Active Handling Dangerous
05-22-2017, 07:53 PM
#21
As a precaution after reading above threads I cut out the ground connectors on the frame rails on both sides of the engine and soldered the wires to washers.
This was brain fart engineering that
only had 20k miles and the green was already starting to form.
This was brain fart engineering that
only had 20k miles and the green was already starting to form.
Last edited by StrangelovesM6Vert; 05-22-2017 at 07:54 PM.
05-22-2017, 08:00 PM
#22
Melting Slicks
Recalls only happen for safety issues when there are bodies piling up in the morgue. Sad but true.
At least the early cars do not have AH, so no worries on that front.
An analog C5 would be nice, as ALL the problems I have had with mine over an almost 20 year ownership have been caused by electronics and/or sensors. BUT digital is cheaper, and the manufacturers can add all kinds of "you never knew you needed this" features that cost them almost nothing, but add big $$$ to the sticker.
A proper oil pressure gauge would be a good start.
BTW, I ran into this buying a new "hers and sometimes his" car last month - all the cars on the lot were loaded with gizmos. I told the sales guy I wanted certain features but not others (mostly so called safety features), and after a lot of discussion they came back with, "If you don't have to pay for those features, can we do a deal?"
So, we have the car, it's a great car, but most of the extra stuff - lane keeping, etc. - is turned off, as it is far too intrusive. I really don't need a warning beep almost every time I change lanes, especially when threading through heavy traffic.
At least the early cars do not have AH, so no worries on that front.
An analog C5 would be nice, as ALL the problems I have had with mine over an almost 20 year ownership have been caused by electronics and/or sensors. BUT digital is cheaper, and the manufacturers can add all kinds of "you never knew you needed this" features that cost them almost nothing, but add big $$$ to the sticker.
A proper oil pressure gauge would be a good start.
BTW, I ran into this buying a new "hers and sometimes his" car last month - all the cars on the lot were loaded with gizmos. I told the sales guy I wanted certain features but not others (mostly so called safety features), and after a lot of discussion they came back with, "If you don't have to pay for those features, can we do a deal?"
So, we have the car, it's a great car, but most of the extra stuff - lane keeping, etc. - is turned off, as it is far too intrusive. I really don't need a warning beep almost every time I change lanes, especially when threading through heavy traffic.
Last edited by jackthelad; 05-22-2017 at 08:13 PM.
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friou (05-23-2017)
05-22-2017, 08:58 PM
#23
So it seems like the best solution to avoid all these shenanigans is to simply unplug the SWPS. 
If your SWPS is working fine with no issues whatsoever, and you decide to unplug it to prevent a future issue, will the steering still function "normally"? What are the consequences of unplugging a perfectly functioning SWPS?
If your SWPS is working fine with no issues whatsoever, and you decide to unplug it to prevent a future issue, will the steering still function "normally"? What are the consequences of unplugging a perfectly functioning SWPS?
05-22-2017, 09:07 PM
#24
It also seems to be very poorly documented from a government safety perspective (as opposed to a "real world" perspective). This problem isn't easy to document or replicate, meaning it's tough to provide conclusive evidence of a serious problem. Meaning it's tough to gather the necessary data to have an agency request and/or force a recall.
2.) These cars are all 13-20 years old. Usually by that age, unless there is something plainly obvious (for example--car explodes when rear-ended like a Pinto), recalls are pretty much non-existent. It sort of becomes "drive at your own risk" as the safety features and design aren't necessarily considered "applicable" to modern standards. So recalls pretty much don't happen on cars this old.
On a personal level, I feel GM should be responsible for ensuring the cars are safe, but my feelings mean squat in a court of law.
05-22-2017, 09:20 PM
#25
Melting Slicks
So it seems like the best solution to avoid all these shenanigans is to simply unplug the SWPS.
If your SWPS is working fine with no issues whatsoever, and you decide to unplug it to prevent a future issue, will the steering still function "normally"? What are the consequences of unplugging a perfectly functioning SWPS?
