Thanks! I'm going to stop by today to see how the engine tear down is going. I suspect they are still pulling the engine from the car.

 

Yes, I would be there when the heads come off. If something was left in the cyl. you will never know it.
How about a valve seat coming loose? that could lead to the same problem. Not the assemblers fault if thats what happened.

 

It'll be obvious if a solid object was in the chamber, the head and piston top will look like they were shot w/ a 12ga shotgun.

Likely scenarios:

1.) valve-piston contact: shop's fault
2.) solid object in chamber: shop's fault
3.) ring failure: your fault

 

Sorry to here you problem You will really not know till the engine is torn down for sure. Then it should be clear there are signs like everyone is telling you. I have built a few engines and if the dip stick blew out i would not have run it again till i check everything really good. You should never take a car right to the dyno give it some time to seat befor you put that much stress on the motor. Some will say it should hold but i like to err to the safe side in these cases. Good luck and keep us posted to what you find i would like to know.

 

All reputable tuners provide a warranty on a heads/cam package. Even if the cause of failure was something other than the package, both you and the tuner should work out something financially responsible to get you going again. Maybe like you pay for the parts and the labor would be free or discounted or something...........

 

What tuner are we talking about anyway?

Mark

 

SSsshhhhhhhh.......

Not until more of the story reveals itself

 

I find it interesting that the engine pulled 460rwhp on the Dyno and then gave way. My bet is a dropped valve or some type of failure with a spring.

If something was left inside of the engine I don't think it would have survived that first pull, or even a start up and idle for that matter. The valves in the cyclinder would have been mangled quick.

Whoever assembled the valvetrain should absolutely stand behind the problems you are having now(if that is found to be the cause of your problem). Whether that is AFR or the tuner.

Good Luck on getting it back together.

 

Most good tuners will perform "tests" on the motor before they do any type of major work like that. If they would have just done a simple Compression and Leak Down test they could have ruled out quite a few problems and possibly saved you quite a few thousand dollars.

Just My Humble Opinion.

Jeff

 

When the dipstick blew out of the engine the first time, that is a clear sign of excessive blow-by and they should have at least done a compression/leakdown test immediately before another run on the dyno. While a dipstick blowing out may just seem odd to you, any tuner worth his salt should have known this is indicative of major problems and not done another dyno run until the cause is identified and fixed.

Excessive ring clearance due to wear would have most likely shown up as even but low across all cylinders. A broken ring(s), piston lands or a piston hole(s) would be indicated by one more cylinders reading low but most likely not more than a few. This could also indicate a valve train induced problem which holed a piston(s) but I think that would have been apparent due to the way the engine sounded or excessive smoke prior to the last dyno run.

I doubt this was due to a pre-existing condition because there would have most likely been oily or carbonized deposits on the pistons that would have been noticed when they first pulled the heads but if they are dumb enough to have made the last dyno run, they might be dumb enough to have overlooked this.

My best guess is that if the valve train was not the problem, then it was most likely broken rings and/or piston lands that caused the initial problem. This could have been the fickle finger of fate or it could have been caused by detonation from a too lean and/or excessive timing condition.

If things are as messy inside as they sound like they are going to be, then I would be concerned about debris in the intake manifold as this is sometimes the result. Obviously, I can’t say for sure what the damage was before the last dyno run but it’s clearly much worse now.

Hopefully, they will accept at least some responsibility.

Bill

 

They should have NEVER done another Dyno run after the diptick incident..IMO the Tuner should pay for Everything..you should not pay a penny. Even if the dipstick did not blow out the first time..if you motor had some pre-existing condition any good tuner would have run tests on the stock motor to make sure it was at least ready for more HP.

good luck

 

Dont the stock 2001 rings have a blowby problem already at stock HP levels? Didnt they change the rings in 2002 to fix this. Could this just be weak stock rings, add a whole lot of cylinder pressure from 460hp and you get excessive crank pressure...Well could be the problem..Who know until its tore down.

 

If the taper lock is not seated in the valve spring retainer,, it can pop out under high rpm. If this occurs,, the valve can drop down and make contact with the piston. Then it becomes a self clearing system that all parts in the way are mechanically removed by the energy stored in the rotating system.

Inspection when the heads are removed will give the Ah Haaa's..

Lots to learn here.. be sure to take digital photos of the internals and post for others to learn, and help.. 99 Nassau Blue

 

This is a very good suggestion. Takes lots of pics just for your records.

 

Guys, you are all mostly right! Engine never should have been spooled up after the first pop. Any engine builder worth his reputation would stand behind this 100% from a LABOR perspective. Now, the material (ie. your block) is another matter and there are arguments both ways. Sh*t happens in racing and modding...that's why shops charge fairly outrageous prices for this work as every once in a while they have to eat an unknown problem to a good customer.

I had a similar thing happen to me and I bought the replacement short block and the builder ate the one head, cam, valves, pushrods, etc. and ALL the labor. You will likely be able to see semi-circles on the remaining 7 pistons from light comtact between valve and piston. They can touch without breaking and will leave telltale marks until one hits too hard and the piston shatters. Cam duration is generally more the issue that just straight lift. It is high lift COMBINED with long duration that causes interference. Head gasket thickness (especially cometic thins) will cause this if not careful. When the spark occured had nothing to do with pressurizing the crank.

Bill

 

I got out of work too late to drop by but I plan on dropping in tomorrow to see what's going on. Thanks everybody for all the help. I'm starting to feel like I have a better grip on the situation.

In terms of ring leakage; I've never had an oil consumption problems at all despite it being a 2001.

 

.
.
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/engine1.htm


There are 3 rings on the piston. The top 2 are compression rings, the 3rd ring (set) for oil control is actually made of 3 seporate rings.

Check out the site above. Take about 20 minutes to go through this very easy to read, with great diagrams info on how engines work. In 20 minutes you will know more than most of the people on your block about motors.

You will also be able to identify engine parts when you are talking with your engine builders.

 

This is a sad story and I hope it works out for you

 

ENGINE BUILDERS-CHECK IN!! Since we do not know what shop is involved here, can someone give us a plausable explanation for how this could have happened and the builder be in NO WAY responsible?

In think Ajderzie could use the perspective of the motor man here. Under what circumstances based upon what we have here to go on would the shop be in a position to rightfully just say "oh well, sorry for your luck". I want to be open-minded, but I just can't get there. Again, based on this 1/2 of the story being fact.

I don't see the builder having to even be negligent to be responsible. Maybe a part he used in the build-up was defective, but I still say that's the chance they take (the builder). Enlighten me!

 

I want to give the builder the benefit of the doubt and not let him get trashed. He hasn't asked me to pay for anything yet but he did mention how many hours it would take to take the engine out of the car and something about the car having 50K miles on it. He clearly said that he did not want to profit from this misfortune. We'll see what happens once the engine is apart. I've already priced a set of Lunanti forged rotating assemblies so I think I'm going to buy them myself assuming one of those parts is the problem. I think the cost was about 3300 for the parts and it sound like he'll do the labor.

My previous experiences have been very good with the shop but I think with the amount of money involved, both sides are looking at taking a big hit and neither wants it. I think its as simple as that. If I am not completely satisfied with the final outcome, I can always just take my future mods elsewhere.