Don't think a 789 rwhp supra is cheap, if it was they would be outthere a dime a dozen. To run that fast, no matter the power plant you choose you need over 20K, and sometimes over 30K. Eventhough supras have stock bottom ends, they do have lots of $$ in bolt ons. Bolt ons for supras is not like bolts ons for vettes (read exhaust and intake).
No matter what you have in the rear wheels you will need a trap speed in the 140's to be able to own 99% of the fast supras out there.
To me a winner combiantion is a good solid stroker motor with a nice 250 shot in a dual stage. Supras need about 100 rwhp more when at this level of power to run similar to the vette, in my opinion, because of the power curve and the Nitrous effect on it.
I've driven and raced fast supras, what i don't like about them is the way the power comes in (read turbo lag), you get on them, you get nothing, and all of the sudden All comes in, but they are incredible cars and stout motors to handle bondo power.. they do break also, although we dont hear about it on the net, and are very temperamental, but potential they got..lots of it!
I don't know how much money you got in your mods, but that supra if truly pushing over 780 rwhp , probably has over 20G's in parts and labor, maybe more.. there is no Free lunch!



[Modified by xsmph, 8:04 AM 12/18/2002]

 

I talked to a local shop today and they informed me that I can have a t88 kit for around $4400, exhaust depends on the company 1100 or so, there fuel kit is 2100, clutch 600, gauges roughly 6-700, standalone anywhere from 1400-4500 (I think I'll go with the 1400) and the installation is roughly 2200 including tuning (they have there own dyno). So these figures are nowhere near 20, 000 closer to 12, 000 which is reasonable considering I'll have a 800hp car. If I can sell the parts of my car then I can come close to breaking even.

 

Ahh another victim of the modding fever is born. Here are a few real numbers from some one who has "been there - done that". First, $4,400 is probably for the turbo alone. Here are a few additional details from my recollection (had a 94 SupraTT). First, you will need a large FMIC ($1,500-$2,200), a good BOV ($250), a reliable wastegate ($500), various 'n sundry plumbing and fab services $1,000, the new clutch installed will be more like $1,000. Much of the hidden cost of modding to high boost involves tuning on top of the initial cost of the computer (which is more like the $4,500 estimate if you opt for the best control systems like the Haltech E6K or similar). Plan to spend another $2,000 on tuning and dyno time. Supra motors are tough, but they cannot overcome ham-fisted tuners and people who cut corners, so you need to budget for the best and most flexible computer, and the best tuning your money can buy. Because otherwise, at those boost levels, you WILL melt the motor, which will result in death threats from others in the 'dawg community ;)

In addition to all of this, budget $5,000 in suspension/wheel upgrades needed to handle the power and make the car competitive in handling and $3,000 for the brake upgrade needed to handle all that power. Add another $1,500 minimum in safety upgrades if you plan to run at the strip.

All in all, this adds up to another $20K in costs to produce a well-done t-88 Supra, in addition to the $12K you identified. I would say you could get away with spending $20K MINIMUM in mods to get a decent-running example if you cut corners here and there. Add to that the $28K you will spend on a nice used TT, and you are looking at $48K minimum investment...and more like $60K for a really nice result. The last thing you want is to under-budget and wind up having to drop the project part-way thru. All you have at that point is a worthless pile of junk that some guy will buy for 30 cents on your dollar. Prepare to have the car out of commission for months.

Once you have spent all this money, you will have a unique and very fast car with a lot of your time invested. Which means you will freak out every time you park it somewhere, that it might get dinged. If some lady in a Ford Expedition T-bones your car and crumples it at an intersection, your insurance company will not reimburse you a dime for your mods. In fact, you will have to buy the wreck back to even pull the mods off (assuming they survived the crash). You will have to "arrange" to get the car to pass smog. You will have no warranty. You will always be concerned whether you have race gas in the tank that day and how much boost you can run. And, inevitably, no matter what you do, you will land on someone faster who will blow your doors off. And you will probably never sell the car for anywhere close to what you put into it (both in terms of time and money). That is why drivers of heavily modded cars get VERY emotional about their cars (what we "normal" drivers interpret as "Supra attitude".)