If your SWPS is working fine with no issues whatsoever, and you decide to unplug it to prevent a future issue, will the steering still function "normally"? What are the consequences of unplugging a perfectly functioning SWPS?
If you disconnect the steering position sensor, you effectively kill the Active Handling assist system. That's it...nothing else happens.
Last edited by Quickshift_C5; 05-22-2017 at 09:20 PM.
05-22-2017, 09:30 PM
#26
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It has no affect on your steering. The sensor only looks at the steering rotation and sends that data to the computer to compare in real time with information from other sensor inputs.
If you disconnect the steering position sensor, you effectively kill the Active Handling assist system. That's it...nothing else happens.
If you disconnect the steering position sensor, you effectively kill the Active Handling assist system. That's it...nothing else happens.
My 98 does not have AH, but it still has a SWPS.
05-22-2017, 11:07 PM
#27
So if you disconnect the SWPS, and Magnasteer goes into maximum assist mode, how does that effect the steering system of the car? In other words, disconnecting the SWPS will therefore have what consequences on steering due to Magnasteer?
05-28-2017, 02:24 PM
#29
Pro
Was driving on I10 this afternoon smooth and straight. All of a sudden brakes start doing crazy stuff nearly making me swerve into off the road. Active Handling lights up in DIC. Then Low Trac warning lights and Service Active Handling lights in DIC. Code show C1286H - A malfunction of steering wheel speed sensor. I disconnected the sensor until I can get it replaced. This is a "Safety Feature" I could easily do without! 
05-28-2017, 02:43 PM
#30
ive got a module installed that keeps mine off on start up for that very reason. Stupid and dangerous. If it malfunctions, it should just shut the system down, not apply one frt. brake at random. Its not for me and I can live without it. You still have ABS with traction control turned off.
05-28-2017, 03:59 PM
#31
Some less than completely accurate information above.
The SWPS does affect the Magnasteer in the C5 and disconnecting the SWPS does NOT put Magnasteer into maximum assist mode.
Here is the "Variable Effort Steering" description from a 2004 shop manual. As you can see in the description when NO CURRENT flows to the Magnasteer (which is what would happen if the SWPS were disconnected) the steering effort is ONLY assisted by the hydraulics of the PS system. So the car might be harder to steer at low speeds (parking etc) and have a "light " feel at higher speed than when Magnasteer is working properly:
Attachment 48098091
The operation of Magnasteer on early year cars without Active Handling is a little simpler in that they do not have the other inputs that cars with AH have. But otherwise the impact of no SWPS is that the steering at low speeds may be a bit harder and at higher speed a bit lighter than when Magnasteer is properly functioning.
The SWPS does affect the Magnasteer in the C5 and disconnecting the SWPS does NOT put Magnasteer into maximum assist mode.
Here is the "Variable Effort Steering" description from a 2004 shop manual. As you can see in the description when NO CURRENT flows to the Magnasteer (which is what would happen if the SWPS were disconnected) the steering effort is ONLY assisted by the hydraulics of the PS system. So the car might be harder to steer at low speeds (parking etc) and have a "light " feel at higher speed than when Magnasteer is working properly:
Attachment 48098091
The operation of Magnasteer on early year cars without Active Handling is a little simpler in that they do not have the other inputs that cars with AH have. But otherwise the impact of no SWPS is that the steering at low speeds may be a bit harder and at higher speed a bit lighter than when Magnasteer is properly functioning.
Based on that, seems like if you own a 1997-2000 C5 with AH, and SWPS breaks, if you cannot find a replacement, your best bet is just disconnecting the SWPS.
While the steering may not be as "crisp", it seems like any issues from AH "acting up" are fully eliminated, so at least the car won't start acting "wonky" or "unpredictable". Meaning it's fully safe to drive even with a broken SWPS.
05-30-2017, 01:16 PM
#32
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Some less than completely accurate information above.
The SWPS does affect the Magnasteer in the C5 and disconnecting the SWPS does NOT put Magnasteer into maximum assist mode.
