Which Air Intake?
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,411
Likes: 1
From: Wilmington NC
Originally Posted by Dave68
Sure,
Look here:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=825702
I figure that if manufacturers like Calloway want to give bhp (crank) numbers, then I can say that I have gained 14.5 bhp (minus one or two for the Borla Stinger cat-backs) for an intake system cost of $199. Compare that to the price of the Calloway and I think you'll agree that the Stinger-R gives you much more for the money. Add tuning and you've got at least 25 bhp.
I do suspect that in order to generate the 17 bhp number, Calloway probably blasted a 200 MPH fan at the front of the car. I'll bet that if I did the same to my car, my bhp woulda jumped to 17 or 18 easily, since I too, have a cold air system. In other words, take what you read with a grain of salt - the K&N FIPK is advertised to increase RWHP by 17.7. It is possible, but only if the airflow conditions are real-world, whereas most dyno shops do NOT have the capability to simulate 100 mph+ air velocities.
Look here:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=825702
I figure that if manufacturers like Calloway want to give bhp (crank) numbers, then I can say that I have gained 14.5 bhp (minus one or two for the Borla Stinger cat-backs) for an intake system cost of $199. Compare that to the price of the Calloway and I think you'll agree that the Stinger-R gives you much more for the money. Add tuning and you've got at least 25 bhp.
I do suspect that in order to generate the 17 bhp number, Calloway probably blasted a 200 MPH fan at the front of the car. I'll bet that if I did the same to my car, my bhp woulda jumped to 17 or 18 easily, since I too, have a cold air system. In other words, take what you read with a grain of salt - the K&N FIPK is advertised to increase RWHP by 17.7. It is possible, but only if the airflow conditions are real-world, whereas most dyno shops do NOT have the capability to simulate 100 mph+ air velocities.
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 19,304
Likes: 85
From: San Diego CA
Originally Posted by Richin Chicago
Sorry but a dyno test 2 years later with an added variable of cat backs doesn't prove much of anything.
By the way, it is well known that cat backs add little, if any gains to normally-aspirated C5s. I thought you guys knew that, but I guess I was mistaken.
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,411
Likes: 1
From: Wilmington NC
Originally Posted by Dave68
Well, if you don't believe it, take a look at another forum member's post that has been copied onto the Halltech website. The guy dynoed his bone-stock Z06, swapped intakes (with the Stinger-R) and gained 13 RWHP.
By the way, it is well known that cat backs add little, if any gains to normally-aspirated C5s. I thought you guys knew that, but I guess I was mistaken.
By the way, it is well known that cat backs add little, if any gains to normally-aspirated C5s. I thought you guys knew that, but I guess I was mistaken.
Well I gained about 8 HP after I added the Corsa. But that was 3 months between Dyno pulls so it means nothing. Just can't make claims like that.
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,411
Likes: 1
From: Wilmington NC
Originally Posted by Dave68
Please, post your actual dyno numbers and we'll compare our mods and how they increase RWHP and RWTQ.
My point is that dyno tests 2 years apart prove absolutely nothing. On top of it you throw in another variable of a different exhaust.
There is no comparison.
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 19,304
Likes: 85
From: San Diego CA
Originally Posted by Richin Chicago
My point is that dyno tests 2 years apart prove absolutely nothing. On top of it you throw in another variable of a different exhaust.
There is no comparison.
There is no comparison.
Well, if you don't believe it, take a look at another forum member's post that has been copied onto the Halltech website. The guy dynoed his bone-stock Z06, swapped intakes (with the Stinger-R) and gained 13 RWHP.
Soooooo, I quote a Z06 owner who swapped out intakes within minutes of dyno runs and he gains almost the exact same RWHP as I did and you STILL don't believe that the gains are for real. Count yourself as one of the few doubters left; it's your loss (of RWHP), not ours!
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Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,411
Likes: 1
From: Wilmington NC
Originally Posted by Dave68
I guess this post passed right by you:
Let's see, we have dyno results two years apart that were done on the same dyno, near-identical temperatures and with the same correction factor and that wasn't good enough for you.
Soooooo, I quote a Z06 owner who swapped out intakes within minutes of dyno runs and he gains almost the exact same RWHP as I did and you STILL don't believe that the gains are for real. Count yourself as one of the few doubters left; it's your loss (of RWHP), not ours!
