'Hot' vs. cold air intake?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,027
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From: Shiloh Ohio
vetteguru
Originally Posted by Korreck
Last edited by shurite44; Feb 23, 2005 at 09:31 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,027
Likes: 6
From: Shiloh Ohio
Z06 Hood
Originally Posted by MOL
You are right that the vacuum created by the engine will decrease this effect, but as long as enough air is rammed into the intake it should still have an effect.
By the way, the new Z06 has a ram air intake very much like the Viper does. Why would they redesign the hood, if it didn't have an effect?
I do believe in the physics behind this, however, I doubt that a Vararam, for example, will give you 40 hp extra.
.
By the way, the new Z06 has a ram air intake very much like the Viper does. Why would they redesign the hood, if it didn't have an effect?
I do believe in the physics behind this, however, I doubt that a Vararam, for example, will give you 40 hp extra.
.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,367
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by EB20003
INow how long after all of that, and how far down the track, does the intake temperature reach outside ambient temperature, you know, that 70* I was talking about????
It is anybody's guess.
.
It is anybody's guess.
.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2000
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Originally Posted by shurite44
I think after several members install the vararam this spring and compare it to the blackwing we will see increased performance in the qtr mile ET.
They may or may not see an e.t. reduction, they will see ian increase in MPH. That is the true test of additional H.P. being made.
VARARAM adds cold fresh air and it packs the intake with more air because it is being pushed through the air by the spped of the car. Look at it this way. The Blackwing is sealed off from fresh incoming air. Whether you drive 5mph or 100 mph there is not much incoming air. Sorry guys, it's a fact. Look at the location and imagine the hood being closed. VARARAM on the other hand is in front of the fresh airstream. ASyou speed up, that much more air is entering the system. It's so simple, maybe that's why it's hard for some of you to fathom. Oh yeah, I did a comparision, any of you nay sayers do a comparision. How about you Korreck?????????????
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 4,640
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From: Sunshine State
Originally Posted by shurite44
Bob I am glad you posted this link. I was talking about this in a earlier post but could not find it. For an engineer it is probably fairly easy reading, it like some other technical arguments about ram air effect is a little over my head. But something I do understand is there are many articles by engineers that claim just the opposite of the vetteguru. Since in general it all sounds like mumbo jumbo to my non engineering ears I have to use my intuitive abilities and experience. I have to say I still believe that when it comes to an intake like a vararam all of the HP increases are not from cold air alone. I think there is also a combination of airbox resonance and the fact that when the engine starts the intake process there is less resistance and it uses less energy to breathe. I think after several members install the vararam this spring and compare it to the blackwing we will see increased performance in the qtr mile ET.
Bob
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,027
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From: Shiloh Ohio
Originally Posted by Korreck
Ok, then go to DTE and Lingenfelter and see what they put on their packages. No such thing as ram air or cold air unless you run it through a refrigerator.
Bob
Bob
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 4,640
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From: Sunshine State
Originally Posted by shurite44
Well I know LPE runs the blackwing. Not sure on DTE. I can tell you with the performance items LPE puts on the small amount you could get from a ram air if any would make little difference. I want to bolt on the LS7 from gmpartsdepot.com when it comes out in the fall, then I would not worry about a vararam.
Bob
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 4,640
Likes: 0
From: Sunshine State
Originally Posted by 90 droptop
They may or may not see an e.t. reduction, they will see ian increase in MPH. That is the true test of additional H.P. being made.
VARARAM adds cold fresh air and it packs the intake with more air because it is being pushed through the air by the spped of the car. Look at it this way. The Blackwing is sealed off from fresh incoming air. Whether you drive 5mph or 100 mph there is not much incoming air. Sorry guys, it's a fact. Look at the location and imagine the hood being closed. VARARAM on the other hand is in front of the fresh airstream. ASyou speed up, that much more air is entering the system. It's so simple, maybe that's why it's hard for some of you to fathom. Oh yeah, I did a comparision, any of you nay sayers do a comparision. How about you Korreck?????????????
VARARAM adds cold fresh air and it packs the intake with more air because it is being pushed through the air by the spped of the car. Look at it this way. The Blackwing is sealed off from fresh incoming air. Whether you drive 5mph or 100 mph there is not much incoming air. Sorry guys, it's a fact. Look at the location and imagine the hood being closed. VARARAM on the other hand is in front of the fresh airstream. ASyou speed up, that much more air is entering the system. It's so simple, maybe that's why it's hard for some of you to fathom. Oh yeah, I did a comparision, any of you nay sayers do a comparision. How about you Korreck?????????????
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,367
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by Korreck
Ok, then go to DTE and Lingenfelter and see what they put on their packages. No such thing as ram air or cold air unless you run it through a refrigerator.
Bob
Bob
Just because 2 tuners may not advertise them as part of their "package" means what???????????????? Why does Lingenfelter use intercoolers on his turbo cars???????????????????????????????????? ????????????????????????????????
Thanks for the
I needed that today.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,367
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by Korreck
No such thing as ram air or cold air unless you run it through a refrigerator.
Bob
Bob
You just played yourself. Ask your kiddies what that means.
Team Owner
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 26,345
Likes: 232
From: SoCal
Originally Posted by Evil-Twin
there are threads in the two and three thousand ( 3000 ) post count on the same thread... C5Fredricks post on the little jack. Several give away Threads come to mind.
This thread is really silly... as the intake valve opens, air and fuel mixture is sucked in at the volume of the cylindar, and on the compression stroke, that fuel air mixture is compressed...On intake the only way top get more air is to compress it on intake... its like trying to fill a glass with air that is already filled. Now if you put the glass of air under pressure and compress it you can get more air in the same glass.
when you open your mouth with your head out the window, it only fills your mouth, the rest never enters. Using your analogy, a person putting their head out the window with their mouth open would explode because of the ram air effect.. There would be Dog guts all over so many cars that allow their dogs to stick their head out of the car..
you can not over fill a cylinder with air unless it is under compression.
This thread is really silly... as the intake valve opens, air and fuel mixture is sucked in at the volume of the cylindar, and on the compression stroke, that fuel air mixture is compressed...On intake the only way top get more air is to compress it on intake... its like trying to fill a glass with air that is already filled. Now if you put the glass of air under pressure and compress it you can get more air in the same glass.
when you open your mouth with your head out the window, it only fills your mouth, the rest never enters. Using your analogy, a person putting their head out the window with their mouth open would explode because of the ram air effect.. There would be Dog guts all over so many cars that allow their dogs to stick their head out of the car..
you can not over fill a cylinder with air unless it is under compression.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,367
Likes: 0
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by 90 droptop
They may or may not see an e.t. reduction, they will see ian increase in MPH. That is the true test of additional H.P. being made.
VARARAM adds cold fresh air and it packs the intake with more air because it is being pushed through the air by the spped of the car. Look at it this way. The Blackwing is sealed off from fresh incoming air. Whether you drive 5mph or 100 mph there is not much incoming air. Sorry guys, it's a fact. Look at the location and imagine the hood being closed. VARARAM on the other hand is in front of the fresh airstream. ASyou speed up, that much more air is entering the system. It's so simple, maybe that's why it's hard for some of you to fathom. Oh yeah, I did a comparision, any of you nay sayers do a comparision. How about you Korreck?????????????
Korreck, lets be real. I've followed some of the threads you have been in on in the past. This is typical for you. You disagree with logic and common sense. It takes all kinds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 90 droptop
They may or may not see an e.t. reduction, they will see ian increase in MPH. That is the true test of additional H.P. being made.
VARARAM adds cold fresh air and it packs the intake with more air because it is being pushed through the air by the spped of the car. Look at it this way. The Blackwing is sealed off from fresh incoming air. Whether you drive 5mph or 100 mph there is not much incoming air. Sorry guys, it's a fact. Look at the location and imagine the hood being closed. VARARAM on the other hand is in front of the fresh airstream. ASyou speed up, that much more air is entering the system. It's so simple, maybe that's why it's hard for some of you to fathom. Oh yeah, I did a comparision, any of you nay sayers do a comparision. How about you Korreck?????????????
Originally Posted by Korreck
Go argue with yourself sonny boy. Get over it, as my kids would say.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 38,314
Likes: 35
Originally Posted by 90 droptop
They may or may not see an e.t. reduction, they will see ian increase in MPH. That is the true test of additional H.P. being made.
VARARAM adds cold fresh air and it packs the intake with more air because it is being pushed through the air by the spped of the car. Look at it this way. The Blackwing is sealed off from fresh incoming air. Whether you drive 5mph or 100 mph there is not much incoming air. Sorry guys, it's a fact. Look at the location and imagine the hood being closed. VARARAM on the other hand is in front of the fresh airstream. ASyou speed up, that much more air is entering the system. It's so simple, maybe that's why it's hard for some of you to fathom. Oh yeah, I did a comparision, any of you nay sayers do a comparision. How about you Korreck?????????????
VARARAM adds cold fresh air and it packs the intake with more air because it is being pushed through the air by the spped of the car. Look at it this way. The Blackwing is sealed off from fresh incoming air. Whether you drive 5mph or 100 mph there is not much incoming air. Sorry guys, it's a fact. Look at the location and imagine the hood being closed. VARARAM on the other hand is in front of the fresh airstream. ASyou speed up, that much more air is entering the system. It's so simple, maybe that's why it's hard for some of you to fathom. Oh yeah, I did a comparision, any of you nay sayers do a comparision. How about you Korreck?????????????
I tend to agree with that. ET may not change a lot, in part because it is influenced so much by traction. Trap speeds can be a very good indicator of horsepower.
If you raise the hood and take a good look at the area between the radiator shroud and the front fascia, you will see that it is far from wide open.
While I won't go so far as to say that the Blackwing is sealed off from fresh incoming air, I can say that the area where the Blackwing sits is not an area where fresh, incoming air is in abundance.
Far from it. If you own a Blackwing or one of the two headed monster intakes, just take your hand and run it as far down the front of the radiator shroud as you can. To the front and the left and right. See how many openings for incoming air you find.
If you have a light, place it on the floor under the nose of the car. Then raise the hood, look in front of the radiator shroud and to the left and right of it and see where and how much light comes through. You'll see that it is not a lot.
Thats one of the reasons for cutting the radiator shroud with some of the other intake systems and at one time even with the Blackwing before surging issues became a problem. To let in more fresh relatively cooler, air.
Once again, if it makes a difference, I will find out.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,367
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by Korreck
Wrong quote dummy. 
Let me explain it to you. You posted simple stupidity, I was bringing it to your attention.... AGAIN. Got it.
You really do not have a clue do you. Are you sure your not some 12 year old playing on mom and dad's computer? That has to be it, there is no other explanation for your posts. Now go to bed jr., before your momma finds out your playing with the big boys.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,562
Likes: 5
From: South East coast Florida
How many degrees in a circle?
Originally Posted by mowton
My thoughts on this issue after attempting to recall my physics. So bear with me.....
The volume (CF/Sec) of air being applied to the devices, would equate to some induced pressure. As the Intake side is acting as a vacumn, the scenario with the greatest pressure differential should permit the most air to move from the high pressure area to the low pressure area. Based on this, the air being introduced (say at 65 mph) at the Vararam intakes should develop a higher pressure (partly induced by the Vararam design and partly by its own speed) than the enclosed are surrounding the Donaldson. This being true only if the Vette design doesn't force ar into this area by design.
OK, I'm sure I'll either be right or flame out. Be kind
The volume (CF/Sec) of air being applied to the devices, would equate to some induced pressure. As the Intake side is acting as a vacumn, the scenario with the greatest pressure differential should permit the most air to move from the high pressure area to the low pressure area. Based on this, the air being introduced (say at 65 mph) at the Vararam intakes should develop a higher pressure (partly induced by the Vararam design and partly by its own speed) than the enclosed are surrounding the Donaldson. This being true only if the Vette design doesn't force ar into this area by design.
OK, I'm sure I'll either be right or flame out. Be kind
Originally Posted by mowton
Maybe not positive but could it be less negative? That is still an improvement!
So 4 days later, 175 replies and 2,260 views I may have been in the right vicinity? Now lets get back to the Dynatech vs LG header issue
Last edited by mowton; Feb 24, 2005 at 12:46 AM.
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 19,304
Likes: 85
From: San Diego CA
Originally Posted by R.P.
Shurite44, A lot has changed in the last 20yrs regarding smog testing here in Calif. The test now has both a "visual" and a "computer/sniffer."
You may be able to "sneek" the Varram by an "green" smog tech, but unless you asked for a "pre-test" you could "FAIL" the test based on visual alone! The smog test equipment hooks directly to the computer port/connector under the dash along with a tail pipe sniffer.
The test equipment is "directly connected" to the DMV and transmits the pass/fail results directly to the DMV system.
You may be able to sneek an aftermarket intake by the smog tech`s as some have reported, but you also risk failing the test unless you pre-test (costs extra) first. If caught in the pre-test, you then have an opportunity to re-install the OEM box and return for the actual test.
Cheers, Rick
You may be able to "sneek" the Varram by an "green" smog tech, but unless you asked for a "pre-test" you could "FAIL" the test based on visual alone! The smog test equipment hooks directly to the computer port/connector under the dash along with a tail pipe sniffer.
The test equipment is "directly connected" to the DMV and transmits the pass/fail results directly to the DMV system.
You may be able to sneek an aftermarket intake by the smog tech`s as some have reported, but you also risk failing the test unless you pre-test (costs extra) first. If caught in the pre-test, you then have an opportunity to re-install the OEM box and return for the actual test.
Cheers, Rick
I'll have to agree with RP on this one. My 68 had a stock, open-element air filter and it failed smog. The smog tech looked for any tiny reason to fail my car (even though that setup was legit. The "friendly" smog techs are few and far between, probably because the penalty of getting caught is so great. I bought a Halltech Stinger-R for $199.00 and spent another $30-$40 to open up the lower radiator cover and install a scoop. This set up can be reconverted to the stock box in 15 minutes, yet allows plenty of cold air to be drawn into the intake.
Drifting
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,822
Likes: 2
From: San Clemente CA
Originally Posted by RacrX
wow, who knew this thread would spark so much controversy??? Now I'm COMPLETELY torn! Soudns like the Vararam shouldn't make that much of a difference, but it seems to...killin' me here!
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 4,640
Likes: 0
From: Sunshine State
Originally Posted by THEDVS1
A couple of people have made the point, but let me reiterate - The Vararam is just a really nice CAI below 50 or 60 MPH. Above that you've got a TRUE ram air system that is making extra punch the faster you go!! Very simple, really.
http://www.vetteguru.com/ramair/