I can’t speak for road course, I have read that people who’d do manual shift the A4 on road courses.

I had mentioned to my mechanic that I’d like to take a road trip and he shook his head and said on a trailer only. 🤒

 

I would, but I'd have to replace the DR's in back, and double check my AAA membership.

 

I too was in this same predicament of boredom two years ago. Similar build specs to you with the exception of my engine being forged. Cam specs relative to the BTR Stage 3 (Cammotion custom grind 232/236/113+). I decided to go with an ECS Novi 1500. I wanted to stay on 93 pump without meth.

At the time my car was NA at 418rwhp/390rwtq. With Kooks 1 7/8s and Kooks off-road xpipe. With a 4.10 diff.

I loved the car like that from 2008 to 2020 and 140k miles on the odometer. But boredom started setting in again. Then I went to Island Dragway in September 2020 and blew my diff on my first pass. Swapped my 3.42 Z06 diff back in and the boredom with 3.42s was exacerbated. By spring of 2021 I went FI.

Any regrets? 1) not Supercharging the car sooner.

Lessons learned? Stuff breaks and sh*t happens. More power means weak links will quickly be exposed. So be prepared to upgrade parts that are in fine working order under the current conditions- valve springs, clutch, diff and output shafts, torque tube, eventually the trans.

All things I am at peace with and either already replaced or budgeted for.

 

I was going to do a better clutch for sure and the valve springs I’ll by another cam kit that’s matched and are you still running the 4.10 with the supercharger or 3.42

 

I'm still running that 232/236/113+ and the car runs tip top with the Novi 1500. With the restrictor plate in the car makes a nice amount of RWTQ under the curve. Peak power at the wheels 640/568.

I'm back in the 3.42's but I'm not a fan. Especially around town driving. The 4.10s are my all time favorite gear in the MN6. I ran 4.10s for two decades and 100k+ miles. I'm only on the fence with doing a big gear again because when I get heavy on the throttle I'm blowing through the 3.42s quick. I had to adjust my shift light to accomodate my middle aged reaction times. The 4.10s would likely have me on pins and needles these days.

I've also run 3.90s in another MN6 C5 I had. That car was mostly stock and I felt I should have gone 4.10. So maybe I'll do a 3.90 in the FI build.

 

My BS? If by BS You mean the entire worlds premise for engineering compressor systems , back to school

Its called a law for a reason

 

Ok, go on. We’re listening…

 

Go on what? Thats it. lrn2play.

Recap: Use engineering toolbox to calculate flow rate of centrifugal compressors and learn gas law.
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/g...tems-t_22.html

Do research on how compressor maps may be generated.
https://digitalcommons.calpoly.edu/c...context=aerosp

Use matchbot to relate mathematics to compressor & engine combinations


Theres my compressor mated to my 5.3L using matchbot as an example, I know exactly how much power the engine is capable of producing no matter what is done to the engine, no matter what I do to the heads or cam or intake systems, thus I used the most cost effective and original-like parts possible, OEM LS1 intake, original lifters, low lift cam, weak springs, OEM guides & pushrods, etc... the engine is free and built from garbage, the blower does all the work, The blower doesn't care and is capable of making the same power no matter what is done to the engine.

Adjust parameters such as volumetric efficiency and displacement to get a feel for the results. You don't need to admit anything to me or here, I don't care. Do it for yourself.

 

Well the top fuel guys are making about 12,000 hp on a 500ci engine. Stock heads, cam, etc? All I need is a 14-71 blower on a Cadillac 500ci V8 and I’m in the finals?

 

Thanks for starting to use your brain. Looking for the difference between a race engine and a street engine. Everything I post is related to daily drivers and reliable transportation. Nothing to do with racing. In a racing environment we will probably be tearing down and rebuild the engines frequently, even if they do not fail we still need to go through them and inspect them etc... and they do not need to be serviced for 250,000 or 300,000 miles of daily starting and sitting in traffic for extended periods. Before we turn a single bolt or recommend a single part this should be the first thing that goes through your head: "Is the owner looking for reliability and daily driving or are they racing and frequently adjusting parts over short intervals of time". Thus there is a stark need for differentiating these types of engines in your mind before you start making recommendations to the general population of a forum which may desire daily drivers and not racing vehicles. Some will, some will not.

