Do we really have it "so bad".
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Originally Posted by nightshift
I love my baby...no matter what 
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2004
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From: Toledo Ohio
CI 6-7-8-9 Veteran
St. Jude Donor '07
Originally Posted by MilesW
I have never owned anything but American cars out of principle. Keep my dollars employing North Americans.
Over the years I have seen huge improvements in the american made automobile. At the moment I own a 1984 Z28, a 1987 Ford Thunderbird, and my 03 Aniversary Vette. The Camaro has had normal wear and tear repairs like starter, alternator, axle bearings, brakes, tires etc. None of these repairs have cost me more than $400 dollars (Canadian), try buying a Toyota alternator or starter, its scary. My T-Bird has had no problems, and the Vette has run 19,000 flawless Kilometers. I have raced all of these cars on the dragstrip, road track, and solo 1. No one can tell me that Americans dont make the best cars in the world. How many foreign cars will take this abuse and keep on rolling.
I feel Incredibly lucky to be able to buy a Farrari Killer for a fraction of the cost, and as some other people here have said there will always be a Vette in my garage.
Over the years I have seen huge improvements in the american made automobile. At the moment I own a 1984 Z28, a 1987 Ford Thunderbird, and my 03 Aniversary Vette. The Camaro has had normal wear and tear repairs like starter, alternator, axle bearings, brakes, tires etc. None of these repairs have cost me more than $400 dollars (Canadian), try buying a Toyota alternator or starter, its scary. My T-Bird has had no problems, and the Vette has run 19,000 flawless Kilometers. I have raced all of these cars on the dragstrip, road track, and solo 1. No one can tell me that Americans dont make the best cars in the world. How many foreign cars will take this abuse and keep on rolling.
I feel Incredibly lucky to be able to buy a Farrari Killer for a fraction of the cost, and as some other people here have said there will always be a Vette in my garage.
Well stated 
a kool view from up north. Now all we have left is to warm up the weatherman 
Racer
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 288
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by 1Patriot
As daily drivers, I have owned Japanese, German and many american models over the last 60 plus years. Some have been excellent commuter cars and others have been dogs. But none has kept me smiling as well as the 3 Corvettes that I have considered as daily drivers. They have been the best commuter cars, bare none. My 88 and my 96 coupes each required a single flatbed ride: unexpected battery failue in each of them. And yes, there have been mechanical failures in each but nothing that left me on the side of the road.
I grew up, years before most of you and I can tell you about poor design and absent quality of cars in the 40s, 50s and 60s; when you spent all weekend working on the cars so they could be driven the next week and when you went on a trip, you carried a larger tool box and spare parts and tires for reserves to make sure you got back withput the aid of a hook.
Modern day corvettes are great cars and the price of these cars is very reasonable compared to the releability and quickness and handling. Very hard to beat, regardless of which country's vehicles you want to compare them to.
I grew up, years before most of you and I can tell you about poor design and absent quality of cars in the 40s, 50s and 60s; when you spent all weekend working on the cars so they could be driven the next week and when you went on a trip, you carried a larger tool box and spare parts and tires for reserves to make sure you got back withput the aid of a hook.
Modern day corvettes are great cars and the price of these cars is very reasonable compared to the releability and quickness and handling. Very hard to beat, regardless of which country's vehicles you want to compare them to.
Former Vendor
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,876
Likes: 8
From: Las Vegas NV
St. Jude Donor '06 & '12
Originally Posted by Evil-Twin
I suggest you sell your GM Corvette as soon as possible. Get that Ford or Dodge...
This is a 100,000 sports car with a 50,000 dollars price tag.. If this car was perfect it "WOULD BE" 100,000 dollars. If this car had a Porche badge on it , it would have a 100,000+ price tag and would still have a ton of problems. If this was an NSX it would still be 100,000+. So be thankful for little things. There is no car in the world that can come close to this car for the same money. This car has history, has always been designed and built with the passion of GM engineers and employees. There is no doubt what it is to anyone. It is not a Euro clone, or a Japanese wanna be. Be thankful that GM project management has put in place a program with budget restraints to deliver this awesome car for 50,000 dollars. This is America, at it finest...
