I'll start by saying this post is not intended to be a product comparison or debate thread. What I'll try to do is provide a little background, an explanation of the problem(s), and the steps I've taken to resolve them.

I've been detailing my own cars for about 10 years. I've primarily worked with Meguiar's products and a Porter Cable [PC] DA Polisher. For defect removal, #83 Cleaner/Polish has been my go-to paired with #80 Speed Glaze prior to wax. Lately, I've used Ultimate Compound for defect removal and Ultimate Polish to finish before wax.

I've used a variety of waxes including #26 Yellow, Gold Class, NXT, and Ultimate. Up until today, I've only used Meguiar's Yellow Pads (W8006) for all applications. I also just received my first shipment of Zaino Z2 and Z5. Generally I reach for NXT or Ultimate because neither of them dust during removal and they're both pretty easy on black trim.

With background and products identified, I'll explain the problems. I just bought the car a few weeks ago. It's a 2003 with 20k miles. Overall, the paint was well cared for. The previous owners obviously kept it waxed because I don't have any acid/water/bird crap etching. However, it's clear they didn't understand the concept of managing swirl or hazing. I knew when I bought it the car was covered front to back with swirl marks--no surprise there. I attribute this failure to lack of any paint correction over the car's 11 year life and the use of abrasive products (towels). I've also got some hazing, and to my surprise on deep inspection last night, pigtails and a few tracers. From two feet away, you'd never see it. With the right light--well--let's just say I've got my work cut out for me.

Pictures will be forthcoming once I work out the process I'll use for each particular problem. I started experimenting in earnest about a week ago when I broke out my trusty W8006 and #83. Didn't even make a dent in the swirls. Since this combo has worked on every other car I've ever had, I was in unfamiliar territory. Next up: Ultimate Compound and a W8006. While this combo did take out some of the lighter swirls, it didn't have any impact on the pigtails, tracers, or deeper swirls.

At this point, I had to order more product because Yellow pads and UC was the most abrasive combo I had. I also opted to try alternatives like Zaino to fill swirls in the interim while I worked on each panel. So I ordered Z2, Z5, Meguiar's W7006 Maroon Cutting Pads, and M105.

If you're still reading, you probably already know W7006 and UC/M105 are not intended to be used with a DA. Meguiar's seems to be waffling on this a little lately but the logic is this combo can cause marring or hazing and they do not advocate regressive options. I received the W7006 yesterday and decided to take the risk and experiment on a small section of the deck lid where the swirls were the worst. Let me tell you something, C5 clear coat is hard stuff. A first pass on 4 with W7006 and UC did very little. I upped the speed to 5 then 5.5 and YahtZee!!! Finally made progress with those damn swirls. No marring, and no hazing that can't easily be handled with #83 or UP.

To summarize, here's what I've tried and what it did or didn't resolve:

1) #83/W8006 - Did nothing except remove some haze.
2) UC/W8006 - Impacted very light swirls. Did not impact deeper swirls, pig tails or tracers.
3) UC/W7006 - Winner! Removed most swirls. Put a good dent in a deep tracer and knocked the pigtails down significantly.

Still to be tried:

1) M105/W7006 on tracers and pigtails. I'm a little bit nervous about this one and will make very frequent progress checks. But my experience with UC/W7006 makes me hopeful. C5 clear is harder than any other clear I've personally worked with.
2) Step #1 will be followed by UC/W8006 then finally #83/W8006 or UP.
3) Z5/Z2 on the rest of the car while working on removing the defects.

I'm very interested in a Z5/Z2 combo for topcoat when I'm finished because it's just so easy to put on/take off, but I know I won't be satisfied with the finish until the vast majority of defects are removed.

Alright, so that's my process so far. I'm encouraged with my results on the decklid. I'll try and get some before and after pictures to show progress. I also wanted to document this because I couldn't find very many threads here or elsewhere on the use of M105 or UC with a W7006 and DA. Generally it's discouraged, but I found it was the only combo to make a dent in the defects.

