Why no C5 throttle controller/booster?
Safety Car
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 3,680
Likes: 1,040
The throttle response..... my 911, with the 200 plus thousand miles I put on it over time had "instant" throttle esponse... unlike the C5 which requires more mashing of the throttle, more foot, for the same power to the wheels... Explain that.... As a driver of each of these two cars I MUST command my throttle foot differently... Less ankle rotation, on the mash, with the 911... More ankle rotation mashing a C5... And I'm still unclear why. Come on man.!
Safety Car
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 3,680
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Popular misnomer is it will add HP/TQ to the overall #'s. Not designed for that. Because it's for PART throttle openings. NOT WOT.
I know people get stuck on old "just floor it" mentality but think like the DBW throttle is being "floored" or pulled with a big rubber band. So dumbed down; what a signal amplifier does is shorten up that elastic allowing you a fatter throttle opening sooner. Won't give you 110-120% just make it happen quicker and (this is where I know I'm gonna lose the George Bush, A.D.D crowd) a larger or fatter "PART" throttle opening. Big, big point Part throttle. Faster and fatter. THEN if you keep or increase the throttle opening the ECU catches up with the enhanced signal and they blend together. It's the SPEED it opens and gives a fatter PART throttle opening that makes it feel like you got a little extra sumpn'-sumpn' there than you did before.
I know some find it witchcraft but fellas it does make your car feel like it's got more grunt. It's like poking that ol cow with a cattle prod. It will make Bessy move faster out of the gate ( meaning Part throttle tip in) than she did normally BUT, NO I doubt your going to turn a faster 1/4 mi. Signal amplifiers are not adjusting the timing or fuel tables so there is no bump to the high end peak #'s.
So if you like the punch it- wait wah feeling don't bother. You won't know what your missing but think about it.
I know people get stuck on old "just floor it" mentality but think like the DBW throttle is being "floored" or pulled with a big rubber band. So dumbed down; what a signal amplifier does is shorten up that elastic allowing you a fatter throttle opening sooner. Won't give you 110-120% just make it happen quicker and (this is where I know I'm gonna lose the George Bush, A.D.D crowd) a larger or fatter "PART" throttle opening. Big, big point Part throttle. Faster and fatter. THEN if you keep or increase the throttle opening the ECU catches up with the enhanced signal and they blend together. It's the SPEED it opens and gives a fatter PART throttle opening that makes it feel like you got a little extra sumpn'-sumpn' there than you did before.
I know some find it witchcraft but fellas it does make your car feel like it's got more grunt. It's like poking that ol cow with a cattle prod. It will make Bessy move faster out of the gate ( meaning Part throttle tip in) than she did normally BUT, NO I doubt your going to turn a faster 1/4 mi. Signal amplifiers are not adjusting the timing or fuel tables so there is no bump to the high end peak #'s.
So if you like the punch it- wait wah feeling don't bother. You won't know what your missing but think about it.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2017
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From: Virginia
2021 C5 of the Year Finalist - Modified
St. Jude Donor '21-'22
In case it isn't, brick your computer means causing a fatal malfunction to the ECU so that it will no longer function, and cannot be repaired.
The MAF is the Mass Air Flow sensor. The ECU uses readings from the MAF to determine the correct amount of fuel to inject into the cylinders to get the correct air/fuel mixture. Sometimes oil and other contaminants can build up on the MAF and cause the sensor to take inaccurate readings. This leads to the wrong amount of fuel being injected into the cylinders. In such an instance one would need to clean the MAF to resolve the issue.
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,461
Likes: 378
From: Bellinum Wa
Man Explaining How A Signal Amplifier Works
The C5 is great when it hits like mid throttle but is lazy from lower part throttle tip ins
Safety Car
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 3,680
Likes: 1,040
https://youtu.be/OM3Z_Kskl_U
Arlen a 996 or a 997 rev pretty freely all by itself but I get what you mean. The Mercedes R230 we have now will spin the tires in 2nd gear and rev a lot quicker with a Sp#$#$&@@@er. I couldn't even get a chirp in stock trim.