This is a 100,000 sports car with a 50,000 dollars price tag.. If this car was perfect it "WOULD BE" 100,000 dollars. If this car had a Porche badge on it , it would have a 100,000+ price tag and would still have a ton of problems. If this was an NSX it would still be 100,000+. So be thankful for little things. There is no car in the world that can come close to this car for the same money. This car has history, has always been designed and built with the passion of GM engineers and employees. There is no doubt what it is to anyone. It is not a Euro clone, or a Japanese wanna be. Be thankful that GM project management has put in place a program with budget restraints to deliver this awesome car for 50,000 dollars. This is America, at it finest...
In my opinion this is the exact reason why GM does nothing about it. They know that know matter what happens they wil "ALWAYS" sell Corvettes.. Manufacturers DO NOT change their practices until the buying public makes them...
BTW, I'm not about to start the protest.... I Love My Car..
Last edited by Jeff @ TPE; Jan 19, 2005 at 01:41 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 21,325
Likes: 3,841
From: small town in S.E Pa. PA
St. Jude Donor '03-'04
Originally Posted by AMERICAN_HP
*Not Flaming against you, just a general comment*
In my opinion this is the exact reason why GM does nothing about it. They know that know matter what happens they wil "ALWAYS" sell Corvettes.. Manufacturers DO NOT change their practices until the buying public makes them...
BTW, I'm not about to start the protest.... I Love My Car..
In my opinion this is the exact reason why GM does nothing about it. They know that know matter what happens they wil "ALWAYS" sell Corvettes.. Manufacturers DO NOT change their practices until the buying public makes them...
BTW, I'm not about to start the protest.... I Love My Car..
Gm is all about continuous improvments..and cutting edge technologies.. they could build a more perfect car, sell it for 100,000 dollars, make less units and still turn as good a profit... GM has always been about the American working man and woman... GM does care. They care enough to deliver this car to us at a price which is affordable to an average working man or woman. The Corvette has always made a statement about America. You need to go to an FMEA meeting when 20 engineers get together to solve a problem you want to see focus and dedication to the car... not their job.. its about the car... .. you want to see some passion for this car.. Just go to Bowling Green , you won't find people more excited about their job.. GM does care. especially with this car...
Just feast your eyes on the C6 Z06. 65,000 for a 427 carbon fibered rocket ship with more eye appeal in it's subtle nuances than just about any car in the 100k to 150k price range..No other American car has sustained such appeal and popularity as the Corvette. From little boys to grown men, Corvettes have been a dream, to some a dream come true.. to others, it's a life long goal.. a some day wish..
OK that's general enough.
Last edited by Evil-Twin; Jan 19, 2005 at 02:41 PM.
Former Vendor
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,876
Likes: 8
From: Las Vegas NV
St. Jude Donor '06 & '12
Originally Posted by Evil-Twin
I will give you a general rebuttal.
Gm is all about continuous improvments..and cutting edge technologies.. they could build a more perfect car, sell it for 100,000 dollars, make less units and still turn as good a profit... GM has always been about the American working man and woman... GM does care. They care enough to deliver this car to us at a price which is affordable to an average working man or woman. The Corvette has always made a statement about America. You need to go to an FMEA meeting when 20 engineers get together to solve a problem you want to see focus and dedication to the car... not their job.. its about the car... .. you want to see some passion for this car.. Just go to Bowling Green , you won't find people more excited about their job.. GM does care. especially with this car...
Just feast your eyes on the C6 Z06. 65,000 for a 427 carbon fibered rocket ship with more eye appeal in it's subtle nuances than just about any car in the 100k to 150k price range..No other American car has sustained such appeal and popularity as the Corvette. From little boys to grown men, Corvettes have been a dream, to some a dream come true.. to others, it's a life long goal.. a some day wish..