Let's see, we have dyno results two years apart that were done on the same dyno, near-identical temperatures and with the same correction factor and that wasn't good enough for you.
Soooooo, I quote a Z06 owner who swapped out intakes within minutes of dyno runs and he gains almost the exact same RWHP as I did and you STILL don't believe that the gains are for real. Count yourself as one of the few doubters left; it's your loss (of RWHP), not ours!
Let's see in 2 years.... A car would be running the exact same oil cst. Would have the exact same ring tension. The same amount of carbon in the combustion chambers. The same bearing loads. The plugs would have the same gap and coating. The running gear would have the same oil CST. And of course you would be running the exact same AFR.
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,227
Likes: 96
From: not far enough from Chicago
Originally Posted by Dave68
The Blackwing was the best bang for the buck, but its title was unsurped recently when the Halltech Stinger-R hit the market. Consider what you get:
Blackwing ($230), Filter
Stinger-R ($199.00) Filter, huge airbridge and smooth throttlebody coupler.
Blackwing ($230), Filter
Stinger-R ($199.00) Filter, huge airbridge and smooth throttlebody coupler.
Last edited by StevieB; Jul 23, 2004 at 12:12 AM.
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 19,304
Likes: 85
From: San Diego CA
Doubting Thomases can still be found on this Forum!
Originally Posted by Richin Chicago
Let's see in 2 years.... A car would be running the exact same oil cst. Would have the exact same ring tension. The same amount of carbon in the combustion chambers. The same bearing loads. The plugs would have the same gap and coating. The running gear would have the same oil CST. And of course you would be running the exact same AFR.
.......uh no, even with the minute changes you mention, a 1 or 2 RWHP difference would be more than genererous. StevieB - I wish! Actually, I comment because I believe in this product. It's about time we C5 owners can buy a mod that doesn't have a "Corvette" tax.
Race Director
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 19,459
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From: Schaumburg IL
CI 7-8-9-11 Veteran
St. Jude Donor '06-'10, '13
Originally Posted by StevieB
Dave, EVERY TIME there is an intake thread, I KNOW I will find you in there. Are you getting a kickback from Halltech?
J/KBTW- I am installing the cold air fog grills this weekend, do you have those on your car? I didn't have time to do your mod this week when I put the STinger on, but I plan on maybe doing it this weekend (directions already printed out!)
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 19,304
Likes: 85
From: San Diego CA
No fog light panel screens yet
Originally Posted by baldy26
come on Dave, we all know you are a spy from Halltech J/K
BTW- I am installing the cold air fog grills this weekend, do you have those on your car? I didn't have time to do your mod this week when I put the STinger on, but I plan on maybe doing it this weekend (directions already printed out!)
J/KBTW- I am installing the cold air fog grills this weekend, do you have those on your car? I didn't have time to do your mod this week when I put the STinger on, but I plan on maybe doing it this weekend (directions already printed out!)
I was almost going to slot my fog light panels but had some doubts as to how proffesional they would look. I've heard that removing the panels to install the grills is a real pain - some have removed the front facia to do it. This is why I came up with the cold air mod. Having both the front inlets and cold air mod would be best, since opening up the panels would tend to cool off engine components (but may not provide any more cooling of intake air compared to the CAI mod), potentially leading to longer life. If I were you and had cold air fog grills already, I'd check the temp of the airbridge after a minimum of a 15 minute drive on a hot day. If the bridge is not hot to the touch, then you may be able to forego doing my cold air mod. However, if the airbridge is very warm-to-hot, my CAI mod will definitely help. Now if you had one of those OBDII sensors that monitors intake air temps, you'd have a more accurate baseline, but the "touch" method is a good way to get a general "feel" of how effective your mods are in bringing the air temps to the throttlebody down.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 5,482
Likes: 1
From: Living the Taxation Dream Indiana
I had the Vararam on my 2000 and now have the Stinger on my 2004. Given the choice again, I would buy the Stinger again. The Stinger gave me 2/10th's and 2mph in the 1/4 and only took 15 mins to install with a better fit and finish. The extra 1/10th in the 1/4 is not worth my 3 hours under the front end of the car...might just be me though
Race Director
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 19,459
Likes: 48
From: Schaumburg IL
CI 7-8-9-11 Veteran
St. Jude Donor '06-'10, '13
Originally Posted by Dave68
Baldy,
I was almost going to slot my fog light panels but had some doubts as to how proffesional they would look. I've heard that removing the panels to install the grills is a real pain - some have removed the front facia to do it. This is why I came up with the cold air mod. Having both the front inlets and cold air mod would be best, since opening up the panels would tend to cool off engine components (but may not provide any more cooling of intake air compared to the CAI mod), potentially leading to longer life. If I were you and had cold air fog grills already, I'd check the temp of the airbridge after a minimum of a 15 minute drive on a hot day. If the bridge is not hot to the touch, then you may be able to forego doing my cold air mod. However, if the airbridge is very warm-to-hot, my CAI mod will definitely help. Now if you had one of those OBDII sensors that monitors intake air temps, you'd have a more accurate baseline, but the "touch" method is a good way to get a general "feel" of how effective your mods are in bringing the air temps to the throttlebody down.