If we have a race oriented vehicle and are okay with tearing down the engine frequently and constantly re-tuning and adjusting parts for racing, then it may serve to push the boundaries beyond what a stock block can handle thus they will need an aftermarket block and a completely new lineup of parts and more frequent tear downs with reduced reliability. The question becomes, at what point will this be required? What can a factory block handle in racing? This is a critical distinction for novices and professionals alike- It is simple, but commonly overlooked, I will help you see the simplicity in this basic topic so you can help others with their goals,

First, determine the power goals and expectations for a particular engine platform. I frequently setup 2L 3L 5L 6L engines for daily drivers so it is second nature knee jerk response to immediately go for the low lift cams and knowledge of factory block and parts. If the power goal is suited to the stock engine block and makeup, then it should be built as a reliable daily driver using OEM parts, even if the block is used for racing to some extent.
For example, stock 4.8L 2005 Chevrolet truck engine supports 1200rwhp. Here is somebody racing the same 7 seconds 4.8L stock engine for many years successfully.


A golden standard for what the factory head and block 05-07 4.8/5.3/6.0 (notice displacement doesn't matter) will handle with factory internals. The need to develop aftermarket valvetrain components is creeping in around the 800 to 1000rwhp mark but it isn't necessarily for the sake of making additional power- it is adjusting the VE profile of the engine (duration of the camshaft for high RPM) and maintaining valvetrain reliability for high RPM, While keeping factory head ports.

https://www.theturboforums.com/threa...2#post-2042556


This begging the question of power expectations again, lets review. If somebody is looking for sub 1000rwhp the answer is going to be stock engine, stock head ports, stock as possible valvetrain. Reliability is maintained by keeping the mods minimal. A 4.8L engine as that can be 200,000 miles of reliability with a little bit less power and a couple fewer modifications when taken out of the racing environment and setup with typical daily driver components. It is extremely reliable BECAUSE of it's factory internals, not in spite of them. There is no reason to upgrade the block and inside parts until the desire encroaching over 1300rwhp or so for pursuit of particular racing applications which demand such aftermarket blocks and components, which are outside the scope of this discussion and should not be brought up or compared with as it is entirely a different theory for setting up a vehicle and maintaining parts.

 

I agree with just about everything you have said, except 1 important thing, and that is keeping all the internals stock when the 1,300hp level is reached. All stock parts are not created equal. Yes, you can probably use stock heads, and maybe a stock cam, assuming 1,300hp is achievable with a stock cam and enough boost. Some crankshafts are cast stronger than others, some rods are are better than others, some pistons are stronger than others, some main caps are stronger, etc. Sure, there may not be huge differences, but when your into low-mid four figure power, small differences between parts are amplified. Some engines may run for years. Some engines may run for weeks, or even less. There are no perfect parts, especially castings. At that hp level, the tune needs to be spot on, with consistent fuel quality. If I was building a boost engine, the only change to the valvetrain I would make would be stronger pushrods. I would also use forged pistons (not required with perfect tune, and perfect fuel, neither of which exist), like GM uses in the LS9 (for the aforementioned reason). I would go with a quality forged crankshaft (which GM also uses in the LS9), and quality forged rods. The real world doesn't exist in your theoretical 1,300hp build. You are assuming everything is perfect, and there's no such thing. My .02........

