Why wouldnt you? Can you recommend some alternative H/C combos and your reasoning? Trying hard to learn?

 

I'm getting a little comfused, I thought the best way to maximize your hp AND area under the curve was to match everything. The Fast 92 setup flows about 300 cfm I read somewhere, the 2.5 stage heads flow just about 320 cfm at .600 lift (basically platueing) and the cam I chose has a max lift right about .600" and a good amount of duration to take a nice deep breath, combinded with a narrow LSA (112 or 111 degrees) should help with the midrange?

Please help me if I'm wrong?

Thanks

 

I know I'm a hop-skip-jump away from 500rwhp but I have thought about it and I dont want to do a head swap. More money than I want to spend on the motor for this.

One thing I did forget is I want to bump the rev limiter to 7100 so i can shift at 7000. I'm wondering what I need to do this?

I'm thinking Ti retainers and locks, I have Yella light weight roller rockers and Comp Cams hardened push rods and some PRC double spring VS's

What else am I missing here? (just dont want it to scatter itself) NO I dont plan on turning this all the time, just once in a while.

 

Don't over think it too much.
Get the 243 heads ported by someone reputable with references.
Do the fast 92/92.
Underdrive pulley if you want.
Have a guy like Ed Curtis spec out the cam and springs based on your wants/needs and setup.
Get it tuned well and your're done.
The setup will be stout.
If you want to rev to 7000 most people will recommend Ti intake valves which will drive the cost up so you may want to bump the limiter to 6800 for safety and use what you have. The occasional 7000 rpm shift should be ok but likely not worth pushing the envelope unless you are racing in competition.

I have spun the stock bottom end to 7600 in competition a few times with my cam only LS6 but only when I absolutely had to. And I do have Ti valves, upgraded stock rockers, and a high rpm single spring.

 

Ok I'm glad I was on the right page. I was starting to question my last 15-20 years. haha

I think I'm going to stick with this setup (or similar) I know people on forums (myself included) are always trying to get our fellow gear heads to stretch the budgets and go for gold, but I want a supercharger if I do anything beyond this 'basic' setup.

I bet 7600 rpmmade your butt pucker! haha thanks for the helpful advice. I already have some double valve springs (still in box) But I'm thinking I'm going to do some more research and call 3 places about cam specs and see what they recommend.

Also I'm going to look into Ti valves, a vette should SING and I would rather 'invest' money into that (yes I know it wont make more power up there). But I'm already planning on Ti hardware and got light weight rockers already so I'm getting there.

Thanks again

 

If you're planning on a SC soon, alot of this cam/head talk is superfluous. A couple of lbs of boost can go further than any H/C combo, and you don't have to pull the heads. Not to mention, your cam choice would change to optimize a FI setup. Just sayin'.

 

Def not soon and might not at all. The money isn't the issue its just that I want a nice setup that will put me between 450-500 hp to the tire and have nice driving/cruising manners and will scream when I want it too. Once I get this dialed in a year or so when/if I want more hp I'll just boost it. no sense in spending $3500+ On new heads and cam setup to make more power when for $5k I could max out an LS6 bottom end. Just bang-for-the-buck is what I'm looking at and thinking. There is a point of diminishing returns on an NA car and I feel like 450-500 is where that about starts.

Something with some serious punch and torque, nasty idle, and makes great power everywhere and can scream is the goal. Not a max effort NA build or anything close.

Thanks for all the help. And yes I completely agree with you about 'optimizing' an FI setup looks different than NA, but a cam with a nice amount of duramation will be fine and still peg a LS6 bottom end. I know it's not the BEST of more efficient method for sure. But I have 3 other projects to spread money between so I need to be wise!

What does the stock fuel system support in these? And what's it take to support 500-550 hp? (Safety margin)


Thanks again for all the great help fellas!! Good to be aware of all this and educated

 

there's no magic equation. i would just look for lobes that are more mild than the average drag cam. keep in mind a lot of people rarely drive their cars and only care about hp or straight line performance. if the engine will live for 2hrs on a track running laps isn't high on the list, to me, it's the #1 priority as i absolutely hate pulling engines and transmissions which tends to go hand in hand with modding cars. in fact one of my facebook friends who actually drives a modded car seems to be pulling the engine around once a year. me myself i've blown up 13 engines in my life and see a lot of people going down the same path on here.

you can greatly increase the life of said engine by doing 2 things

1. keep the rpms within what the bottom end can actually handle. for a stock ls6 that's 6500.

2. use cam lobes that do not beat the hell out of the guides and seats and do not stress springs

450hp is not at all unreasonable to make under 6500 so there's no need to spin higher. katech has made some very very good endurance engines and they also do 1st class headwork. i would call & chat with them,. have them cnc your heads and do the guides and seats. see what they have to say about cams and if they have reviewed or tested many lobes for the ls1 variants

the texas speed 228r is a very popular one for the stock bottom end and could hit 450 if everything else is optimized. staying with a cam like this is SO much more driveable in traffic and will actually idle.

those cams near 240@.50 have a horrible idle. are a major pain to drive day to day and are optimized for weekend drivers who drag race and do pulls from time to time

 

In this race in the video I believe I had the limiter set over 7500rpms.

Goto 6:55 and at 7:43 I bounce off the limiter going thru the traps.

http://api.viglink.com/api/click?for...%20-%20YouTube

The stock bottom ends prbably wasn't too happy.

