See above post.

Korreck, please give more of your wise advice and opinions. I really like that fact you think there is no such thing as cold air.

Does the word "dense" mean anything to you. I know your slow, so I'll spell it out for you... I'm talking about your head.

 

And who says the vetteguru is correct? Point being, all you guys who pride yourselves on being skeptics point your skepticism in only one direction. Why aren't you skeptical of all the naysayers who say "no such thing", or "it's just cold air", or "placebo"? They really have no facts to offer, just an interesting theoretical opinion that is at odds with dozens of people who have installed nothing more than a Vararam and have picked up a good 3 to 4 tenths in the quarter! A good skeptic travels both roads here guys.

http://www.vararam.com/reality_of_ram_air01.html

And regarding real ram air, I think some of you are confusing positive boost with ram air. As we all know, real-world positive manifold pressures can only be achieved with Forced Induction, such as blowers and turbos. A good ram air system will alleviate pressure loss in the manifold, but will not create positive boost. By alleviating pressure loss, you are feeding the engine more air, or perhaps allowing the engine access to air that is accelerated into the intake manifold that otherwise would have to be "sucked" into the manifold. A good induction system will accelerate the air into an engine, making more air available "on demand". Ram Air technology has been used in the superbike field for years. Kawasaki has been especially successful in engineering good ram air systems for their bikes. Why spend millions on the design and propagate it in product after product if it doesn't work?

http://sportrider.com/tech/146_9910_ram/
http://sportrider.com/tech/146_9912_ram/

Maybe we just shouldn't call it ram air. Perhaps we should call these gadgets airflow accelerators? You true skeptics will fully investigate BOTH sides of the equation, right?

 

I measured the air temperature and pressure around the Black Wing.

There was no significant difference in temperature between ambient and intake at speeds over 5mph.

The pressure difference caused by the filter media is similar for all aftermarket oiled filters.

I created a true Ram Air through the license Plate opening. At 100 mph the increase in pressure at the license plate is about 6 inched of water, 0.25 psi. About 1.8% more HP, The pressure increase at 60mph was not significant.

I have been told that at high speed the running light openings will actually go into negative pressure, however I didn’t test that theory.

My results find no support for the cold air claim as both filters see the same air temperature. Vararam being more expensive and harder to install can only be a psychological benefit. Vararam offers no empirical data to support their performance gains. These tests cost less than $25 out of pocket to perform.

But then again I could be wrong

 

No.1 they don't spend millions. No. 2 They propagate this BS to sell their product.

 

Dang sure can't get .3 out of that (1.8%). You must be wrong.

 

1.8% at 100mph, in a stock LS1 that's 6.3 HP. That's not too bad, and if I read the data correct that would be in addition to the cold air HP gain over the stock airbox. Although seems a little low compared to the sportrider magazine test that gave a 120HP engine 12 HP gain at 150mph. So earlier someone said 1% for every ten degrees I believe. So lets say fifty degrees cooler outside air temperature verse under the hood. So five percent would come to an additional 17.5 HP. So at 100mph that would give you 23.8 HP. This is over the stock airbox though not the blackwing as the thread states. Thats not too bad. Although I still am not sure how the blackwing gets outside air, I thought it was under the hood. I know the airbox is in front of the engine but there must be heat trapped under there and also radiating off the engine. Also I dont think psychological or placebo effect would actually change a time slip, I believe that would only work on the driver. Well I can not wait for spring, I think we should get some good data from the two members who are changing their blackwing for a vararam. I predict vararam will be right on the money, this is their prediction over the blackwing:
1/4 mile: 13.91 @ 106.8 MPH vararam
1/4 mile: 14.13 @ 105.1 MPH blackwing with modifications to allow in cold air
Seems like a reasonable claim to me, .22 seconds and 1.7 mph. I wil eat my K&N filter if it can not beat a blackwing by that much.

 

Except that I have the timeslips to prove my claims. I'm curious, did you measure the air temps with the IAT probe?

 

Lets not forget Mr. Credible, you don't believe in cold air..........

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Korreck
Ok, then go to DTE and Lingenfelter and see what they put on their packages. No such thing as ram air or cold air unless you run it through a refrigerator.

