[Z06] Z06 vs. E46 M3 Race
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 5,169
Likes: 6
From: Greenville SC
Re: Z06 vs. E46 M3 Race (rbartick)
No it was not the driver fault....
Yes it was.
Yes it was.
Don't get me wrong. We all make mistakes and the conditions were such that the driver was being tested more severely, but ultimately if you are driving the faster car and don't win, it is your fault.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 25,889
Likes: 7
From: Virginia Beach
CI 3-5-6-7-8 Veteran
Re: Z06 vs. E46 M3 Race (Ryan Bell)
:thumbs: So moderators if my "friends" do the racing and I post vids it's all good, but if I dream about racing I get locked down... :skep:
Instructor
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
From: VA
Re: Z06 vs. E46 M3 Race (stingray454)
I've heard both and they're around the same decible level at WOT, but with a different sound (the M3 obviously sounds like a high-revving 6-cylinder).
The Z06 sounds much louder in the video because it's closer to the camera's microphone than the M3 is.
The Z06 sounds much louder in the video because it's closer to the camera's microphone than the M3 is.
I like how you can't even hear the M3 over the roar of the Z06! :lol: :D
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 27,232
Likes: 5
From: Houston TX
Cruise-In III Veteran
Cruise-In IV Veteran
Re: Z06 vs. E46 M3 Race (ivan111)
Have anybody raced against a MB SL55?
[Modified by Ryan Bell, 7:36 PM 1/9/2004]
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Drifting
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 1,695
Likes: 0
From: Long Island NY
Re: Z06 vs. E46 M3 Race (EOD_M3)
I've heard both and they're around the same decible level at WOT, but with a different sound (the M3 obviously sounds like a high-revving 6-cylinder).
The Z06 sounds much louder in the video because it's closer to the camera's microphone than the M3 is.
The Z06 sounds much louder in the video because it's closer to the camera's microphone than the M3 is.
Dude, I know you're a proud M3 owner and all, but there's no freakin way an M3 is as loud as the Z06 at WOT. I've heard both too, and there's no contest - its not just tone - the Z06 is LOUDER. I have a Z06 with stock exhaust, and where I live, there are TONS of M3's around - I see and hear them all the time. I've also seen and heard M3's at the track and at autocrosses. So I know first hand. There is one M3 in my apartment complex with an aftermarket exhaust which is pretty loud, but its not stock.
Closer to the microphone??? :confused: Watch that video again - near the end of the race, the cars are a quarter of a mile away from the microphone, and all you hear is the roar of the Z06. There is not one point in the race where you can hear the M3 over the Z06, except right at launch you can hear some of the rasp from the M3 for a second.
One of the car magazines publish the sound levels in decibles, but I can't recall which one does that, and I certainly don't have the time to look them all up. But if you do, I guarantee you'll find the Z06 is louder at WOT.
I had an M3 on order for 8 months, so I know quite a bit about the car. :confused:
[Modified by stingray454, 1:49 PM 1/10/2004]
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 4,251
Likes: 7
From: Woodbridge Ontario
Re: Z06 vs. E46 M3 Race (stingray454)
In car, the Z and the M decible level are similar at WOT.
From outside the cars, there is no comparison.
The E46 M3's sound is a higher pitch, and sounds very tinny.
It just seems to get drowned out beside the deep roar of a V8. :D
[Modified by tlaselva, 5:03 PM 1/10/2004]
From outside the cars, there is no comparison.
The E46 M3's sound is a higher pitch, and sounds very tinny.
It just seems to get drowned out beside the deep roar of a V8. :D
[Modified by tlaselva, 5:03 PM 1/10/2004]
Instructor
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
From: VA
Re: Z06 vs. E46 M3 Race (stingray454)
It has nothing to with pride, but thanks.:) No, it's just that at the track (both autocross and 1/4 mile), the Z06 doesn't seem any louder than a M3 at WOT. As TSalva said, it's a different tone. The M3 has a "raspy" sound, and of course the Z06 is very "throaty". Also, I test drove a Millenium Yellow Z a few months ago, and inside it actually seems quieter than my M does at WOT. Regardless, I know the Z is faster.