 

Lets talk about this. First, that little 4.8 is making hundreds of passes at 1300hp with stock parts. It still runs great to this day. Lets set that aside for a minute.
Next, the cost of that 4.8L engine is about $300. If you can make 500 passes for $300 at 1300hp, how many extra passes do you think a forged internal engine will net for 5k or $10,000 price tag? It could likely be fewer passes because statistically, rebuilt engines are not as reliable as factory engines in general, no matter how much power they produce or what application. It could be a 300hp rebuilt engine with forged pistons and suffer catastrophic failure due to poor machine cleanliness work or failure to properly measure some parts or remove some burr or whatever. Millions of ways to make a mistake when rebuilding an engine.
Next, at $300 per engine, even at only 200 passes per engine, its still two to three times more cost effective to utilize ten stock engines (10*300 = $3000) than a single forged engine for 2000 passes at 1300hp.
Finally, the engine's ability or limitation to withstand 1300hp comes from the block itself- not the parts. The parts can handle far more power than the block. The parts are not the weakest link- the block is. This will go strongly against your assumption that minute differences between as-cast parts and factory internals in general will reveal a weakest link at some level barring reproducible results.

This is where we are.
1. There is a need to avoid engine rebuilds at all costs for daily drivers and reliable vehicles.
2. There are additional concerns when using forged pistons due to piston-wall clearance and warming up issues which are the bane of daily drivers.
3. I am not suggesting a 1300hp stock longblock for use in racing. I am only showing the success of various 1000-1300hp stock engines that are USED for racing to bridge the gap between daily driving and racing applications. That 1300hp racing 4.8L is actually a reliable daily driver engine that is being used for racing purposes, 'abused' by a 2-step and exotic fuels in ways that a daily driver would never be abused.

What I am really suggesting is this. If the block and internals will handle years and hundreds of passes at 1300hp abused by 2-step and exotic fuels reliably with no failure in sight. If this a statistically reproducible result (there are hundreds of examples in similar environments with less protection, i.e. no air filters and poor tuning, which survive).
Then it is entirely conceivable to utilize one of these factory engines at say, 600 to 800rwhp levels, with more typical fuels, minus the abuse of racing and 2-steps and all of that for 200,000 to 300,000 miles of reliability, even with moderate or intermediate tuning. I personally put 50,000 miles on a (200,000 miles) 5.3L at 500-600rwhp over the last 5 years for example with nothing but oil changes. The power doesn't need to be 1300hp and the application doesn't need to be racing; I use those for example and extrapolation, not to say 'here do this'

 

Back to the OP's question.
I have no regrets at all but I'm only at 528 rwhp. It was done before I've purchased the car but I've put over 30K miles of fun on it.
I would have absolutely no doubts about the car's reliability for a cross country trip.
The only reason I haven't supercharged my other 99 is lack of $ (and Bill would come down to haunt me for doing it )

 

Statistics include incompetent engine builders. When the short block is built by competent builders, like us, and are built with equal, or superior to, factory tolerances, there's absolutely no reason to think they'll be any less reliable than the production built engines. DRIVER and USE/ABUSE, are probably the main factors in rebuilt engines not being as reliable as OEM. Many who build/rebuild engines use them to....uh, there fullest potential, lol. As for that 1,300hp 4.8, it is fine......for now. I won't risk my life with a 1,300hp SBE engine. At the speeds a 1,300hp engine can attain in 1/4 mile (or 1/8 mile) racing, if the stock cast crank let's go, or a stock cast piston let's go, or a powdered metallurgy rod lets go at 120-150mph, bathing the car AND track with oil, I don't like my odds of living if I hit an immovable object. I do hope this never happens to you, or anyone else. This discussion reminds me of a different discussion with a coworker of 40+ years. I couldn't see the harm in getting the covid19 vaccine. He argued-vehemently-aginst it. "Tom" retired 2 years ago. This Spring, it'll be 2 years since he caught Covid19, and died within a week. He worked over 45 years, and got 7 weeks of retirement. I like to avoid potential issues, when feasible. To me, both situations are, and were avoidable. I agree with the FI route. I just don't agree with stressing stock parts well beyond the limits they were designed for. 500-600whp? Yes, stock should be fine. 1,300hp? Not for me.......

 

So you don’t know. Could have just said that instead of deflecting. No need to respond with another journal.