Personally, I'd keep that Z06 and slap some gears on it (that would take car of your 4-car loss @150+), but that's just me. Just thought I'd give you the perspective from the other side, having spent money and time there.


[Modified by TTRotary, 6:16 PM 12/18/2002]

 

No, actually the t88 is the complete kit wastgate included as well as he additional plumbing. I did forget to mention the front mount which is an additional 1300 from Hks. As far as the suspension, nothing a set of Coilovers couldn't cure add another 1500. Price really isn't a factor for me. I looked on ebay today I saw one for 18,000 for a 94 six speed ment condition never been wrecked and has 84, 000 miles on it. And as far as the 4 car loss, gears I don't think would have made that big of a difference 300 more hp is what I need.

 

Supra and corvettes are 2 different animals. If your talking about the drag strip its kinda of a no brianer. Most people know that a good driver can take a basically stock Z06 into high 11 sec territory pretty easy. Now getting a Supra to run 11.6s-7s is another story. I have seen guys here with Single turbos(650+RWHP) and ET streets struggle to break 11.9 @ 134+ traps. Their biggest problem is the heavy curb weight makes them harder to get moving. My corvette will cut 1.6 60's on BFG drag radials like they are going out of style. Now take those same tires and put them on a 6 speed Supra and see how many people cut 1.9s to 2.2s. If you race a single turbo supra from a Roll you better know what your getting into before you race. The same supra I was talking about above (11.9s @ 135) will be a close race for my corvette but hey I am game. :yesnod:
Phillip

 

Actually the prices he listed are pretty high.

Greddy T88 turbo kit(this is a complete kit), 3810.50 http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/

Apexi N1 exhaust, 412.47 http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/

Front mount, I bought mine( greddy 3 row fully polished) for 1300 from http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/

used vpc, 800

Apexi fuel computer, 319 http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/

fuel system 1750 http://www.garageadvance.com/

clutch kit, 729 http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/

FJO wide band 02 sensor kit( no dyno need to tune your car), 748 http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com

This is all comes out to be about $9600. As for installing and tuning, I would drive down to auto tuner in orlando and have larry install and tune for a price you would not believe. If fact, when I started modding my vette this is who will be working on it.

Bud

[Modified by dbhajek, 1:35 AM 12/19/2002]


[Modified by dbhajek, 1:36 AM 12/19/2002]

 

Whoa! Hold on there man! Time to pull the :bs flag!

Your comment is based on only one measure of performance: Straight line acceleration. That's not "all out performance." All out performance includes handling, braking, balance, and the subjective 'feel' of a sports car. Yeah, a stock Z06 can get toasted by a BPU+ or better Supra in a drag war, but take it on a road course and its a whole other story. It takes a whole crap load of mods and money to get a Supra to outhandle and out brake a stock Z06, mostly because of its weight. And nothing is going to overcome its brutal on/off power nature, especially with the big single turbo cars, which can be a real handful to drive.

And I won't even get into the various turbo, SC, and 427 kits that can make a Z06 a real force to be reckoned with on a dragstrip, if price isn't a concern.

If all you want to do is hurl yourself down the quater mile as quickly as possible, you're better off with a Mustang, F-body, or an old big block Nova, Chevelle, Camaro, etc. They can all be built to blow the doors off a Supra or a Z06 in a straight line for far less money than a new Z06 or even an 800hp Supra.

 

I just looked at a stock supra stats. For comparison through the slalom the supra pulled .98g's which is right up there with the Z06. I've talked to a couple of people who are familar with these cars and they also said it handles right up there with the Z06 despite the weight differences. Let me mind u that I am also supercharged, having a 422 stroker motor would have helped but then what would have I been pushing 700 r so hp crank would this have allowed me to pull him I dought it. How much is a 422 stroker? Fifteen thousand, is it really worth it when they can do it from a 3.0 liter. Well I should decide in a couple of days or at the first of the year what I am going to do so keep coming with the post. Let me know some insite on how you all feel should I r shouldn't I.

 

Sounds like you would be happier with a Supra.

 

Procharger one thing to consider. You will not get 600+ at the wheels on regular 93 pump gas with the supra. This is one thing I dont like about my supra. Every time I go to the track with it a have to put race gas in.

