 yrs old) could help by what, 5 hp? "MAYBE" 5 HP over what you have


Being you already have so many mods and put down 450 RWHP now, adding FI "could" put you to or past the breaking point on your otherwise stock drive train. I would give A&A a call and get their advice.

There was a post on here a while back that asked "how much horsepower is too much". There were many different answers but the one that made the most sense to me was:

If you have more power than you can possibly put through the drive train and to the road "while" maintaining traction, is wasted power (Wasted $$)

 

John,

First, you still ahve one of the all-time best license plates - love that thing everytime I see it.

Thanks for your thoughts - makes perfect sense and straight to my points. Basically, I see no way to add a minimum of 30-40 hp without going to FI so I am not going to even consider that. Your final point I agree with totally. I recall that thread and I perhaps may have even been the OP in that thread. Anyway, that is the most relevant point that was made several times in the thread. The question is, what is that magic number where power can't get to the ground without losing traction. I guess the answer depends on a variety of factors, not limited to suspension, tires and driver skill. That said, I think the common answer was somewhere in the 500-700 range. I guess I am asking of people to be more specific with their opinion here as that is a wide range between 500 and 700.

 

I am not very knowledgeable in the SC world but I have no doubt about that because I routinely hear the D1SC as being one of the choice units.

You mentioned that you bought it to install on your C5Z. Did you ever install it? You referenced it having 1,000 miles on it. Did you buy it used?

Thanks!

 

With your current set up my guess is approx. 410 +- 15 rwhp.

Add an SC with 6-8 psi and you'll be right at 500 -520

IF YOU HAVE A GOOD TUNE. POWER DOES NOT KILL MOTORS DETONATION DOES.

Your stock lower end will be OK and your drive train will hold up if you don't beat on it or launch with sticky tires at the track.

 

My current setup is 450rwhp. You think with 6-8lbs boost that it would only add 100rwhp? Anyway, that wouldn't be bad at all because I don't want to go too high.

I wouldn't have sticky drag tires and I don't do hard digs at launch on the street. I don't track my car and don't intend to more than perhaps once or twice just to try it. I can't afford to track it on a regular basis.

 

Let me know about the other question on the whether you installed it or not. Thanks!