 

Despite what you may have read, 500 RW is pretty spendy, not to mention, difficult to achieve, if you stay NA. (stock displacement) You don't say which parts on your list have already been purchased, so...if you don't have the heads yet, I highly recommend BTR (Brian Tooley Racing) for a optimal H/C setup. I just thought I'd relate my experience with modding. I started with headers, and H/C, then ported FAST90, EWP, UD pulley. This' over time from 03-07. Always lusted after an A&A SC setup, and Andy had a big sale...started breaking things, like clutch, diff. Had to buy $$ clutch, built diff, and so on. I actually demodded when I SC'd it. Replaced my FAST, with a LS6, sold the EWP, and of course, the pulley. Put a blower cam in at the same time as I installed the SC. Of course, with this modding method, I spent more $$, even buying things twice, like the intake. It's really kind of stupid doing things this way, and I wouldn't do it over. Kind of became a hobby, because I like wrenching stuff myself, but still, stupid. Now the car has no traction, and I can't use the power until crazy speeds on the street, since I've never raced it.

 

OP

pay very close attention to the above, it's spot on accurate and a situation more than a few people get into

also NA on a 346ci 440-450hp is doable fairly easy, as said above 500 is different and the money climbs, life of the engine also starts going down really quick

i have been to more than one autocross where these modded cars with a lot of hp get handled by a stock z06 on good tires

 

Ok guys I think we are starting to get a little off track here and people are losing my goal. I'm well aware of how much it cost get to 500hp. never said was cheap. not once. I said the point of deminishing returns is in that range. And I'm still on the cheap side of modding cars.

I'm still not doing a set of heads, i'd rather just boost it. And when you do boost a car or have it make more power, yes the faster you need to go to get traction. This is where modulating your right foot comes in, the person who wins a dig race is the one who modulates the power the best.

All of this is supposed to be for fun and I completely agree it is 100% a hobby, we all spend $ we dont have, on parts we dont need, to beat people we dont know. But lets face it, this is how we all make friends right?

I respect everyone's opinions on here, and i know 90% of us are doing this on iphones so we probably miss some key details so dont think I'm flustered. Just trying to make sure we stay on the straight and narrow with what my goal is (and its NOT 500hp NA). Eventually I will boost it and that will only be to the stock LS6 bottom end abilities. I know all to well about how drivability tanks, that's the main reason i will not head swap the car. Its just a line i wont cross. I want the high velocities in order to keep good low end, and also it means there is no sense in a gnarly cam so that also wont hurt my drivability. Thanks guys for the heads up. But as I said, I've done that too many times, created a WICKED creation....and hated it. NOT doing it again

I am still wondering about the fuel system? Any inputs on a pump? -oh, i'm also doing fuel rails too, i know not needed but they look 1000x better.

 

Diminishing retuens happens in that range. EXACTLY!

 

I didn't read every setup but I will at least tell you mine. Its the "cheaper" end of the spectrum. Blackwing intake, Vararam Air bridge, ported stock throttle body, stock Intake maniflold, Texas Speed 1 3/4 headers, Texas Speed PRC 2.5 5.3 castings, Texas speed cam 238/242 .605 .610 I think (its close to that) it made 461whp 405ft/lbs on a Dyno-jet. Big cam life all depends on the tune. TUNE TUNE TUNE. I honestly think the drivability of a big cam is no big deal.

 

http://texas-speed.com/p-248-racetronix-ls1ls6-42-lbhr-fuel-injectors.aspx

Going to get a set of injectors - PAYDAY!!!!

Thinking a nice set of racetronix. Thoughts?

 

This is really good to hear about thanks. Good to see #'s too

 

if boost is anywhere in the future do it now, don't even bother NA modding. port the heads, get some headers and boost. MUCH easier for daily driving than a monster cam

you can make all the power you want with forced induction

 

That was what I was trying to say, but you said it better.

 

In no way am I set on boosting the car. I'm saying I would be more apt to buy a procharger or whipple over a set of heads. Plus a boosted car doesnt sound mean like a built NA car in my mind. Nicer to drive for sure, but its a vette, its not comfortable like my malibu is, but it never was intended to be.

I want a nice NA car and then in a year or two I will go FI if I'm bored.

Thanks for the input fellas.

 

Quite frankly it depends on your usage. Everyone loves a racecar...everyone wants that capability when they take to the road course, but the fact is you need to consider the 90% use. Truly, you spend the MOST time in your mid range rpm's. Yeah, you want to do pulls, have fun, but overall, if it's a street car a supercharger is absolutely hard to beat. From a cost perspective, from a reversibility perspective, from a streetable easy to drive perspective, you really can't beat it.

I HEAVILY debated this very argument with my car. In the end, I AA supercharged my car, and honestly...on a stock motor, for the street...it's just unbeatable for the money I spent. I am at 580whp...I can beat a lot of quick cars in a quick little street fight, but I can also enjoy a ton of mid range usable power at part throttle...all while enjoying like stock manners at low rpm's and highway rpm (1650'ish,etc).

I love an N/A car more than anything...it's truly what I prefer. When I look at the stock C5Z though, and the kind of performance I wanted versus what's coming off of dealer lots and the fact my car is an absolute street car (I track an E36 m3 dedicated car), I had to go with the supercharger, then add brakes and suspension to balance the car.

You must consider it's absolute use 85% of the time or inevitably you'll feel inconvenienced by the car or the way it behaves...inevitably driving it less.