Bud

 

I agree with rbartick.............it sounds as if you have already made upyour mind. It also sounds like you wanna be king of the road. If money is no object, go LPE TT. Very streetable and very fast in any venue.....and a hell of alot better looking than a Supra :jester :p:

 

Howdy Folks -

First, "procharger", if it's performance you're after, and money is no object, then just drop another $10K-20K into your current ride, and I'm sure you'll be at the top of the performance "food chain". Or pick up a GenII Viper, and do a topend, with forced induction, and you'll have more power than you can ever hope to get to the ground.

To be completely honest (and I apologize in advance if I'm in error), it sounds like you fabricated the story and your car to come on to a Vette board and hype the Supra (pretty standard car forum technique). Again, if you want to dominate the street, a built LS1/LS6 stoker with forced induction is pretty hard to top.

FWIW, the figure of $10.5-11K for a complete single turbo is closer to what it will run you, minus the install/tuning. A noticable price increase for any of the newer ITS GT turbos (dual BB). $4K for kit (turbo, piping, wastegate, etc.), $1.5K for fuel, $1.5K IC, $2.5K Electronics/Gauges and $1K for a clutch upgrade. Brakes are fine stock for all but the most extreme applications (typical fluid/pad upgrade we all need). The suspenion is a little soft, especially on later models - an inexpensive shock/spring upgrade is fine vs. a hardcore coilover system, which IMHO, is far more than you need on the street.

The Z06 is an amazing package bone stock, and simply unbeatable if you factor in the price - as far as performance goes. I owned a 99 C5 (as well as 2 C4's) and enjoyed them - but the extra enjoyment I get from owning my current ride, whether it's from the exclusivity, the fun of show exposure or whatever other intangible was not there for me in the C5. I *enjoy* the ownership experience of my Supra - I did not pursue this car purely from a performance standpoint, since we all know there were probably cheaper options, or money not withstanding, higher performance options. If I had wanted to keep my Vette, it would be 700+ HP right now. I wanted a Supra as a starting point, also knowing it is a reasonably competent performance platform. I guess my point (heheh, do I have a point?) is don't get caught up pursuing the "best" platform - find what you like and start from there (god help you if like Yugos....) There are dozens of American, Japanese, German, etc., cars that you can drop the money on, and have a solid, all around performer that's faster than 99% of the cars you'll encounter.

FYI to the poster about pump gas performance (I think another Supra owner) - I've been seeing 550+ at the rear wheels on 93 :D (Which is still more than the tires can handle).

One final thing (this post is like War and Peace...) anyone who wants to deal with an OUTSTANDING mechanic, who runs an excellent shop, and will give you a great deal, do what the man said and contact Larry @ Autotuner (www.autotuner.org) in Orlando, FL.

Take care -

 

Hi Chris,

PM me details on your car. I have a friend that may be interested. He told me he is dumping his SUV to get a sports car, and he wants something fast. There are soooo few good sports cars on today's market, and he does like the Supra . . .

 

Sorry to hear about the loss. Yes, Supras have the distiction of being able to make pretty ridiculous power with the stock shortblock, since it based on a inline 6 truck motor...

As for which is better. I guess, as they say that is subjective. Are Supras fast. Yes. Here is a 905 HP Supra for sale for $75K

Stock engine with upgraded cams, large single dual BB turbo, AEM fuel management, and the usual front mount and exhaust mods with dual intank Walbros...... 905rwhp. The guy has run a 10.1@142mph (6speed)

He has run 146mph in the 1/4 before.

Video at the drags: http://homepage.mac.com/rdwoon/Ryan10.1pass.mov

Dyno graph..... http://store5.yimg.com/I/wotmstore_1717_5230

Specs on the car: http://store.yahoo.net/wotmstore/19sinturtoys.html


I have seen races between a Henessy 650R Viper on Spray, an MTI 422 on Spray, and a Supra with a big single Converison from a roll on race on the beltway. The 422 cleaned house... Keep in mind that the 422 makes around 500 on motor take into account the fact that it has a nice FAT torque curve not some "ski jump" dyno chart. Add to that a 200HP wet kit. On MTI dyno a kit like this made over 700 RWHP and more than 800 Lb/Ft tq.