J

 

Driver’s side rear quarter near top by decklid. This type of defect is common all over the car. You can really see it near the top right of the light.


You can see an “X” shaped pair of tracers here. These are actually pretty light, but UC/W8006 didn’t even make a dent in these.


This is an example of what the paint looks like after a pass with M105 on a W7006 cutting pad. You can see almost a milky sheen to the clear coat. That’s ok though, I know exactly what to do with this--keep reading.


Sorry, it’s tough to get a pic with a light in one hand and the camera in the other. But you can really get an idea of what I’m dealing with in this pic. There are swirls emanating from the center of the light on both sides. The haze you see is prevalent all over the car.


Good example of tracers. Again, #83 and UC didn’t do a thing to these. On other cars, either one of those compounds will normally eliminate lighter tracers like this.


More swirls. This poor paint has just been abused for 11 years.


Ugly isn’t it? This looks like *** at night under any kind of light. Bright sunlight also exposes these swirls and they’re ALL OVER.


One last example on the hood--these defects are all over the place.


I didn’t bother taking pics of the correction work. The haze you see on the hood and fender is Zaino Z5. By this point here’s what I did:

- Quick Detail the whole car
- Clayed every inch
- M105/W7006
- UP/W8006
- Z5


Yeah baby! Now we’re talking! That’s what paint should look like.


More of the corrected hood. Believe it or not, I still have more work to do.


I opened the hood and tried to use the workshop lights and reflections of stuff in the garage to show elimination of the minor haze left by M105. I took care of it with UP/W8006. It’s a very nice/clear surface now. There are still a number of defects I need to work out. I’d probably call this 85% there.


Driver’s front fender. I can probably do a little more work with UP or #80 here to eliminate the last little bit of fog, but those nasty swirls are OUTTA HERE!


Here are some things I learned about paint correction today:

1) M105 on a W7006 with a DA works just fine on C5 clear coat. It does slightly fog the clear if you get aggressive. I was at 5 or 5.5 most of the night with M105. It's easy to take care of the fog though. Just step down to a less aggressive pad/product. I was 'ok' with UP on a W8006, but...see #2. I think that will really knock the cover off the ball.

2) Once the major defects were taken care of, I skipped UC and went straight to UP on a W8006. This may have been the lazy way out. I think once I get some feeling back in my arms, I'll try some UC on a W8006 to really work on remaining hazy areas and I'll follow that up with UP on a W8006 and finally #9 pure polish on a W9006 finishing pad.

EDIT: Yeah, this didn't work. Skipping UC and going to UP looked fine under garage lights but sunshine told me a completely different story. I had to go back to UC on a Yellow pad. I started with the decklid and made 3 or 4 passes before the M105 abrasions were what I consider manageable. So...still quite a bit more to do. I'm really starting to think about a rotary now.

3) Not loving the Zaino. I tried it on the hood and after I buffed it off and inspected closely with a light I saw quite a bit of unevenness. I removed it with some UP and replaced with Ultimate Wax and thought it looked much better and more even. I only let it cure for an hour and I didn't use any ZFX. So I may take another shot at it with a little sunshine to help with the curing, but as of right now I am underwhelmed.

4) It's still not perfect but it is a far cry from where I started. I feel like the paint is at least under control now and I can focus on much smaller areas at a time.

I hope this info is useful for others trying to fix past mistakes. It may seem a little OCD if you're not into detailing like this; but, this type of corrective work really does make a difference in the overall appearance of the car.


Off Topic Fun
We found that little black furball abandoned in a parking lot about a year ago. He claimed my daughter as his person. He’s pretty friendly, but doesn’t let anybody really hold him for more than a minute—except for the girl. She can do just about anything she wants to him and he lets her. She dressed him up like Harry Potter a few nights ago. She decided to put him in the “Box of Shame” for being ornery tonight. She carried him around the house like this for a while. Crazy cat!

