Of course you can exceed it. I simply doubt you could strip it using a little box wrench. Or at least if you DID, it would require an obscene amount of effort that in no way could be interpreted as reasonable.

Things I have never done:

1. Used a torque wrench on an oil drain plug
2. Used a torque wrench on an oil filter

Things that have never happened to me:

1. Oil drain plug fell out
2. Oil drain plug leaked
3. Oil drain plug stripped
4. Oil filter fell out out
5. Oil filter stripped
6. Oil filter leaked

 

 

Good for all of you guys that don't use torque wrenches.You all have been lucky.

My C5 had the oil pan drain plug stripped out by the dealership before I bought the C5.. And the bottom pan had to be replaced.

I saw the flow of service order paperwork involved in this incident. Started with customer reporting leakage from the plug several times-until finally the plug hole was stripped after the third customer complaint. I wonder have that happened? (Probably because the mechanic used a torque wrench those three times-right? )! The mechanic probably cross threaded it and didn't start the plug by hand-too busy to do that and use a torque wrench. He too probably never had a problem doing it that way .

Plugs can be stripped though-maybe by no one on this forum. But if I was paying to have the work done-and I saw the mechanic tighten a fastener in aluminum-and he didn't use a torque wrench-I would never go back there again.

And you never had an oil filter, placed by someone else, on an engine that was difficult to remove? Really? This usually occurs when the filter is installed with a filter tool and NO torque wrench- in my experience.

Not only does using a torque wrench allow for only the correct torque to be applied-but it makes you double check each fastener and make sure that is tight.

Like I said-my new dealership installed oil filter was on my C5 less than finger tight. I noticed this when my forearm brushed up against it momentarily. the oil filter moved on it's thread! It was really loose and would have fallen off-or would probably first leaked out oil and the engine would have lost oil pressure.

Just because you haven't experienced a problem first hand-doesn't mean that it can't occur in the future.

Luck shouldn't be confused with good sense and good work practice.

I care enough about my Corvette-that I will be willing to take several additional minutes to make sure that the work is done right. I have experienced poor workmanship of others over the years-usually involving people that are convinced-"You don't need to do that -it is a waste of time"--even though the factory and engineers recommend it.

 

I use torque wrenches for torque sensitive applications.

Drain plugs are not one of those.

Apples and oranges buddy ... cross threading is not the same as over torquing. And you don't need to over torque to strip threads if you're cross threaded. A torque wrench will protect you from one, not the other. Try to stay on topic.

There's a concept called the "mechanic's feel". Case in point: I was helping a friend put the transmission pan back on a 3000 GT one weekend. He thought he'd be clever and put loctite on all the bolts. I did one half with just a plain old socket wrench. He did the other half with a torque wrench. What he failed to consider however is that wet loctite actually acts as a lubricant greatly decreasing thread friction thus lowering indicated torque. And he stripped out every bolt on his side. Now guess how many were stripped on my side ... yep ... 0.

Again, try to stay on topic. Nowhere in my list will you see an entry for never having to deal with some monkey that over torqued things before me. When I install oil filters, they go on by hand and they come off by hand. And to this day after hundreds of oil changes, I have yet to have an oil filter that I installed come loose unexpectedly or leak.

I've already mentioned why using a torque wrench on an oil filter is a bad idea. You need to measure deflection/compression not torque (which I do). But you're welcome to keep doing it wrong.

Nor should the work of the monkeys that you're apparently allowing to work on your car be confused with that of experienced and knowledgeable hands.

See prior point, maybe you should stop taking your car to retards.

 

 

I cant believe this thread..lol better torque down the oil cap next..

 

Drain plugs are torque sensitive-too loose or too tight isnt good.



My point was that using a torque wrench wouldn't have permitted the fastener to be cross threaded. The high torque seen initially- when cross threaded-and not a gradual increase in torque resistance-would have let the mechanic know that it is cross threaded. I am on topic



Part of the torque rating of a fastener application is if the threads are dry or not. Oil or anything else on the threads will change the torque necessary.