Sure, I will agree that a big single Supra is mean. I also agree that many of the BPU++ cars are really mean also. But, I guess that is the same argument the at you get into with folks about H/C cars or H/C/Stroker cars vs XXX.

Personally if I am going to put a T88 on anything it is going to be my 87GN. Anyhow, keeping up with the Jones can get expensive. The old saying is "Speed is a matter of money, how fast can you afford to go?" Just keep in mind that a nice big fat HP/TQ curve is going to be faster than one that is high but narrow and peaky...


[Modified by J-Rod, 9:25 AM 12/19/2002]

 

There will always be a faster car out there. Next time it may be a '70 Super Bee on the way to the track with a Hemi and 588 gears. You need to measure the performance of your car where you drive it the most. The Hemi, if it is set up right , will likely walk you but only to 120. It will not turn or stop but it will do what the owner wants, blistering 1/4 miles. Cars can be hard to enjoy if you don't realistically understand what you want. It isn't realistic to want to be the fastest car on the street, it is unhealthy and expensive. Buying a Supra will not solve the problem as rwhp is a poor measure of speed without a driver and suspension to support it. Keep the Vette it is a very fast car. Next time race him from a standing start and see what happens.

 

J-Rod, good examples.

Here is another. SW had both a Vette and Supra that he was modifying to be as fast as could be. Before he put them both up for sale, I think he ultimately ended up with the Vette running slightly faster times in the quarter, with the Supra pulling through the quarter about 8 MPH faster. Which do you prefer? I would personally rather win the race than trap out higher. To me, it is like the NBA. I would rather score less points per game on a team that wins the championship, then to lead the league in scoring, but never take home the trophy.


[Modified by bb, 9:34 PM 12/19/2002]

 

Why so many posts about Supras lately?
Are these guys bored??

:troll :troll :troll :troll :troll :troll :troll :troll :troll :troll :troll :troll :troll :troll :troll :troll :troll :troll :troll :troll :troll :troll :troll :troll :troll :troll :troll :troll :troll :troll :troll :troll :troll :troll :troll :troll :troll :troll :troll :troll :troll


[Modified by Yano, 11:36 PM 12/23/2002]

 

You mean skidpad performance, not slalom. Slalom is measured in MPH, skidpad measures in G's. Anyhow, here's the side by side comparison of stats based on mag test results:

/ '02 Z06 / Supra Turbo (MKIV)
0-60: / 4.0 / 5.4
1/4 mile: / 12.4@115MPH / 13.5@107MPH
skidpad / 1.0g / 0.98g
braking 60-0 104ft. / 112ft.
slalom / 70.3MPH / 68.5 MPH

The Supra is no slouch in the handling and braking depts., but my point is its ultimate limits aren't as high as a Z06.

That's not a valid comparison there. There are stroker motors, and then there are stroker motors. The cost can vary considerably. Other things to consider is the power curve and delivery of HP and torque. A supercharged 422 stroker with 700hp is going to feel a lot different than a single turbo Supra motor with the same hp. Namely, the 422 is going to have a lot more lower RPM torque and HP with a more linear and flat power curve. The Supra motor will be a lot more 'peaky' in its power delivery with plenty of lag below 3,000 RPM, followed by a huge burst of power above that. Remember, we're talking big single turbo here to get that power. Finally, don't forget a 700hp Supra will be needing race gas at those power levels, while a supercharged 422 will push 700hp on pump gas if its set up correctly.




[Modified by stingray454, 2:21 PM 12/24/2002]


[Modified by stingray454, 2:22 PM 12/24/2002]

 

I have been running about a dozen track days a year for the last 6 years or so and I have seen ONE Supra. Why is that? There are fast Corvettes, Porsches, and Vipers at every event. Are Supra's drag cars only?

Most of this entire thread is related to straight line accleration as a measure of performance. I don't doubt the big single turbo Supra's have a ton of power, but I'm puzzled as too why nobody runs them on road courses. I'm not saying they can't, more that they don't.

Jim

 

Yeah! Let's see some Supras on a curvy track, drag racin' is hard on specific parts, but road racin' is hard on everything!