OK that's general enough.
Gm is all about continuous improvments..and cutting edge technologies.. they could build a more perfect car, sell it for 100,000 dollars, make less units and still turn as good a profit... GM has always been about the American working man and woman... GM does care. They care enough to deliver this car to us at a price which is affordable to an average working man or woman. The Corvette has always made a statement about America. You need to go to an FMEA meeting when 20 engineers get together to solve a problem you want to see focus and dedication to the car... not their job.. its about the car... .. you want to see some passion for this car.. Just go to Bowling Green , you won't find people more excited about their job.. GM does care. especially with this car...
Just feast your eyes on the C6 Z06. 65,000 for a 427 carbon fibered rocket ship with more eye appeal in it's subtle nuances than just about any car in the 100k to 150k price range..No other American car has sustained such appeal and popularity as the Corvette. From little boys to grown men, Corvettes have been a dream, to some a dream come true.. to others, it's a life long goal.. a some day wish..
OK that's general enough.
Damn, That could almost be made into a commercial
Race Director
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 19,459
Likes: 48
From: Schaumburg IL
CI 7-8-9-11 Veteran
St. Jude Donor '06-'10, '13
Originally Posted by Evil-Twin
I suggest you sell your GM Corvette as soon as possible. Get that Ford or Dodge...
This is a 100,000 sports car with a 50,000 dollars price tag.. If this car was perfect it "WOULD BE" 100,000 dollars. If this car had a Porche badge on it , it would have a 100,000+ price tag and would still have a ton of problems. If this was an NSX it would still be 100,000+. So be thankful for little things. There is no car in the world that can come close to this car for the same money. This car has history, has always been designed and built with the passion of GM engineers and employees. There is no doubt what it is to anyone. It is not a Euro clone, or a Japanese wanna be. Be thankful that GM project management has put in place a program with budget restraints to deliver this awesome car for 50,000 dollars. This is America, at it finest...
This is a 100,000 sports car with a 50,000 dollars price tag.. If this car was perfect it "WOULD BE" 100,000 dollars. If this car had a Porche badge on it , it would have a 100,000+ price tag and would still have a ton of problems. If this was an NSX it would still be 100,000+. So be thankful for little things. There is no car in the world that can come close to this car for the same money. This car has history, has always been designed and built with the passion of GM engineers and employees. There is no doubt what it is to anyone. It is not a Euro clone, or a Japanese wanna be. Be thankful that GM project management has put in place a program with budget restraints to deliver this awesome car for 50,000 dollars. This is America, at it finest...
I guess that is one of the very few downsides to this forum...people sometimes need to vent and rant, so they come to the Vette forum because they know we have the same cars and my have experienced something similar.Bottom line, like Evil Twin states, you will not find a better bang-for-buck sports car. 100k for 50k. I always laughed when people complain about the interior of the vette as being cheap
you want the BMR or Benz interior, then your vette price-tag will now be 80-100k
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From: "It's 106 miles to Chicago, we've got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and
St. Jude Donor '03-'04-'05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16-'17-‘18-'19
NCM Sinkhole Donor
WOW, E-T. I always knew when it came to the mechanical questions and engineering issues, you were the man to talk to. I never knew you were so articulate. BRAVO 
- that was an incredibly fantastic answer!
I am very impressed with the passion displayed in your answer.
I have been to Bowling Green three times, and the pride that you describe is evident as soon as you walk in the main door.
- that was an incredibly fantastic answer! I am very impressed with the passion displayed in your answer.
I have been to Bowling Green three times, and the pride that you describe is evident as soon as you walk in the main door.