My apologies to the OP. I mistakingly thought there might be some relevant info with this exchange.

 

@Toys4Life C5 Is the person you should be talking to. He also has a bunch of youtube videos explaining the install, kit, and power numbers.

 

Maybe he's a multi-vaxxer?

 

Ooo nice try. Actually I am a cancer researcher by day, auto enthusiast by night. I work with mRNA almost everyday and model cancer behaviors by gene products based on mRNA using PCR which is a basic diagnostic tool that all researchers have now. We could design and implemented an mRNA based vaccine when we have the ability to perform clinical trials to bridge the gap between data and results, if (anybody) needed to for some reason. To whit- I would never inject myself or anybody else with mRNA of any kind unless I was absolutely sure, as in 100% (impossible cough*) certain that the intended affect or influence of said mRNA would result with expected self interactions, variant catalysis and downstream products. It is during my Doctor & mechanical engineering that I learned how to utilize statistics and evidence to back my research and which claims will hold water under close Inspection.

Statistics does NOT Need to include engine builders, that is my point. You avoid the machine shop and downtime associated with building an expensive engine and eliminate the millions of potential issues by avoiding a rebuilt engine of any kind. I said already multiple times that I do not condone 1300hp I am not sure why you keep bringing that up. My point is that the engine supports 1300hp for hundreds of passes so it must be good for 700rwhp for example in a daily driving application, which it is, and you agree, and this is extremely useful information. You seem to agree but don't repeat the facts very often. It would be nice if you say exactly what you meant by repeating it to clear up any confusion for the novices. Many modern engines are in fact good to 600-700rwhp from all kinds of sources. For example 1995 Toyota 3L Inline 6 cylinders from the 90's I tuned over 20 years ago 600 to 800rwhp still running today in customer cars after two decades and 200,000 miles. We didn't know back then but the engine block is the deciding factor not the internals. When I saw the similar design strategy enacted in modern 02+ chevrolet V8 engines I realized that they simply copied the Toyota and Nissan designs, the modern 4.8L is simply a replica of the original inline 4 and 6 cylinder engines from Nissan and Toyota of the 90's. All of them from 3L to 6L support an easily 700rwhp daily driver applications and 1200bhp for indeterminable length of time. The failure rates associated with poor tuning and poor engine setup are equal between forged 'built' engines and stock engines, e.g. a stock engine with a bad tune is just as likely to fail as a forged piston engine with a bad tune. The forged piston allows for a couple of decent mistakes in the learning curve but overall the difference between them in a repeated high RPM tuning mishap is negligible.

After thinking for a minute, Actually if we consider internal forces those forged pistons will withstand far more abuse and higher forces, meaning when the engine fails it will be able to launch parts much farther and faster. The stock internals acting like a fuse, blowing apart really easily before real force may be applied. It doesn't seem safer having forged internals abused which fly apart, more likely to launch parts with higher energy input. They also give a false sense of security and less feedback from poor tuning and poor setup, since they withstand more abuse, leading to much more abusive situations and being pressed much harder than they should be. A forged piston should have the same force applied to it as a stock piston in performance applications, the act of forging does not increase or improve the engine's output potential, the block controls that. Forged only allows for the one-off chance mistake which can be noticed and corrected for, assuming we are comparing equal fuel quality and proper methodology for setup conditions.

 

Are you referring to me, about something I don't know? If so, please elaborate. I dont profess to know everything, but believe what I posted is fairly spot on......

 

How can I make it any clearer than when I stated 500-600hp builds should be fine, but I'd not trust a 1,300hp build with SBE components???? It sounded as though you were condoning 1,300hp builds that were reliable with stock components. When stating that 1,300hp stock builds are good for hundreds of passes, it sure as Hell appears you feel the engines are good for that level!! If anyone wants to pursue 1,300hp on a SBE, by all means, your life, your car, go for it. Kingtalon says it'll be good for "hundreds of passes." I'd never do it......