No they aren't, they both got moved. The Boxster S is now in ASTOCK, and the Boxster is in Bstock, where it gets beat up on by the s2000 actually.

There is no point in having different classes for AWD cars. The idea is that if cars can pull similar times, put them in the same class, no matter how they manage it.

 

The main thing killing the Mitsubishi Evo is the california emissions. You need lots of cats on a turbo car. Ditch the cats and you will see huge gains think at least 10% here so 300hp+ without changing anything else. The motor in the Evo is the newest and most revised 4g63. This is the same motor that was in the eclipse/talon's of the 90's. This motor will make 400-500hp crank reliably with just turbo and fuel mods. From what I have seen in the previous generation of EVO's the revised 4g63 will comfortably make 500+ hp as well as long as you make sure your not getting any detonation (meaning this figure will be difficult to acheive on pump gas. The biggest problem with the Talon/Eclipse's of the 90's was the transmision, they were weak and would go through synchro's like they were going out of style. THe evo's tranny however is bullet proof and is far better then what was in the Talon/Eclipse. They use tripple and double cone synchronizes etc so its safe to say that the tranny should be very durable. Mitsubishi is advertising the car as a "Street racing legend" so don't think they don't know people will be modifying them and racing them. The factory turbo is a Mitsubishi 18g which is identical to the "BIg 16g" which is a popular turbo upgrade for the old Eclipse/Talon sometimes you will see people call each turbo under either name. Anyway this turbo will support 25-26 pounds of boost. The engine will handle this no problem but will require higher octane. The current record for an 18g eclipse/talon is 11.684@118.35 so there is definately some very good potential in the evo without swapping turbos. The evo also comes with a pretty beefy fuel system. I think that with intake/exhaust/downpipe/fuel tunning/high octane gas and some added boost this car will run low 12's on street tires all in all probably under $2000 in mods. Slap on a $1000 turbo and some injectors and the car will be a true 11 street car easily atainable on pump gas with the right tunning/turbo. This will take out 99.9% of street compatition simply cause everyone else who makes the power to beat you is RWD and is probably not riding around on the tires to make up for the tremendous awd launch. Also you should consider awd handling, with awd even a mediocore driver can do quite well on the road course and with awd you can floor it mid way through the turn and use awd to pull you out of the corner for tremendous corner exit speed. All in all it is a great performing car that has a lot of potential and will be a formitable apponent to us RWD guys from stop lights. However considering that Z's run 118mph with some basic bolt ons everyone has I don't think you will be loosing any rolling start races unless the guy is on race gas with a bigger turbo. Given the awd, big power potential, huge brembo brakes, reccaro seats etc I really don't think $29,000 is a lot of money to ask for. Hell a freaking fwd n/a Acura RSX is like $22,000. However paying 30K+ out the door for a car that has rice boy association and looks that match a $15,000 rice econobox to the casual observer may be more negative image then most of us could handle for our dollor especially considering used Z's are now available in the low 30's. In my honost opinon there is no better way to shuttle your family around :). Pretty soon the evo/sti will get some fame like it has in all other plces of the world where it resides and even the casual observer will be able to identify it as a performance vehicle. Now as far as the STI/EVO discussion there is no arguing that the STI with the bigger motor makes more bottom end torque and will probably have even more pump gas power potential however from what hte magazines are seeing the handling of the sti is qwerky and nervous compared to the evo and the evo is turning faster track times due to its speed in the corners. In I think it was Car&Driver Rod Millen drove both cars and far prefered the Evo over the STI. I would always pick the car that turns faster over the car that goes faster cause the power can always be made but its hard to make a car handle better when mod for mod one greatly outperforms the other. Also after sitting in both I can tell you that the evo has a much roomier feel both in the front and in the back and being 6'3 I set the seat the way I wanted in the front and hopped in the back and due to the curvature of the recaro seat sides I was able to comfortably place my knees around the seat making for very roomy rear seating. I can tell you that the new STI front end looks good in pictures but in person it really is not attractive especially with the huge hood scoop on the sti which from inside the cabin sticks up like a sore thumb and I can tell you it would drive me CRAZY having to constantly view it from inside the cabin. The STI is far more cramped and the controls are not laid out as well. Also the STI is a boxster 4 vs a inline 4 so maintance on the STI will be MUCH MUCH harder. Considering the EVO is $3000 cheapter it is a no brainer to buy the car that is more roomy, easier to work on, turns faster for the compramise in power which will easly up the sti after just $1000 in mods let alone $3000. Anyways my 2 cents :).

Kal
97 Supra TT 430RWHP

 

Kal,
Nice writeup, I actually read it, but you might want to release a Cliff Note's version for most of the people on this forum. :D

 

Ok, I don't know why this car was included in MT's shoot out, but I assume it was much as the same reason the Lightning was...as a novelty act.

I agree that the Evo turns out respectable numbers and has fair potential. But as far as comparing it to a Z06? No. Look the Z is a purposely built sports car, while the Evo is a 4 door production based sedan. Neither were designed with similar goals and neither were designed to compete against each other.

Not trying to be elitist, but the Z is in a totally different class.

Maybe next we can start comparing a Ford Taurus to a Bentley. I mean a Taurus is less money AND comes with leather too..

-N

 

Wanna talk real world drivability? Dodge Neon SRT4. C&D street start gives it 5.4 seconds in stock form. Chip it to 300/300 hp/tq and you've got some really CHEAP fun. About 10K less than the evo/sti. Yes, it doesn't have AWD, but look on the bright side - it has an autometer boost gauge! Its brakes are equal to the evo and sti. It has equal length half shafts to put the power down pretty well! I know, i know - it is a neon - but the evo and sti are also 'questionably' styled!!