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Instructor
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 181
Likes: 1
From: Nashville TN
Let's not go overboard please. I love Corvette's as much as the next guy. Heck, I have owned 5, 64,67,92,98, and currently a 99. They are amazing cars, with amazing owners, and an amazing heritage, but to say GM could have made a $100,000 dollar car and been perfect, No way. They tried that with the ZR-1 and it was far from perfect. Competition is what has made the Corvette the car it is today. As long as other car manufactures keep producing quality sports-cars, GM will have to keep up. GM still makes about 24% profit on our cars. Heck, they have to in order to support Saturn. I can live with that. I still think it's the premier American Car (not just sports-car) and it always will be. They hit the bulls-eye with the Covette, no doubt, but one can't help but be perplexed when it seems all of their passionate engineering is finding its way to pick up trucks and SUV's. There is something wrong there. Am I wrong to want the same effort and commitment in every GM car, not just the Corvette? Does that make me less American?
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 186
Likes: 0
From: Columbus Ohio
Originally Posted by FrankTank
Excellent post I guess that is one of the very few downsides to this forum...people sometimes need to vent and rant, so they come to the Vette forum because they know we have the same cars and my have experienced something similar.
Bottom line, like Evil Twin states, you will not find a better bang-for-buck sports car. 100k for 50k. I always laughed when people complain about the interior of the vette as being cheap you want the BMR or Benz interior, then your vette price-tag will now be 80-100k
I guess that is one of the very few downsides to this forum...people sometimes need to vent and rant, so they come to the Vette forum because they know we have the same cars and my have experienced something similar.Bottom line, like Evil Twin states, you will not find a better bang-for-buck sports car. 100k for 50k. I always laughed when people complain about the interior of the vette as being cheap
you want the BMR or Benz interior, then your vette price-tag will now be 80-100k
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 21,325
Likes: 3,841
From: small town in S.E Pa. PA
St. Jude Donor '03-'04
Originally Posted by drmgoat
I love the 'vette and wasn't directing my comments at the 'vette. Same goes for the styling. But looking at the other offerings coming from the General and I don't see it. The Aztek is state of the art sytling? How about the GTO or the wimpy SS truck? Personally, I like the C6 and will have one but how many 'I love the C5 more than the C6' posts have we all read & contributed to? I'm not suggesting the other manufacturers don't have issues but I don't see the General leading the pack in either styling or quality.
See what happens when your old and retired.. snowed in and bored...
please forgive me...
Last edited by Evil-Twin; Jan 19, 2005 at 08:23 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 55,394
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by drmgoat
My two cents on this one. I can't see leaving known issues deliberately go unresolved. Certainly some things that go wrong can be attributed to luck of the draw, wear and so forth. Mechanical things do break. However, items like the fuel sending problem and CLB are significant product design failures that should have been corrected (not patched) at the first opportunity. I love my 'vette and have been a GM fan for as long as I can remember but I've lost faith in them. I own other brands, Ford, Dodge, Toyota and there isn't any comparison - GM products have been substantially below these in terms of quality, styling, fit/finish. They need to make some radical changes up there if their going to survive and ultimately thrive. Given the mistakes (can you say Aztec?) and lack of originality were now seeing in their new models combined with their just good enough quality mentality, it would appear that they haven't got the message yet (or they have and don't care to correct it).
BTW, one shouldnt get into the habit of trying to find problems with other cars in order to justify why its ok for your car to have problems. Hopefully the BG Engineeers dont think like this when it comes to quality control.
If you could order a car straight from BG. And on the day you are speaking with engineer he tells you this, would you still order it?
"Listen, we are going to build you a good car. Now it may not be as good as the best manufacturers out there but we assure you it will be up to par with what some of the Industry manufacturers have been producing so far. Our goal when it comes to qulity is to try to keep up with whats out there and we change when that changes."
If I heard that, I would hang up the phone. Wouldnt you?
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 55,394
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by FrankTank
Excellent post I guess that is one of the very few downsides to this forum...people sometimes need to vent and rant, so they come to the Vette forum because they know we have the same cars and my have experienced something similar.