As far as the video, it looks as though the Z was closer to the camera the entire race..if you know what I mean.:D
An another note, I'm looking to Supercharge my M here in the next 4-5 months. Should have around 460 crank HP when I'm done. I think after that a race against a stock Z06 will be just a tad closer.:cheers:
[Modified by EOD_M3, 10:15 PM 1/10/2004]
As far as the video, it looks as though the Z was closer to the camera the entire race..if you know what I mean.:D
An another note, I'm looking to Supercharge my M here in the next 4-5 months. Should have around 460 crank HP when I'm done. I think after that a race against a stock Z06 will be just a tad closer.:cheers:
I've heard both and they're around the same decible level at WOT, but with a different sound (the M3 obviously sounds like a high-revving 6-cylinder).
The Z06 sounds much louder in the video because it's closer to the camera's microphone than the M3 is.
:skep:
Dude, I know you're a proud M3 owner and all, but there's no freakin way an M3 is as loud as the Z06 at WOT. I've heard both too, and there's no contest - its not just tone - the Z06 is LOUDER. I have a Z06 with stock exhaust, and where I live, there are TONS of M3's around - I see and hear them all the time. I've also seen and heard M3's at the track and at autocrosses. So I know first hand. There is one M3 in my apartment complex with an aftermarket exhaust which is pretty loud, but its not stock.
Closer to the microphone??? :confused: Watch that video again - near the end of the race, the cars are a quarter of a mile away from the microphone, and all you hear is the roar of the Z06. There is not one point in the race where you can hear the M3 over the Z06, except right at launch you can hear some of the rasp from the M3 for a second.
One of the car magazines publish the sound levels in decibles, but I can't recall which one does that, and I certainly don't have the time to look them all up. But if you do, I guarantee you'll find the Z06 is louder at WOT.
I had an M3 on order for 8 months, so I know quite a bit about the car. :confused:
[Modified by stingray454, 1:49 PM 1/10/2004]
The Z06 sounds much louder in the video because it's closer to the camera's microphone than the M3 is.
:skep:
Dude, I know you're a proud M3 owner and all, but there's no freakin way an M3 is as loud as the Z06 at WOT. I've heard both too, and there's no contest - its not just tone - the Z06 is LOUDER. I have a Z06 with stock exhaust, and where I live, there are TONS of M3's around - I see and hear them all the time. I've also seen and heard M3's at the track and at autocrosses. So I know first hand. There is one M3 in my apartment complex with an aftermarket exhaust which is pretty loud, but its not stock.
Closer to the microphone??? :confused: Watch that video again - near the end of the race, the cars are a quarter of a mile away from the microphone, and all you hear is the roar of the Z06. There is not one point in the race where you can hear the M3 over the Z06, except right at launch you can hear some of the rasp from the M3 for a second.
One of the car magazines publish the sound levels in decibles, but I can't recall which one does that, and I certainly don't have the time to look them all up. But if you do, I guarantee you'll find the Z06 is louder at WOT.
I had an M3 on order for 8 months, so I know quite a bit about the car. :confused:
[Modified by stingray454, 1:49 PM 1/10/2004]
[Modified by EOD_M3, 10:15 PM 1/10/2004]
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 12,375
Likes: 406
From: Florida
Re: Z06 vs. E46 M3 Race (EOD_M3)
Having both driven and heard an M3 from outside at WOT, I have to agree its just as loud. The M3 sound is all frenetic metallic mechanical, the Z06 is raspy exhaust roar.
Dude, how are you going to S/C that S54 reliably??? That engine is already at the outside limit of what the connecting rods can handle given the cylinder pressures it generates and the piston speeds under consideration. Obviously, these would not further increase since you are not changing RPM, but further increasing cylinder pressure seems unwise, even if it's only about 5psi as your Hp target suggests.
Dude, how are you going to S/C that S54 reliably??? That engine is already at the outside limit of what the connecting rods can handle given the cylinder pressures it generates and the piston speeds under consideration. Obviously, these would not further increase since you are not changing RPM, but further increasing cylinder pressure seems unwise, even if it's only about 5psi as your Hp target suggests.
Instructor
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
From: VA
Re: Z06 vs. E46 M3 Race (TTRotary)
Actually it's 6-8 psi. Both Dinan and AA Tuning (both are very experienced at S/C'ing BMW's) are coming out with one in the next few months. Both are using the stock 11.5 to 1 compression. AA has already finished theirs and is getting app. 380 at the wheels already (460 crank with 18% D/T loss). More tuning to come. Dinan's will come with a full 50k mile warranty, and is claiming they expect around the same numbers.
The issue with the S54 wasn't with the conecting rods, it was the rod bearings that weren't geting enough oil at *low* RPM's. BMW issued a engine oil pump and bearing recall for cars produced from Oct. 01 to Feb. 02 which pretty much took care of the problem. The S54 has never had issues with it's compression being too high, altbough that was most people incorrectly (and understandably) assumed was the problem with the blown engines.