The C5 is great when it hits like mid throttle but is lazy from lower part throttle tip ins
Arlen a 996 or a 997 rev pretty freely all by itself but I get what you mean. The Mercedes R230 we have now will spin the tires in 2nd gear and rev a lot quicker with a Sp#$#$&@@@er. I couldn't even get a chirp in stock trim.
The C5 is great when it hits like mid throttle but is lazy from lower part throttle tip ins
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,461
Likes: 378
From: Bellinum Wa
Research is not very productive. so far there's a few ECU remaps but no owner installed devices most systems use. I'm still looking
https://www.efilive.com/ml
https://www.corvettes-of-westchester.com/contactus.html
https://www.corvettes-of-westchester...ts/cowbooster/
I'm looking into handheld tuners which could tune and add a DBW throttle enhancer
https://www.diablosport.com/camaro-corvette-tuning/
https://www.efilive.com/ml
https://www.corvettes-of-westchester.com/contactus.html
https://www.corvettes-of-westchester...ts/cowbooster/
I'm looking into handheld tuners which could tune and add a DBW throttle enhancer
https://www.diablosport.com/camaro-corvette-tuning/
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 12,861
Likes: 4,662
Not sure if this is sarcasm or not...
In case it isn't, brick your computer means causing a fatal malfunction to the ECU so that it will no longer function, and cannot be repaired.
The MAF is the Mass Air Flow sensor. The ECU uses readings from the MAF to determine the correct amount of fuel to inject into the cylinders to get the correct air/fuel mixture. Sometimes oil and other contaminants can build up on the MAF and cause the sensor to take inaccurate readings. This leads to the wrong amount of fuel being injected into the cylinders. In such an instance one would need to clean the MAF to resolve the issue.
In case it isn't, brick your computer means causing a fatal malfunction to the ECU so that it will no longer function, and cannot be repaired.
The MAF is the Mass Air Flow sensor. The ECU uses readings from the MAF to determine the correct amount of fuel to inject into the cylinders to get the correct air/fuel mixture. Sometimes oil and other contaminants can build up on the MAF and cause the sensor to take inaccurate readings. This leads to the wrong amount of fuel being injected into the cylinders. In such an instance one would need to clean the MAF to resolve the issue.
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,461
Likes: 378
From: Bellinum Wa
Honestly I haven't use EFIlive or the HPtuner files to know first hand but sounds like it's possible if you blindly adjust too many levels of the input adjustments for the MAF sensor which calibrates the DBW electric throttle plate. Again maybe someone on the Scan/Tune C5 section could add some validity to this. I did start a thread there not long ago but nothing is conclusive. I mean so far there isn't a simple single procedure thats repeatable for individual cars
I don't even know if Westchester Corvettes is still operating. C.O.W throttle for the C5
This is the thread I started in Scan/Tune on DBW Throttle Speed Increase
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-increase.html
I don't even know if Westchester Corvettes is still operating. C.O.W throttle for the C5
This is the thread I started in Scan/Tune on DBW Throttle Speed Increase
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-increase.html
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Le Mans Master
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2025 Corvette of the Year Finalist - Modified
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St. Jude Donor '09-'10-'11
Yeah if you mess up your phone, computer, or any electronic so that it doesnt function anymore you are essentially turning it into a brick. Hence the term.
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2004
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Drifting
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,461
Likes: 378
From: Bellinum Wa
Maybe the use of the word brick might be a little overhyped. It was only mentioned by someone as secondhand information not as definitive information
As a side note there are positive solutions offered like this quote
Gordy M , 01-20-2022 06:12 AM
CF Senior Member
[img]/forums/images/ranks/2k-3k.gif[/img]
When I used EFILive to tune my car I was able to change the TB decay to a livable time....almost instant throttle control. HPT might also do it but it does take a tuning software. If you have someone do it make sure they do not set it to ) decay as it is unlivable to drive with it like that.