Bottom line, like Evil Twin states, you will not find a better bang-for-buck sports car. 100k for 50k. I always laughed when people complain about the interior of the vette as being cheap you want the BMR or Benz interior, then your vette price-tag will now be 80-100k
I guess that is one of the very few downsides to this forum...people sometimes need to vent and rant, so they come to the Vette forum because they know we have the same cars and my have experienced something similar.Bottom line, like Evil Twin states, you will not find a better bang-for-buck sports car. 100k for 50k. I always laughed when people complain about the interior of the vette as being cheap
you want the BMR or Benz interior, then your vette price-tag will now be 80-100k I would agree with that. Who the heck cares about wind noise? Smooth Ride? Interior looks? Not me anyway, atleast not with a sports car. I didnt by the C5 for that. This is a sports car and it is a true performance car and a thrill to drive. Peformace needs to be top for the buck, as you say, and the C5 definitely is that.
Unfortunately, I'm not getting performance when I have leaking diffs, failed fuel components or any other reason why the car is in the shop. Anyone have a car thats gets good performance in the shop?
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 55,394
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by blazeone
I haven't had a single issue with my '04. 6,000 miles of aggressive but none abusive use.
And may you continue to have great fortune! I got my VE seats on BTW. I'll be posting them in the next week or so
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 186
Likes: 0
From: Columbus Ohio
Originally Posted by Evil-Twin
The Aztek is a perfect example of going out on a limb to hit a certain market.. Styling is in the eye of the beholder.. See what happens when your old and retired.. snowed in and bored...
please forgive me...
please forgive me...
Pro
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 650
Likes: 0
From: Southern California CA
Originally Posted by Evil-Twin
I will give you a general rebuttal.
Gm is all about continuous improvments..and cutting edge technologies.. they could build a more perfect car, sell it for 100,000 dollars, make less units and still turn as good a profit... GM has always been about the American working man and woman... GM does care. They care enough to deliver this car to us at a price which is affordable to an average working man or woman. The Corvette has always made a statement about America. You need to go to an FMEA meeting when 20 engineers get together to solve a problem you want to see focus and dedication to the car... not their job.. its about the car... .. you want to see some passion for this car.. Just go to Bowling Green , you won't find people more excited about their job.. GM does care. especially with this car...
Just feast your eyes on the C6 Z06. 65,000 for a 427 carbon fibered rocket ship with more eye appeal in it's subtle nuances than just about any car in the 100k to 150k price range..No other American car has sustained such appeal and popularity as the Corvette. From little boys to grown men, Corvettes have been a dream, to some a dream come true.. to others, it's a life long goal.. a some day wish..
OK that's general enough.
Gm is all about continuous improvments..and cutting edge technologies.. they could build a more perfect car, sell it for 100,000 dollars, make less units and still turn as good a profit... GM has always been about the American working man and woman... GM does care. They care enough to deliver this car to us at a price which is affordable to an average working man or woman. The Corvette has always made a statement about America. You need to go to an FMEA meeting when 20 engineers get together to solve a problem you want to see focus and dedication to the car... not their job.. its about the car... .. you want to see some passion for this car.. Just go to Bowling Green , you won't find people more excited about their job.. GM does care. especially with this car...
Just feast your eyes on the C6 Z06. 65,000 for a 427 carbon fibered rocket ship with more eye appeal in it's subtle nuances than just about any car in the 100k to 150k price range..No other American car has sustained such appeal and popularity as the Corvette. From little boys to grown men, Corvettes have been a dream, to some a dream come true.. to others, it's a life long goal.. a some day wish..
OK that's general enough.
Premium Supporting Vendor
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 36,838
Likes: 438
From: Manassas Park VA
St. Jude Donor '07-'08,-'13-'14, '16-'17
suggest you sell your GM Corvette as soon as possible. Get that Ford or Dodge...
Peace
Willfulone
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