The issue with the S54 wasn't with the conecting rods, it was the rod bearings that weren't geting enough oil at *low* RPM's. BMW issued a engine oil pump and bearing recall for cars produced from Oct. 01 to Feb. 02 which pretty much took care of the problem. The S54 has never had issues with it's compression being too high, altbough that was most people incorrectly (and understandably) assumed was the problem with the blown engines.
Having both driven and heard an M3 from outside at WOT, I have to agree its just as loud. The M3 sound is all frenetic metallic mechanical, the Z06 is raspy exhaust roar.
Dude, how are you going to S/C that S54 reliably??? That engine is already at the outside limit of what the connecting rods can handle given the cylinder pressures it generates and the piston speeds under consideration. Obviously, these would not further increase since you are not changing RPM, but further increasing cylinder pressure seems unwise, even if it's only about 5psi as your Hp target suggests.
Dude, how are you going to S/C that S54 reliably??? That engine is already at the outside limit of what the connecting rods can handle given the cylinder pressures it generates and the piston speeds under consideration. Obviously, these would not further increase since you are not changing RPM, but further increasing cylinder pressure seems unwise, even if it's only about 5psi as your Hp target suggests.
Drifting
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 1,695
Likes: 0
From: Long Island NY
Re: Z06 vs. E46 M3 Race (EOD_M3)
You gotta be nutz to supercharge an M3. Forced induction on a 11.5 to 1 stock motor is a recipe for disaster. Don't care what boost you run. The only prayer your motor has is if you run race gas ALL THE TIME.
How much is the Dinan kit? If they're offering a 50k warranty on the motor, then it must be BIG bucks - enough to cover an entire replacement motor with some profit left over is my guess.
With the amount of money you'll end up sinking into that thing, wouldn't you just be better off buying an M5? Or better yet, if you want to go fast, get a Z06! :p
How much is the Dinan kit? If they're offering a 50k warranty on the motor, then it must be BIG bucks - enough to cover an entire replacement motor with some profit left over is my guess.
With the amount of money you'll end up sinking into that thing, wouldn't you just be better off buying an M5? Or better yet, if you want to go fast, get a Z06! :p
Instructor
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
From: VA
Re: Z06 vs. E46 M3 Race (stingray454)
The cost will be less than 10k for the Dinan kit, and while they haven't put out an exact number yet, it will probably be closer to 8k from what I'm hearing. When these guys put it out on the market, you can be sure they've (both Dinan and AA) done extensive testing on it to protect themselves. Race gas won;t be needed as all the above companies kits are very streetable.
Regarding the M5, they are routinely slower than the M3 in 0-60 and 1/4 mile, plus they weigh a ton and have four-doors. Not my cup-o-tea. Definitely interested in the C6 Z06 though. My plan is to S/C my M3, and then put a C6 Z06 in my garage right next to it a couple of years.:thumbs:
[Modified by EOD_M3, 11:18 AM 1/11/2004]
Regarding the M5, they are routinely slower than the M3 in 0-60 and 1/4 mile, plus they weigh a ton and have four-doors. Not my cup-o-tea. Definitely interested in the C6 Z06 though. My plan is to S/C my M3, and then put a C6 Z06 in my garage right next to it a couple of years.:thumbs:
You gotta be nutz to supercharge an M3. Forced induction on a 11.5 to 1 stock motor is a recipe for disaster. Don't care what boost you run. The only prayer your motor has is if you run race gas ALL THE TIME.
How much is the Dinan kit? If they're offering a 50k warranty on the motor, then it must be BIG bucks - enough to cover an entire replacement motor with some profit left over is my guess.
With the amount of money you'll end up sinking into that thing, wouldn't you just be better off buying an M5? Or better yet, if you want to go fast, get a Z06! :p
How much is the Dinan kit? If they're offering a 50k warranty on the motor, then it must be BIG bucks - enough to cover an entire replacement motor with some profit left over is my guess.
With the amount of money you'll end up sinking into that thing, wouldn't you just be better off buying an M5? Or better yet, if you want to go fast, get a Z06! :p
[Modified by EOD_M3, 11:18 AM 1/11/2004]
Drifting
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 1,695
Likes: 0
From: Long Island NY
Re: Z06 vs. E46 M3 Race (EOD_M3)
Race gas won;t be needed as all the above companies kits are very streetable.