As a side note there are positive solutions offered like this quote
Gordy M , 01-20-2022 06:12 AM
CF Senior Member
[img]/forums/images/ranks/2k-3k.gif[/img]
When I used EFILive to tune my car I was able to change the TB decay to a livable time....almost instant throttle control. HPT might also do it but it does take a tuning software. If you have someone do it make sure they do not set it to ) decay as it is unlivable to drive with it like that.
NCM Lifetime Member
Joined: Aug 2015
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From: Cunningham, TN
2021 Corvette of the Year - Modified
2020 C5 of the Year Winner- Modified
C5 of Year Finalist (appearance mods) 2019
St. Jude Donor '18 thru '26
A few years back, I was talking with a guy at a cruise-in that had a C6 with a throttle controller and he was telling me how much it improved his throttle response. He could adjust it from a controller inside the car. I don't remember now, but I think it was simply plugged into his OBD port.
I looked into throttle controllers afterwards, as I notice a feeling of lag in my throttle response. Someone mentioned "Just floor it", but that isn't the issue here. Yes you can floor it and get WOT, but response or lag is a different issue. It has nothing to do with power, It's just not instantaneous linear response.
I am way over my head here, but as I recall, all of the throttle controller devices available are only compatible for vehicles with a CAN BUS system (C6 and up), and our C5's have a different BUS system called J1850 VPW.
Maybe someone who understands this can explain why there isn't a controller made for the BUS system in our cars, or figure out some type of solution?
Electrical and computer systems are not areas I know very much about.
I looked into throttle controllers afterwards, as I notice a feeling of lag in my throttle response. Someone mentioned "Just floor it", but that isn't the issue here. Yes you can floor it and get WOT, but response or lag is a different issue. It has nothing to do with power, It's just not instantaneous linear response.
I am way over my head here, but as I recall, all of the throttle controller devices available are only compatible for vehicles with a CAN BUS system (C6 and up), and our C5's have a different BUS system called J1850 VPW.
Maybe someone who understands this can explain why there isn't a controller made for the BUS system in our cars, or figure out some type of solution?
Electrical and computer systems are not areas I know very much about.
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,461
Likes: 378
From: Bellinum Wa
There is a disconnect between perception and what’s currently happening with C5’s throttle adjustments to date.
There’s several things available right now but doesn’t seem to be a simple device you attach inline like I use in my Mercedes DBW pedal or the C6 OBD port. If you read the #26 thread though there are real world hacks which claim to work but since I personally haven’t used them can’t say how effective they are; Or if there really is a device that can effectively soup up the signal by installing a plug-in device we just aren’t aware of
Post #26 has examples of DBW solutions available now
There’s several things available right now but doesn’t seem to be a simple device you attach inline like I use in my Mercedes DBW pedal or the C6 OBD port. If you read the #26 thread though there are real world hacks which claim to work but since I personally haven’t used them can’t say how effective they are; Or if there really is a device that can effectively soup up the signal by installing a plug-in device we just aren’t aware of
Post #26 has examples of DBW solutions available now
Safety Car
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 3,680
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Hary you're on to an answer to this (well, my answer at least) now would be the time for a user of COW to come forth with a customer review... Perhaps an actual forum contribution is available? or am I missing something as usual?
NCM Lifetime Member
Joined: Aug 2015
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Likes: 4,286
From: Cunningham, TN
2021 Corvette of the Year - Modified
2020 C5 of the Year Winner- Modified
C5 of Year Finalist (appearance mods) 2019
St. Jude Donor '18 thru '26
I would steer clear of anything Chuck COW related!
Just go to the forum Transaction and Feedback section and read the horror stories!
Just go to the forum Transaction and Feedback section and read the horror stories!
Safety Car
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 3,680
Likes: 1,040
our C5's have a different BUS system called J1850 VPW.
Maybe someone who understands this can explain why there isn't a controller made for the BUS system in our cars, or figure out some type of solution?
Electrical and computer systems are not areas I know very much about.
Maybe someone who understands this can explain why there isn't a controller made for the BUS system in our cars, or figure out some type of solution?