Bob


Come on Korreck, why won't you tell us what an intercooler does????????

PLAYED AGAIN!!!!!

 

What materials and methods did you use to measure the temperature and pressure around the Blackwing.

 

OK, then the empirical data that backs up their "BS" must be wrong too. You obviously haven't taken the time to read the links posted.

Ignorance is bliss, and facts are indisputable. Have a good day.

 

Ok, looks like I woke up first. Man that was a furious evening of forum posting. Ok I say vararam wins today too.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave68

Regarding intake air temps: I connected one of those OBDII data loggers to the open connector, just beneath the dash and during the Summer of 04 (Before I installed my cold air mod). During the early morning (6:00 AM) when the ambient temp was down to 50 or so, my intake air temp would reach 115F at 50 mph. At 80 mph, this would drop down to 108F - still many degrees higher than ambient air temps of 50-60F.
During the afternoon when the ambient temps reached 85+, the intake air temps climbed up to a max of 150F at 30 mph and then cooled off to 129F at 80 mph.

My point? At these intake air temps, the engine CPU is retarding timing enough (to prevent knocking) so that HP is down by up to 10. This is real, seat of the pants HP that is being taken away because the air filter is sucking up hot air. The Stock box, Blackwing and Halltech filters cannot pull in ambient air unless it is directed toward them from the outside, either through the front or from underneath.

Originally Posted by auctiondepot
I measured the air temperature and pressure around the Black Wing.

There was no significant difference in temperature between ambient and intake at speeds over 5mph.

The pressure difference caused by the filter media is similar for all aftermarket oiled filters.

I created a true Ram Air through the license Plate opening. At 100 mph the increase in pressure at the license plate is about 6 inched of water, 0.25 psi. About 1.8% more HP, The pressure increase at 60mph was not significant.

I have been told that at high speed the running light openings will actually go into negative pressure, however I didn’t test that theory.

My results find no support for the cold air claim as both filters see the same air temperature. Vararam being more expensive and harder to install can only be a psychological benefit. Vararam offers no empirical data to support their performance gains. These tests cost less than $25 out of pocket to perform.

But then again I could be wrong

Hmmm...auctiondepot, where exactly did you measure, what did you use to measure and what exactly were your numbers?
Ed

 

If you read Korrecks posts, you will see that he makes absolutely zero sense and does a good job of letting everyone know just how ignorant he is. I think it's very funny. I hope he comes back to play today, assuming he's allowed on the computer today. I'm sure his parents are going to tighten the lease when they see all of his late night computer activity.

The guy said there was no such thing as cold air. That has to tell you something...... he's

 

Good to see the thread is alive and well! What's the forum record for most replies?

 

Update 10:36 just figured out ( ) you can sort by replies.

This one had 850 replies and 7846 views but it was a give away!

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=914588

 

True, it's not much, but it's more than the Blackwing gives, and thats what the thread is about.

 

Taking the 'ram air' issue into account, doesn't the filter itself play a major roll in the performance #'s of these cold air intakes?

The Vararam's foam filter is 'porous' compared to its K&N replacement, or the Halltech Warhead filter, Blackwing, etc.

Performance-wise, I wonder how a 'stock' Vararam compares to a 'modded' Vararam with a K&N filter replacement?

'High flow' filters allow more air to flow through them, but with the added risk of more debris flowing into the engine, too.

Always a trade-off somewhere.....

Just food for thought.....

 

Sandra, do you have a source, by any chance, where it could be determined what the parasitic power loss of the Vortech is? That would affect any "apples to apples" comparison here. For example, that loss would have to be subtracted from any power gain to come up with a true presssure where boost would be noticeable. Obviously, the Vararam is not supercharging, but the 1.5 lb boost point you cite, without parasitic losses firgured in, would be lower without those losses. The question is, how much lower? It would be interesting to know.
Ed

 

OMG this such a joke!!!! I fluid dynamics guy LOL I can hardly contain my laughter.,.. where is the volumetric part of the equation ???? you know the size of the intake, the cubic feet of air ingested, and the negative breakdown of the flow at changing angles , the loss of force and velocity required to make an angular change.

This thread serves one good purpose... Lots a bone crushing laughter.