I was almost going to slot my fog light panels but had some doubts as to how proffesional they would look. I've heard that removing the panels to install the grills is a real pain - some have removed the front facia to do it. This is why I came up with the cold air mod. Having both the front inlets and cold air mod would be best, since opening up the panels would tend to cool off engine components (but may not provide any more cooling of intake air compared to the CAI mod), potentially leading to longer life. If I were you and had cold air fog grills already, I'd check the temp of the airbridge after a minimum of a 15 minute drive on a hot day. If the bridge is not hot to the touch, then you may be able to forego doing my cold air mod. However, if the airbridge is very warm-to-hot, my CAI mod will definitely help. Now if you had one of those OBDII sensors that monitors intake air temps, you'd have a more accurate baseline, but the "touch" method is a good way to get a general "feel" of how effective your mods are in bringing the air temps to the throttlebody down.
Hey Dave as always thanks for the insight...when I was putting the Stinger in the other day..by the looks of it , it does look like a PITA to do.Frank
Race Director
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 19,459
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From: Schaumburg IL
CI 7-8-9-11 Veteran
St. Jude Donor '06-'10, '13
Originally Posted by JeremyMSG
I had the Vararam on my 2000 and now have the Stinger on my 2004. Given the choice again, I would buy the Stinger again. The Stinger gave me 2/10th's and 2mph in the 1/4 and only took 15 mins to install with a better fit and finish. The extra 1/10th in the 1/4 is not worth my 3 hours under the front end of the car...might just be me though
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,227
Likes: 96
From: not far enough from Chicago
Originally Posted by Dave68
StevieB - I wish! Actually, I comment because I believe in this product. It's about time we C5 owners can buy a mod that doesn't have a "Corvette" tax.
BTW, I also went with the Stinger and the Dave68 CAI mod, and am very happy with the results. However, I was unable to fit the Stinger air bridge under my hood without it causing the hood to bulge. I tried every possible way to make it fit and just couldn't. I seem to be the only person that ran into this problem. I even removed the hood liner to allow for additional clearance to no avail. I ended up using the stock air bridge with the Stinger filter element. Another forum member did the same thing because his rubbed on his custom painted liner. He felt that a stock LS1 would obtain very little benefit from the larger air bridge anyway. The most important aspect of the Stinger is the large surface area of the filter, as opposed to the VERY restrictive stock air box.
Race Director
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 19,459
Likes: 48
From: Schaumburg IL
CI 7-8-9-11 Veteran
St. Jude Donor '06-'10, '13
StevieB I am might be having the same problem with hood clearance,,I have not noticed a buldge in the hood...but at first it would not close and I had to do some manuvring to get it to..I might go back to the stock air bridge as well....we'll see 
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,227
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From: not far enough from Chicago
Originally Posted by baldy26
StevieB I am might be having the same problem with hood clearance,,I have not noticed a buldge in the hood...but at first it would not close and I had to do some manuvring to get it to..I might go back to the stock air bridge as well....we'll see
The bulge was at the front edge just above the C5 logo and the side edges just behind the headlights. I had to sight it at just the right angle to see it, but I was not willing to put up with that. I talked to Dave68 on the phone and through e-mails and he had no problem. I decided that maybe the older C5s had a different radiator shroud, but that doesn't appear to be the case, because there seem to be plenty of guys using it just fine. Go figure