Electrical and computer systems are not areas I know very much about.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2012
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From: Vancouver BC
If you like paying for something right away and after two years your car still runs like c**p then go ahead and use him. I switched to a new local tuner and it was tuned perfectly in half a day, runs incredibly now at 630whp
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,320
Likes: 438
From: Tucson Arizona
Of course there’s a lag time in a DBW throttle. For those who haven’t experienced what a DBW signal amplifier ( there are many on the market AKA pedal commander, pedal monster, sprint booster etc. ) it does make a positive change.
Of course there’s a rubber band effect. The speed and the amount in % the throttle body opens is atrocious and for those who haven’t used one don’t feel bad. The difference is real and it feels much stronger because the ECU is stealing from the entire cars performance. A signal enhancer merely puts back whats the car is truly capable of
So yes a signal enhancer will increase sensitivity while at the same time allowing a greater amount of throttle percentage which will make it rev faster ( I mean it will take less time to react ) while adding some additional air and fuel by opening wider ( instead of a lazy rubber band you get a snap with a larger, higher % throttle opening.
FWIW; I’ve gone down this road years ago fellas. I’ve used a Sprintbooster for over 10yrs. I had 3 separate cars with the present one being a Mercedes R230 V8 7 speed trans
I laugh when guys say there’s no lag; just step on the throttle or harder or you can’t get “More than 100%”. Fact is it’s Not actually 100 % unless you punch the gas and Leave It there. We’ve evolved past that years ago.
Part throttle applications never are what the amount you aim for.
With a signal amplifier It’s the “speed it reaches” 100% and the larger % of PT opening that will leave a smile on your face. Not the brick on the gas pedal philosophy. Nobody drives a car with gas as an on/off switch. It’s the low, part throttle acceleration from a light most people want to improve, not 1/4 mi. Type blasts
Fellas, you forget about speed. You need to wrap your mind around the idea the DBW has already STOLEN the quick reaction your engine truly has. Not only that but the factory ECU claws back the amount the throttle is also slowly opening lesser than it is capable. Meaning it CAN be faster AND It can also open wider.
I laugh like school girl when I punch the throttle and it can spin the tires in 2nd and the shifts happen with more urgency. It NEVER did that before no matter how deep I buried gas it never reacted as fast or hard as it does with a signal amplifier.
Of course there’s a rubber band effect. The speed and the amount in % the throttle body opens is atrocious and for those who haven’t used one don’t feel bad. The difference is real and it feels much stronger because the ECU is stealing from the entire cars performance. A signal enhancer merely puts back whats the car is truly capable of
So yes a signal enhancer will increase sensitivity while at the same time allowing a greater amount of throttle percentage which will make it rev faster ( I mean it will take less time to react ) while adding some additional air and fuel by opening wider ( instead of a lazy rubber band you get a snap with a larger, higher % throttle opening.
FWIW; I’ve gone down this road years ago fellas. I’ve used a Sprintbooster for over 10yrs. I had 3 separate cars with the present one being a Mercedes R230 V8 7 speed trans
I laugh when guys say there’s no lag; just step on the throttle or harder or you can’t get “More than 100%”. Fact is it’s Not actually 100 % unless you punch the gas and Leave It there. We’ve evolved past that years ago.
Part throttle applications never are what the amount you aim for.
With a signal amplifier It’s the “speed it reaches” 100% and the larger % of PT opening that will leave a smile on your face. Not the brick on the gas pedal philosophy. Nobody drives a car with gas as an on/off switch. It’s the low, part throttle acceleration from a light most people want to improve, not 1/4 mi. Type blasts
Fellas, you forget about speed. You need to wrap your mind around the idea the DBW has already STOLEN the quick reaction your engine truly has. Not only that but the factory ECU claws back the amount the throttle is also slowly opening lesser than it is capable. Meaning it CAN be faster AND It can also open wider.
I laugh like school girl when I punch the throttle and it can spin the tires in 2nd and the shifts happen with more urgency. It NEVER did that before no matter how deep I buried gas it never reacted as fast or hard as it does with a signal amplifier.