Here is the "Variable Effort Steering" description from a 2004 shop manual. As you can see in the description when NO CURRENT flows to the Magnasteer (which is what would happen if the SWPS were disconnected) the steering effort is ONLY assisted by the hydraulics of the PS system. So the car might be harder to steer at low speeds (parking etc) and have a "light " feel at higher speed than when Magnasteer is working properly:
The operation of Magnasteer on early year cars without Active Handling is a little simpler in that they do not have the other inputs that cars with AH have. But otherwise the impact of no SWPS is that the steering at low speeds may be a bit harder and at higher speed a bit lighter than when Magnasteer is properly functioning.
The SWPS does affect the Magnasteer in the C5 and disconnecting the SWPS does NOT put Magnasteer into maximum assist mode.
Here is the "Variable Effort Steering" description from a 2004 shop manual. As you can see in the description when NO CURRENT flows to the Magnasteer (which is what would happen if the SWPS were disconnected) the steering effort is ONLY assisted by the hydraulics of the PS system. So the car might be harder to steer at low speeds (parking etc) and have a "light " feel at higher speed than when Magnasteer is working properly:
The operation of Magnasteer on early year cars without Active Handling is a little simpler in that they do not have the other inputs that cars with AH have. But otherwise the impact of no SWPS is that the steering at low speeds may be a bit harder and at higher speed a bit lighter than when Magnasteer is properly functioning.
I wonder how the '04 system differs from the '98 system. I thought I read somewhere that Magnasteer applies variable amounts of resistance to the hydraulic system, from none at low speed to more at high speed. Hence, from the drivers point of view, I thought it went into maximum assist (Magnasteer applying no resistance at any speed). I didn't know it adds assist at low speed.
My '98 (no active handling) intermittently throws a 1281 code, which from what I've read disables Magnasteer. However I haven't noticed any change in steering effort, so I don't know what the SWPS does in my car. Apparently it isn't very critical.
05-31-2017, 11:10 AM
#33
Pro
So it seems like the best solution to avoid all these shenanigans is to simply unplug the SWPS.
If your SWPS is working fine with no issues whatsoever, and you decide to unplug it to prevent a future issue, will the steering still function "normally"? What are the consequences of unplugging a perfectly functioning SWPS?
If your SWPS is working fine with no issues whatsoever, and you decide to unplug it to prevent a future issue, will the steering still function "normally"? What are the consequences of unplugging a perfectly functioning SWPS?
06-01-2017, 04:29 AM
#34
Safety Car
LOLOLOL
06-01-2017, 03:43 PM
#36
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CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
SIMPLE FIX... If the Steering Wheel Position Sensor (SWPS) is bad/ giving you trouble,,,,,, REPLACE IT.
Our C5 AH system is MUCH MORE RELIABLE than the C6 system!!!
The C6 system has WRECKED a LOT more cars and STILL,,, NO GM resolution. The installed a connector COMB that puts more pressure on the SWPS connector pins. Helped but did NOT fully resolve the issue!
Our C5 AH system is MUCH MORE RELIABLE than the C6 system!!!
The C6 system has WRECKED a LOT more cars and STILL,,, NO GM resolution. The installed a connector COMB that puts more pressure on the SWPS connector pins. Helped but did NOT fully resolve the issue!
06-01-2017, 03:56 PM
#37
SIMPLE FIX... If the Steering Wheel Position Sensor (SWPS) is bad/ giving you trouble,,,,,, REPLACE IT.
Our C5 AH system is MUCH MORE RELIABLE than the C6 system!!!
The C6 system has WRECKED a LOT more cars and STILL,,, NO GM resolution. The installed a connector COMB that puts more pressure on the SWPS connector pins. Helped but did NOT fully resolve the issue!
Our C5 AH system is MUCH MORE RELIABLE than the C6 system!!!
The C6 system has WRECKED a LOT more cars and STILL,,, NO GM resolution. The installed a connector COMB that puts more pressure on the SWPS connector pins. Helped but did NOT fully resolve the issue!
Last edited by StrangelovesM6Vert; 06-01-2017 at 03:58 PM.