I usually don't allow anyone to work on my vehicles--unless it is warranty work or if the vehicle is used and the previous owner or shop did the work.

I have noticed over the years that even when a filter is hand tightened on an engine that has been setting since being turned off-the hand torque it takes to remove it when the engine is hot-is much more. This is especially apparent when aluminum and steel is involved . The hot expansion rates are different.



It is WRONG to use a torque wrench and WRONG to use the factory specified torque on a oil filter? Never heard anyone state that before. Never had an issue with removing a filter when it has been torqued correctly. But I have had issues with filters that have not been torqued correctly. You also have to consider the fact that not all oil filters are readily accessible to hand removal and installation. This is especially an issue with the new small oil filters on imports . Not enough room to hand tighten-and sometimes only an extension and socket drive is the only way to reach it. Easy to tighten with a torque wrench.



Not confusing the possibility that the work can be done by hand-but what is saved by not doing it correctly?



Like I said-only warranty work gets done by others.

 

Does anyone have the TORQUE SPECS for the valve stem caps? Thinking of doing some aftermarket ones.

 

There are different issues involved between losing a valve stem cap or an oil plug. And because there is a difference-I will take more care when it involves possible lost of oil pressure. And I never heard of anyone safety wiring a valve stem cap.

Anyone that has had a Harley or any motorcycle will realize the importance of correct torque-or the lack of it. Engines that run at high RPM or with some inherent imbalance- make this especially important.

 

pretty much sums up this whole ordeal

 

See my above response. And the fact that the factory as a torque specification for oil pan drain plugs-but not for valve caps-should tell us something.

 

Someone will always take things to an ABSURD level, no matter what it is. If he want to use a Torque Wrench let him waste his time any way he likes.

 

Or safety wire it?

Let's face it-if there is a torque specification in the shop manual for a fastener-it should be adhered to.

 

Some can only be torqued during initial assembly, trying to get a torque wrench in some places with the car all together can be impossible.

 

Uhh no, wrong. Drain plugs are not structural fasteners by design. Torque sensitive applications would be things like head bolts. You saying a thing does not make it so.

Wrong again! Using a torque wrench might give you an indication that something isn't right, but it doesn't keep the monkeys that you like to use from over torquing anything. If anything, it'll probably make it easier since torque wrenches are typically a bit longer.

Think about it another way. If the monkey is too stupid to start the plug with his fingers and ensure full thread engagement before putting a wrench to it, do you REALLY think he gives any f'ks what the reading on a torque wrench is?

So are you responsible for all these failures of drain plugs and filters on your cars or are we blaming it on everyone else?

Uhhhh yes, the expansion rates are different, but if you think that makes any difference as to how hard a oil filter is to remove, then you are seriously smoking some good chit. The extra effort required to remove a filter is due to the "sticktion" that the gasket develops with its mating surface on the block. It has absolutely nothing to do with thermal expansion. Prove it to yourself. Break an old filter (1) off a hot engine, then torque it back down to exactly where it was before (2) and then back off again (3). Take the torque reading for each of those steps. You'll find (1) to be much higher than (2) and (3) which will be nearly equal. The only difference is measurement (1) was taken while fighting sticktion.

As I stated, using a torque reading on such a thick rubber gasket can give you surprisingly large deviations depending on the durometer rating of the rubber, thickness, and shape of the gasket. You can use a torque wrench if it pleases you, and you'll probably never have a problem, but just let it be known that you are using an approximation based on a number of assumptions. And the more accurate way to install such a gasket is indeed to measure the amount of compression.

I am doing it correctly. My failure rate for drain plugs and filters in my C5 over 102k miles is still at 0.

 

Never said that drain plugs are structural and not comparing them to head bolts. But they are--kind of important. And I believe most of us would agree as to their importance. Let's stay on topic.



I thing that most of us would agree--most mistakes are not made with torque wrench usage. And I haven't seen a monkey with a Torque Wrench--but have seen them with a hammer!