 

 

With a PC I never had good luck with meguiars product on the hard clear coat. I used menzerna products and that took 99% of my swirls rids and tracers off. I also stepped up to a rotary and that thing is amazing! Don't be afraid of using one, just practice on a junkyard panel until you're confident you won't mess up.

 

I only understood part of what I read, hoping pics will help with that. I know my cars finish needs help but I don't trust my skill or knowledge to dive in.

 

In for the pictures

 

Yeah, I've been afraid of rotaries. I know what they can do vs. a DA. Takes a real gorilla effort to screw up with a DA. I'm working in the spirit of least-aggressive options first. If I can't get it under control with M105 and the W7006, I'll be hunting down a rotary. I've also tended to stick with Meguiar's for correction purposes because I'm not that smart and their aggressiveness scale makes a lot of sense to me. I've heard about menzerna and may look at other options pending the outcome of the M105.

Short answer is to get the following:
- Porter Cable DA Polisher
- 2 Meguiar's Yellow Pads - Softbuff 2.0 W8207 or W8006. One pad for compound. One pad for polish. You'll need/want more later. But this will get you started. Main issue is do not cross contaminate. i.e. Don't use one pad with compound then switch over to polish using the same pad.
- One bottle of Ultimate Compound
- One bottle of Ultimate Polish
- One bottle of Ultimate or NXT2.0 Wax
- Claybar kit (any reputable brand is fine. I like Mother's clay)

1) Clay the car

2) Use 1 Yellow Pad with Compound to remove defects. Use least aggressive combination of pad to get the job done. That's why I started with #83 and W8006. In my original post #83 and W8006 pad were not impacting the defects. So I stepped up the compound first and went to Ultimate Compound. Still no joy. Next was to increase the aggressiveness of the pad. So W7006 and UC which did the trick for most of it. I'm going to use the M105 and W7006 for the particularly troublesome areas--but very sparingly.

3) Use 1 Yellow Pad with Polish to remove light haze from compound. I'm not sure if #80 is more or less aggressive than Ultimate Polish. I think they're very close--probably interchangeable.

4) Topcoat

There are tons of videos out there on the proper technique for using a DA and Compound to remove swirls so I won't cover that here.

Pads - Least Aggressive to Most Aggressive:
W9006 - Beige - Use to polish/buff
W8006/W8207 - Yellow - Use to remove swirls/haze
W7006 /W7207- Maroon - Cutting pad. Use with caution. Results can be frightening looking (Marring/hazing).

Compounds - Least Aggressive to Most Aggressive (W8006 or W7006 pads):
#83 Dual Action Cleaner/Polish (Professional Line)
Ultimate Compound (Consumer Line)
M105 Mirror Glaze Ultra Cut Compound (Professional Line)

Polishes (W8006 or W9006 pads)
#80 Professional Speed Glaze (Professional Line)
Ultimate Polish (Consumer Line)

Top Coats
NXT/Ultimate Wax (Consumer)
Zaino Z5/Z2 (Z5 for darker cars/swirls, Z2 for good condition paint)

If you read through this post then go back to the first one, it might make more sense.

 

I got amazing results for an amateur w/ M105-205 and aggressive foam pad/DA.
Personally I liked Menzerna SIP & P083 a little better but did cut/level C5 clear with 105.
Then Z5 / Z2. I think you will be successful.

Don't laugh: When you've got the correction done one bored rainy Saturday, with a clean (no zaino) surface I dare you to try Turtle wax Black Box. Doesn't last past a wash, but absolutely amazing for $12 and a 2-step process. In certain light / angles, I swear I never saw a shine like that on my factory C5 black.

Flame suit on.
Z2/Z5 on car now.

