GHL Bullets + Halltech Stinger= Too Lean??
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Joined: Apr 2004
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From: georgetown, TX TX
GHL Bullets + Halltech Stinger= Too Lean??
I just installed GHL Bullets on my 2000 FRC 200 miles ago and love 'em.I am thinking about buying a Halltech Stinger intake for my otherwise stock hardtop 345 HP LS1.The car runs great now and this is a street C5,never used in competition.I plan on keeping the car forever and I am the original owner.I do not want to get involved in any tuning or dyno runs.My question is this: Will this intake/exhaust combination cause a lean fuel condition that may harm the engine or create surging or driveability problems?It is not worth it to me if all I gain is a few horsepower at very high revs.I like midrange torque!!! Thanks in advance Hal
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 792
Likes: 19
From: ME
Does anyone else have input on this question as I am also equally concerned about installing an intake on my car with aftermarket exhaust. I have spoken with a dyno tuner before and he said, "....you will need a dyno tune if your running an intake and exhaust.... thats what we see". Now it is possible he just wants to make his $450 bucks off me but he probably also knows what he's talking about (dezracing in mass.) Anyone else have experience with this?
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,143
Likes: 111
From: Windsor ON
Originally Posted by servohead
Does anyone else have input on this question as I am also equally concerned about installing an intake on my car with aftermarket exhaust. I have spoken with a dyno tuner before and he said, "....you will need a dyno tune if your running an intake and exhaust.... thats what we see". Now it is possible he just wants to make his $450 bucks off me but he probably also knows what he's talking about (dezracing in mass.) Anyone else have experience with this?
Pro
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 602
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Originally Posted by 97 SC Cobra
In some cases the factory tune seems to be fine. I added Kooks 1 3/4" LT's w/cats, GHL's and a halltech trap and the car didn't trap any better in the quarter than stock (115). I purchased HPTuners and logged some driving time to find my LTFT were +15 to +20 across the board. I'm no expert with it yet but apparently the car is lean and when I go WOT the PCM compensates by dumping xtra fuel in. So, in my case to realize the potential of my mods a tune is very necessary.
However increase the airflow too much and cause the LTRIMS to go over +25 you will get a code.
Another bad thing about not tuning is that when the LTRIMS/STRIMS are positive during part throttle driving WOT fueling is affected when you go to WOT. (Usually adding fuel as it looks at the last cell)
Dyno tuning is NOT a bad thing for your car whatsoever. I would shoot for LTRIMS in the -2 to -4 range and a safe AF ratio on the dyno with decent timing (depending on ambient temps, octane available etc)
This will allow to command a consistent AF ratio at WOT and you'll make more power to boot!
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,143
Likes: 111
From: Windsor ON
Originally Posted by Chrispy
With minors mods like an intake or a catback the PCM will adjust well after several hundred miles of driving.
However increase the airflow too much and cause the LTRIMS to go over +25 you will get a code.
Another bad thing about not tuning is that when the LTRIMS/STRIMS are positive during part throttle driving WOT fueling is affected when you go to WOT. (Usually adding fuel as it looks at the last cell)
Dyno tuning is NOT a bad thing for your car whatsoever. I would shoot for LTRIMS in the -2 to -4 range and a safe AF ratio on the dyno with decent timing (depending on ambient temps, octane available etc)
This will allow to command a consistent AF ratio at WOT and you'll make more power to boot!
However increase the airflow too much and cause the LTRIMS to go over +25 you will get a code.
Another bad thing about not tuning is that when the LTRIMS/STRIMS are positive during part throttle driving WOT fueling is affected when you go to WOT. (Usually adding fuel as it looks at the last cell)
Dyno tuning is NOT a bad thing for your car whatsoever. I would shoot for LTRIMS in the -2 to -4 range and a safe AF ratio on the dyno with decent timing (depending on ambient temps, octane available etc)
This will allow to command a consistent AF ratio at WOT and you'll make more power to boot!
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Race Director
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 19,304
Likes: 85
From: San Diego CA
Originally Posted by servohead
Does anyone else have input on this question as I am also equally concerned about installing an intake on my car with aftermarket exhaust. I have spoken with a dyno tuner before and he said, "....you will need a dyno tune if your running an intake and exhaust.... thats what we see". Now it is possible he just wants to make his $450 bucks off me but he probably also knows what he's talking about (dezracing in mass.) Anyone else have experience with this?
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 19,304
Likes: 85
From: San Diego CA
225 is normal for stop and go driving. Often, however, the installation of a free-flowing air filter in an 02-04 Z will result in getting lean codes unless an MAF screen is installed or the car is dyno-tuned. Are you getting any lean codes?
Racer
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 304
Likes: 0
From: Bryn Mawr PA
If your LTFT are that high, suggest you install an MAF-T or have it edited with LS-1 Edit or similar.
My 99 FRC has a Blackwing and XPipe. After tuning on dyno using the MAFT, my trims are now about perfect (-0.5) or so! Car performs beautifully and put down 326 hp,330 torque! A buddy also had very high trims like yours, he also edited them down to close to slightly negative and saw a tremendous improvement in overall performance as well.
Good luck.
My 99 FRC has a Blackwing and XPipe. After tuning on dyno using the MAFT, my trims are now about perfect (-0.5) or so! Car performs beautifully and put down 326 hp,330 torque! A buddy also had very high trims like yours, he also edited them down to close to slightly negative and saw a tremendous improvement in overall performance as well.
Good luck.
Race Director
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 14,542
Likes: 5
You don't need a dyno tune when you are only adding an intake and exhaust.
The PCM will compensate. Leave the MAF screen in; you'll get better driveability, but maybe lose a few horsepower.
Lastly, make sure you have the most recent PCM flash upgrade from the dealer. They should do it for free, and it will imporve the performance of the car tremendously (as well as curing the gas gauge thing). It's free, and better than a dyno tune for your mods.
Oh yes, my 2000 LS1 with a Blackwing, Corsa Indys, X-Pipe, BBK 80mm TB, and an LS6 intake = 337 rwhp/339 rwtq. No tune required. Gross that number up, and your at the same levels as a 2001 Z06. And, you can still put the top down.
The PCM will compensate. Leave the MAF screen in; you'll get better driveability, but maybe lose a few horsepower.
Lastly, make sure you have the most recent PCM flash upgrade from the dealer. They should do it for free, and it will imporve the performance of the car tremendously (as well as curing the gas gauge thing). It's free, and better than a dyno tune for your mods.
Oh yes, my 2000 LS1 with a Blackwing, Corsa Indys, X-Pipe, BBK 80mm TB, and an LS6 intake = 337 rwhp/339 rwtq. No tune required. Gross that number up, and your at the same levels as a 2001 Z06. And, you can still put the top down.