As stated before: Only warranty work or previous owner work have been issues for me . Stripped oil drain plug and very loose filter on one vehicle--before I bought it used.



I grant you this--"sticktion" or perhaps-- stiction of the gasket-- especially on aftermarket filters --can be a variable. And this potential variable is best addressed by a torque wrench--because there is a safety range embedded within the specification. Your argument is making my case.

Be I believe that expansion rates are an issue--that is made worse when different metals are involved. And the gasket may be an issue also that is involved when range of temperature is involved. I have had an instance of trying to remove an oil filter on a 1991 4x4 Honda Civic--that had the filter on the backside of the transverse engine--between the fire wall and rear side of the engine-- and above the rear drive shaft. I tried to remove it when the filter and engine was hot--couldn't get enough room to get leverage on it . Only after I waited several hours--could the filter be removed. Small diameter filter, and the limited space to work in-- prevented leverage being applied--was also an issue. But temperature was also. That Honda engine block and the filter base on the block were all aluminum.


And as I stated before: the factory torque specification takes the possible aftermarket filter gasket variables into consideration--and is a nominal rating. Both your hand and my torque wrench measure resistance when tightening filter--just the Torque wrench is more definitive and precise. IMHO



I am not surprised. You seem to be informed,experienced --and you also enjoy the same vintage of Corvette that I do!

I did the manual,by mechanics feel, fastener tightening --just like you espouse. And I did like that for over 25 years. And I too never had a failure!

But after I got my C5--one of the nicest cars that I have ever had--I reconsidered and will try now to do it by the book.

I am surprised at the push back from some of you guys concerning this issue. I have high regards for all of you. The information you guys give us on this forum is outstanding!

But the argument against using factory specifications as regards to fasteners on our beloved C5s--is kind of like having a world renowned surgeon state that it isn't necessary--and actually wrong-- for a surgeon to wash his hands before surgery --and immediately after taking a bowel movement!

If I upset you or anyone on this forum--I am truly sorry and it wasn't my intent.

 

I agree! See my above post.

 

I realize this situation is possible and agree.

 

Nope, this absolutely does not make your case because sticktion only happens over time with repeated heat cycles. Using a torque wrench for install will make little to no difference with regards to sticktion. (You're really grasping at straws here.)

Nope, measurement of deflection and/or stretch is invariably going to be more precise than torque. This might shock you, but torque is actually a secondary measurement through which the prior (deflection/stretch) is inferred. The reason we resort to using torque is because it's a much easier measurement to make not because it's more accurate. Did you know that it's a common practice to reassemble LS series heads by measuring degrees of revolution on the head bolts instead of torque?

Good to know You should trust yourself more.

I can certainly understand that. But my perspective is I know that I'm not going to f'k it up. If for some reason I found my car being wrenched on by a Wal Mart monkey then well ... different story.

I think the push back mostly comes from guys that have wrenched on stuff for a large portion of their lives, and know how to do things correctly. And maybe we usually assume that we're talking to gentlemen of similar ilk.

I'm not upset at all.

 

The issues discussed and deduced are:

"Hand torque" is better and quicker than" measured torque".

There is no way to quantify hand torque--using your hand to tighten a fastener or oil filter.(But good mechanics know what the proper torque is for a given application.) But it causes no issues. Experienced mechanic know this. Inexperienced and lesser mechanics and engineers and shop manuals don't to know this fact.

Torque is what we apply--no matter the means. There is no way to judge quantitatively anything else involved: sticktion,temperature expansion differentials, ect--other than Mechanic's Feel". Even though the Shop Manual makes an effort to quantitative it using the torque specifications.

Sticktion can't be quantified and can't be dealt with. It can be inferred by torque applied--but is subjected to change when subjected to heat cycles.


So--if one doesn't trust "Mechanic's Feel" when torquing/tightening--he isn't experienced and isn't trusting of himself. And is subjecting himself to lengthy argument.

Yeah--I think I finally got it!

And I am not upset neither !

And I do understand "torque to yield" head bolts-- and "angle gages"