Good Luck

 

PS If you stick with yellow pads and #83 or lower on a Porter Cable DA, you would have to be an absolute GORILLA to mess it up. I've been using this combo for years on lots of different cars with great success. Just watch a couple of videos to learn the proper technique and you can do it. You'll be amazed at the quality of finish you can get on a car with the right tools/products.

 

Glad to hear you got good results with M105. C5 clear coat is beast hard. Thanks for validating my strategy. I'm trying to step up as gradually as possible and plan to limit M105 to the worst areas.

I recall trying that Black Box kit and don't think I got a very level finish. It looked blotchy. I also recall it being very stubborn to remove. I have high hopes for the Z5/Z2. I'll see how it does and maybe toy around with Black Box after I have the situation under control.

 

First let me say I've done some corrections on my C5 & C6 over the years but am still just an amateur. I just did my C6 last weekend using M105 & M205 (after reading a lot of reviews on a car care forum about it and its non diminishing particles working well with a DA) with 5.5" Lake Country orange and green pads and it came great. I had a lot of swirls to begin with but it took 99% of them out. I started off with my trusty old Porter Cable 7424 but ended up going to Harbor Freight and getting a DA from them. It has a lot more power then my old one and worked a lot better for me. I just spent a couple hours today getting the splattered polish off (told you I was an amateur and I had even spent a lot of time taping areas off! ) and put some Souveran wax on it today. I could post some pics but in the 15 minutes I took it out of the garage to see how it turned out it's already covered in pollen!

One tip I wished I had known last weekend was to spritz the pads with baby oil before using the M105/M205, just about totally eliminates the dusting problem and really increases the time you can work it.

Just my two cents...

 

Yup, I think we're on the same track. W7006 is a cutting pad I believe similar to LC Orange. I always prime my pads before using and that has served me well.

Glad to have all you guys chiming in on successes you've had with M105. I've been knashing my knuckles all day waiting for it to get here and try it out. I'm more confident with your replies. Thanks.

 

I had the same problem when I bought the SS. Zanio, fusion, Z5 Z2 and that took care of it

 

Am a real fan of Menzera polishes, and Dura Gloss products, completed quite a few details with these compounds. Initally had a PC and moved to a Flex DA, works very well for me. Detailing is not a business for me, i enjoy doing it.
The C5 clear coat is VERY Hard!!

Looking forward to seeing your pic's

 

 

Looking forward to seeing the pics and reading how things turn out.

 

I started out with a Porter Cable years ago and you can get pretty good results if you have the time, but your tongue will be hanging out before you reach nirvana.

Once I got serious, I switched to a Flex RO and Lake County Hydro-Tech pads - lot of advantages including different size backing plates. Yes, a Flex IS capable of damaging the paint if you try to, but I have never had a problem - just works faster!

I use Menzerna SIP and Menzerna Nano Polishes for cutting.

Finish with as many Zaino coats as time allows and finish with Zaino CS for that wet look! BTW I have never seen that Z5 has ANY noticeable "filling" advantage as advertised, but I still use it.

 

Is that what Zaino did to a C5???... Damn.

 

I know, completely agree. See Post #2. Pics are up.

They're up.

Right there with you. I was pretty worn out after about 6 hours of work on it tonight.

I've seen your car in other threads. You've done an excellent job with your paint. Congrats. That's what I'm aiming for. I have a long way to go and even though I had some good success tonight, it took a lot of time. I may have to bite the bullet and 'get serious'.

Thanks for sharing...

 

Lots of folks swear by that 'filling advantage' and I thought I'd give it a go as an interim step while I work out the defects. At the end of the day though, I subscribe to the school of thought that says the only real option is to eliminate the defects. I believe all polishes/topcoats will look better on a defect free (or nearly free) surface.

Since you seem to have Zaino down, what do you make of my experience with the blotchiness/uneven appearance I saw tonight? I only gave it about an hour. Did I just not let it cure long enough? Also, do you use Z2 or just Z5 + CS?