 

Fact5, Are you useing weight distributing hitch? are you useing sway stabilizers? and if so how many, you should use 2. When you go over 26ft, use two sway bars. Your trailor will be dead stable with 2500HD that way, but dully would be better, there just a pain in the azz wide when not towing. Ric

 

Neon is great bang for the buck for 19,000 but it is no all wheel drive. Make any more power and the car will be severly traction limited and just as good a brakes? The Evo and STI have Brembo 4 piston floating calipers mounted on huge ventilated discs.

 

Not in my area.

 

You know, I was just thinking this kind of comment is the same crap you find on the supraforums and mkiv.com. Just 'slap' on a few bolt-ons that cost pocket change, and you'll smoke anything on the street... blah blah blah. Yeah, right :rolleyes:

Then I saw your signature, and it explained everything.

I'm curious as to why you took the time to write all that here, when I highly doubt anyone on this forum will ever buy an Evo? :confused:

 

Oh, so you're one of those people who thinks that only Brembo can make good brakes? :rolleyes: News flash for you: the SRT-4 actually stops faster than the Evo! That's right, the Evo stops from 60-0 in 117 ft. versus 112 ft. for the SRT-4. And the SRT-4 doesn't have Brembos! There's another car that has some of the best braking performance of any production car in the world: the Z06. And it doesn't have Brembos either.

Don't get me wrong, Brembo makes excellent brakes. But just because it doesn't say 'Brembo' on the caliper doesn't mean the brakes aren't as good.

Do you even know what floating calipers are? Ventilated discs? Or do you just copy and paste stuff from advertisements without knowing what it is? You make it sound like those are impressive features. Did you know that MOST cars have floating calipers and ventilated discs? Hardly a feature worth mentioning. Its like saying the car has electronic ignition. Big deal.

 

Don't be so sure. It looks like a very fun daily driver that you can take and park anywhere (including in snow).


:steering:

 

actually the viper now holds the crown for shortest stopping distance. The new viper is def. bad azzz........I seriously doubt an evo would beat the z06 or a viper around the track.

 

that depends if the track is dirt, snow, or pavement

or if its raining

=)

 

Braking under those conditions has more to do with tires than the brakes themselves.

 

I was referring to winning on a track
not braking alone

both cars are AWD when they are braking =)



[Modified by jackmott, 5:02 PM 5/16/2003]

 

Yes 60-0 is hardly a test of brakes more like weight and traction. The neon is lighter so naturally it will brake better with similar tires. Infact many times brake upgrades will increase 60-0 braking distance because it takes longer to bring them up to temp and get that "bite" in. Do 10 back to back 120-0 stops and then you will see which brake is better. And yes I do know the difference between floating and non floating and I accidently stated floating when I meant to say non floating (which is usualy not found on a $30,000 car) and when I say ventilated I mean curved vein rotor design which is also not found on $30,000 cars usualy its just a hollow rotor with holes on the end. Anyway the bottom line is the evo will be fast bang for the buck. I come to this forum cause I love z06's and almost bought one back in december. If I can add a little insight to what is out on the street I will.


[Modified by Kal, 7:01 PM 5/16/2003]


[Modified by Kal, 7:02 PM 5/16/2003]

 

[Modified by DDSLT5, 5:01 PM 5/16/2003]

 

No, I don't think so. Now you're talking about different types of brake pads - street pads are designed to work well cold, and track pads work well when heated up (i.e. on a track), and get better as the heat builds. Very few cars sold to the public for use on a highway will sport pads designed for the track, so this doesn't hold water. The neon brakes better than the evo because it has quality brakes, and it is lighter. PERIOD. Its just a fact - the evo has expensive Brembos and they don't perform quite as well on that car as the cheaper brakes on the Neon - but that's the thing - today's average brakes are kick azz compared to 5 years ago!!

Technology marches on - I've upgraded my Z to Baer Alcon 4 piston calipers with 13.5 inch rotors - spent a fortune - guess what? The stock Z06 outbrakes me by a couple of feet in every respect. Give credit where cedit is due. :seeya

 

To build on this:

If you can lock up your tires on dry pavement from any speed, a brake upgrade will NOT improve your stopping distance. The things that will are:

Less weight
Better tires
Better suspension
Worse aerodynamics (wind resistance actually helps to slow you down from very high speeds)

Upgraded brakes only help if you can't lock up your wheels from any speed or can't modulate the pressure well enough. They also provide much more endurance based on their ability to manage heat much better. So after 10 back to back stops from 100 mph, you'll know the difference. In normal spirited driving, you would probably never be able to see a difference in actual stopping distance.

:cheers:

 

Hey Guys,

You have all been missing the Evo vs STi fun for far too long. We in the UK have had this battle raging for the last 5 years at least.
I own a 2003 Z06, I sold my 2001 STi to help fund buying it.......

I want to buy either an Evo or a Nissan (Infiniti to you guys) Skyline as an additional car to the Z.

The new Evo 8 Q300 (or whatever they call it) has 300BHP just as the Sti does and has a 0-62 of 4.7 secs. So I don't know where your guys got there 6.5 seconds from.

Believe me I know I have driven both, the Subaru will **** all over a Z around a track. On the drag strip by, by Sti. You buy both you can be best on both :lol: