"Pull key, wait 10 sec" after GM recall
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Apr 2004
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From: New York
Up date,
The battery is at full charge. I followed the instructions in the service bulletin to resync the ECL. Initially I got "service column lock" "Pull key wait 10 seconds" I shut it off pulled the key, waited then put the key back in and turned to on but not start. The pull key wait message went away but the service column lock was still displayed. I tried to move the car and it quits. I went back and pulled fuse 25 (ECL) and put it back in. Initially, neither of the two messages appeared, but again the car quits as soon as it is moved. Limped it back into the garage and there it sits. I also do hear the noise from the column when I shut the car off. Should that be, I thought on A4's all of the hardware is removed. The wheel will move, ie the column is not locked. Again, it has displayed the service column lock ever since I had the recall done, but it always ran. The pull key wait 10 seconds is new this spring. I don't feel that it should ever have displayed the service column lock message and the service manager "sometimes they do that" is total bull. I am at my wits end with this. I'll be at the dealer bright & early tomorrow.
Klammer
The battery is at full charge. I followed the instructions in the service bulletin to resync the ECL. Initially I got "service column lock" "Pull key wait 10 seconds" I shut it off pulled the key, waited then put the key back in and turned to on but not start. The pull key wait message went away but the service column lock was still displayed. I tried to move the car and it quits. I went back and pulled fuse 25 (ECL) and put it back in. Initially, neither of the two messages appeared, but again the car quits as soon as it is moved. Limped it back into the garage and there it sits. I also do hear the noise from the column when I shut the car off. Should that be, I thought on A4's all of the hardware is removed. The wheel will move, ie the column is not locked. Again, it has displayed the service column lock ever since I had the recall done, but it always ran. The pull key wait 10 seconds is new this spring. I don't feel that it should ever have displayed the service column lock message and the service manager "sometimes they do that" is total bull. I am at my wits end with this. I'll be at the dealer bright & early tomorrow.
Klammer
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From: Denver CO
Originally Posted by klammer76
Up date,
The battery is at full charge. I followed the instructions in the service bulletin to resync the ECL. Initially I got "service column lock" "Pull key wait 10 seconds" I shut it off pulled the key, waited then put the key back in and turned to on but not start. The pull key wait message went away but the service column lock was still displayed. I tried to move the car and it quits. I went back and pulled fuse 25 (ECL) and put it back in. Initially, neither of the two messages appeared, but again the car quits as soon as it is moved. Limped it back into the garage and there it sits. I also do hear the noise from the column when I shut the car off. Should that be, I thought on A4's all of the hardware is removed. The wheel will move, ie the column is not locked. Again, it has displayed the service column lock ever since I had the recall done, but it always ran. The pull key wait 10 seconds is new this spring. I don't feel that it should ever have displayed the service column lock message and the service manager "sometimes they do that" is total bull. I am at my wits end with this. I'll be at the dealer bright & early tomorrow.
Klammer
The battery is at full charge. I followed the instructions in the service bulletin to resync the ECL. Initially I got "service column lock" "Pull key wait 10 seconds" I shut it off pulled the key, waited then put the key back in and turned to on but not start. The pull key wait message went away but the service column lock was still displayed. I tried to move the car and it quits. I went back and pulled fuse 25 (ECL) and put it back in. Initially, neither of the two messages appeared, but again the car quits as soon as it is moved. Limped it back into the garage and there it sits. I also do hear the noise from the column when I shut the car off. Should that be, I thought on A4's all of the hardware is removed. The wheel will move, ie the column is not locked. Again, it has displayed the service column lock ever since I had the recall done, but it always ran. The pull key wait 10 seconds is new this spring. I don't feel that it should ever have displayed the service column lock message and the service manager "sometimes they do that" is total bull. I am at my wits end with this. I'll be at the dealer bright & early tomorrow.
Klammer
This is what I understand about the recall. The lock plate is removed, but the ECL module remains, which is what you hear actuating. Without the plate, the wheel is allowed to move and there's less change the actuator pin will wear to the point of failure.
The "service column lock" message could be related to the anti-theft device associated with the 'pill' on the key. There's been cases where the contacts in the lock become worn from turning the switch and the wires separate or break. I don't think you can start the car when this happens, though.
The 'pull key' message is exactly what I get with the ECL problems I've experienced. It's not impossible for the Harness K to be defective.....electronics go bad all the time. Maybe that's the problem. Hopefully your service writer at the dealership works with the service techs and gets this figured out for you. One way to test if it's the Harness K would be to remove it and plug directly into the ECL and see if it resolves the problem. That would help you identify the culprit.
Let us know what happens.
Drifting
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,917
Likes: 18
From: Tulsa OK
The "service column lock" message could be related to the anti-theft device associated with the 'pill' on the key. There's been cases where the contacts in the lock become worn from turning the switch and the wires separate or break. I don't think you can start the car when this happens, though.
I am having this same issue with my anti theft system. I have replace my key with a new one, but it didn't help. I have ordered a new ignition lock cylinder, but haven't received it yet so I don't know if that will work. I am hoping the contacts in the lock are worn and this will solve the problem.
I am having this same issue with my anti theft system. I have replace my key with a new one, but it didn't help. I have ordered a new ignition lock cylinder, but haven't received it yet so I don't know if that will work. I am hoping the contacts in the lock are worn and this will solve the problem.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Apr 2004
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From: New York
Went to the dealer this am, Said to have it towed in & he would take care of the problem. He checked with a tech and said it could be something to do with the passive entry/security system. I still think it has to do with the recall performed. The part # that they ordered appears to be 89023816 when all the info I have says it should be 88952427. He seemed a little taken aback when I produced the 04006A TSB. That is when he decided to check with a tech and the next answer was to tow it in. He also gave me the 800 # to call to cover the towing. I have a friend that tows, I trust him but I still hate to put it up on the flat bed. We will see what happens.
RedRider98,
Did your problems start after you had the recall done? (I'll also get that CD back to you this week).
Klammer
RedRider98,
Did your problems start after you had the recall done? (I'll also get that CD back to you this week).
Klammer
Drifting
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,917
Likes: 18
From: Tulsa OK
"RedRider98,
Did your problems start after you had the recall done? (I'll also get that CD back to you this week)."
I had my recall done about 9 months ago and the problems started about 3 months ago. So, mine was fine after the recall for 6 months.
Thanks again for mailing the CD to me!
Did your problems start after you had the recall done? (I'll also get that CD back to you this week)."
I had my recall done about 9 months ago and the problems started about 3 months ago. So, mine was fine after the recall for 6 months.
Thanks again for mailing the CD to me!
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 147
Likes: 0
From: Lusby MD
I had this problem after the recall and had to return the car to the dealer three times. The "remove key, wait 10 seconds" was coming up about every other start attempt. They were really stumped as to the cause. They kept the car the third time for three days because they had to get someone (more competent) in their shop to figure it out. After a few "recync's and flashes" it turned out to be a faulty k harness, bad wire. As soon as they put a new one in, no more "remove key, wait 10 seconds". It was a pain and it tested my patience but I did appreciate my dealer sticking to it and not giving me the run-around.
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: Longview Texas
Originally Posted by klammer76
TEXHAWKO, Quasar99 & all,
I removed the lower knee panel. I located the orang, black, green & purple wires. There is a white plastic box wraped in grey foam with the word TYCO on it off to the left side under the dash. There are two connectors that come out of this TYCO box and are plugged into the original connectors with the orange,green,black & purple wires. There is a white sticker on the plastic wire loom of the TYCO box that has the #5042. Is the TYCO box part of the harness K that should have been installed or is that a CLB? I also looked up the service procedure for my car via the sticky. On my bill, it says that the FP - Number for the harness K 2.195 is 89023816. I take it that is the part number? In the service bulletin, it lists another part number for 1998 A4's. Any help is appreciated.
Klammer
I removed the lower knee panel. I located the orang, black, green & purple wires. There is a white plastic box wraped in grey foam with the word TYCO on it off to the left side under the dash. There are two connectors that come out of this TYCO box and are plugged into the original connectors with the orange,green,black & purple wires. There is a white sticker on the plastic wire loom of the TYCO box that has the #5042. Is the TYCO box part of the harness K that should have been installed or is that a CLB? I also looked up the service procedure for my car via the sticky. On my bill, it says that the FP - Number for the harness K 2.195 is 89023816. I take it that is the part number? In the service bulletin, it lists another part number for 1998 A4's. Any help is appreciated.
Klammer
The TYCO relay is part of the GM Harness K that should have been installed on the recall. You are correct, that both connectors from the relay should be connected, one to the original harness and one to the actuator.
You noted that there are two part numbers for the Harness K kit. The original kit was part #88952427 which was superceded by part #89023816. I have heard from my mechanic at the local dealer that the relays in the replacement kits are failing and have had to be replaced a second time. The original relays were black, and the new relays are white, which may be part of the problem if you have the white relay. You can look both of these part numbers up on GMPartsDirect.com and see that they are for the Harness K kit, but if you order the old part number, they will ship you the superceded number.
I think before I had my car towed to the dealer, I would ask them to give me another Harness K wiring harness to plug in and see if that fixed the problem.
Just curious if they also installed the smaller lock plate when they installed the harness. Does your steering wheel lock at all when you remove the key? With the Harness K installed, you should hear the actuator cycle, but the column should not lock.
Last edited by TEXHAWK0; Apr 11, 2005 at 08:03 PM.
Thread Starter
Instructor
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From: New York
Just a question, but if I continue to have this problem, would taking out the harness K and putting in a CLB fix the problem. I never had a problem with the car or column lock but decided to have the Chevy recall done for piece of mind. I really hesitated about this for fear of just this type of problem ( I don't have a lot of faith in any dealers in my area when working on my C5). Maybe I should have just done the CLB myself?
Klammer
Klammer
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From: New York
TEXHAWKO,
I don't know if they would go for giving me another harness. I am more than capable of installing it, but then I would be wary of them saying any future problems were due to something I did.
The steering wheel does not lock at all. I can hear the wirrrr of the plunger activating when I turn on & off.
Klammer
I don't know if they would go for giving me another harness. I am more than capable of installing it, but then I would be wary of them saying any future problems were due to something I did.
The steering wheel does not lock at all. I can hear the wirrrr of the plunger activating when I turn on & off.
Klammer
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From: Longview Texas
Originally Posted by klammer76
Just a question, but if I continue to have this problem, would taking out the harness K and putting in a CLB fix the problem. I never had a problem with the car or column lock but decided to have the Chevy recall done for piece of mind. I really hesitated about this for fear of just this type of problem ( I don't have a lot of faith in any dealers in my area when working on my C5). Maybe I should have just done the CLB myself?
Klammer
Klammer
The relay in the Harness K kit serves the same purpose as the CLB, which is basically just a relay without the actuator staying in the circuit. I went with the Harness K because it keeps the computer happy, AND keeps the actuator in the circuit to keep the correct resistance in the circuit for the BCM.. I have read that some people think that if you take the actuator out of the circuit, it may not properly load the relays in the BCM and eventually will cause a BCM failure.
Last edited by TEXHAWK0; Apr 11, 2005 at 08:12 PM.
Le Mans Master
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From: Longview Texas
Originally Posted by klammer76
TEXHAWKO,
I don't know if they would go for giving me another harness. I am more than capable of installing it, but then I would be wary of them saying any future problems were due to something I did.
The steering wheel does not lock at all. I can hear the wirrrr of the plunger activating when I turn on & off.
Klammer
I don't know if they would go for giving me another harness. I am more than capable of installing it, but then I would be wary of them saying any future problems were due to something I did.
The steering wheel does not lock at all. I can hear the wirrrr of the plunger activating when I turn on & off.
Klammer
With the actuator connected directly to the factory harness, the actuator should still cycle, and should provide the correct feedback to the BCM. The column cannot lock because the lockplate has been removed, but if the actuator FAILS, the BCM will know that it is not in the correct position (or may not be able to determine the position) and will shut off the fuel if you try to drive it. The function of the relay, is so that if the actuator fails, the RELAY provides the correct feedback to the BCM and the car is still driveable.
Last edited by TEXHAWK0; Apr 11, 2005 at 07:56 PM.
Safety Car
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From: Manchester - Political correctness is tyranny with manners.
Did you pull the codes? Our '98 A4 did this a few times, and that was AFTER the factory recall for the harness and column lock removal. Then when it did start, it would die because there was no communication between the TAC module and the PCM, and the fuel gets shut off when that happens. I replaced the TAC module and have had no problems since. It seems that they had some problems with the TAC module in the early C5 years. Hope this helps. If that is your problem, you can order a new TAC module from Fitchner at a greatly reduced price. (Throttle Activation Control) 
If that is your problem, you can order a new TAC module from Fitchner at a greatly reduced price. (Throttle Activation Control)
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Apr 2004
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From: New York
To all,
I got up early this morning. I pulled the knee panel off & disconnected the harness K. I plugged back into the main harness like TEXHAWKO stated and it all was fine, no service column lock or pull key wait...... I then drove it to the dealer rather than have it towed. I am waiting to hear from them now. It appears that the harness K was bad. My question is what would happen if I were to just leave it the way it is now, plugged back into the factory harness eliminating the harness K?
Klammer
I got up early this morning. I pulled the knee panel off & disconnected the harness K. I plugged back into the main harness like TEXHAWKO stated and it all was fine, no service column lock or pull key wait...... I then drove it to the dealer rather than have it towed. I am waiting to hear from them now. It appears that the harness K was bad. My question is what would happen if I were to just leave it the way it is now, plugged back into the factory harness eliminating the harness K?
Klammer
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: Longview Texas
Originally Posted by klammer76
To all,
I got up early this morning. I pulled the knee panel off & disconnected the harness K. I plugged back into the main harness like TEXHAWKO stated and it all was fine, no service column lock or pull key wait...... I then drove it to the dealer rather than have it towed. I am waiting to hear from them now. It appears that the harness K was bad. My question is what would happen if I were to just leave it the way it is now, plugged back into the factory harness eliminating the harness K?
Klammer
I got up early this morning. I pulled the knee panel off & disconnected the harness K. I plugged back into the main harness like TEXHAWKO stated and it all was fine, no service column lock or pull key wait...... I then drove it to the dealer rather than have it towed. I am waiting to hear from them now. It appears that the harness K was bad. My question is what would happen if I were to just leave it the way it is now, plugged back into the factory harness eliminating the harness K?
Klammer
If you leave the actuator plugged in, all is well unless the actuator fails. Then if everything works as intended, the column will not be able to lock (because the lockplate has been removed), but the BCM will shut off the fuel to keep you from driving it with the column possibly locked. (The BCM does not know that the lockplate has been removed)
Just to repeat, the relay in the Harness K is to provide the correct feedback to the BCM so that if the actuator fails (sticks in the locked, or unlocked position) the BCM will not shut off the fuel.
Glad you tracked down the problem.
Last edited by TEXHAWK0; Apr 12, 2005 at 09:16 PM.
Thread Starter
Instructor
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From: New York
I just got my car back today. The harness K was defective. The service mgr stated that he was advised by chevrolet tech assistance that there have been some defective relays (as stated here by TEXHAWKO) and they replaced mine. All works perfect now. He also said that he was told that if a problem like this occurs, that you can unplug the relay as I did to be able to drive it for repair. He also stated that the pull key wait 10 seconds can happen with a low battery (as was also stated here) and that once the battery was charged, the message should disappear. As I stated in my original post, I had the "service column lock" message from day one. I think that would be the first indication that something was wrong with the relay. This is a small dealer and he admitted that the information from the site was helpful. It certainly was for me. Thanks to all for the help.
Klammer
Klammer
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From: Longview Texas
Originally Posted by klammer76
The service mgr stated that he was advised by chevrolet tech assistance that there have been some defective relays (as stated here by TEXHAWKO) and they replaced mine.
Klammer
Klammer
I am glad that any little information I was able to supply kept you from having to have your car towed to the dealer for the repair. I hate when that happens!
Last edited by TEXHAWK0; Apr 13, 2005 at 08:44 PM.