I think you have the right attitude and perspective on this. My engine builder charged $100/hr. It obviousely does not cost him that much in labor and even when you throw in overhead you don't get there. This is why I say a portion of the margin made on these kind of deals has to go toward just this kind of situation. Your motor did have 50K miles on it, but lacking anything wrong with it serious when you brought it in, you should reasonably expect another 150K of good use out of the long block which you will now not see. Not to mention that neither you nor I (in my case) will ever have a "numbers matching" car-not that this is extremely important possibly, but nevertheless it remains a fact. The fact that he continued to attempt dyno pulls after the initial blow tells a big part of the story in my mind how prudent he was. I suspect the damage was already done at that point anyway, but gheez---how responsible was that? You, on the other hand, acknowledge that you brought in a 50K motor and do not expect or want a brand new motor for nothing. I say the builder is indeed fortunate to be working with a customer like you. You will be out your ride for quite a while during the best part of the driving season...I hope you get yours back in less than the 3 months mine was hung up.
Gene from Karshop sold me a used LS1 long block for what I am sure was not much profit for him (Gene, you rock BTW!). I will never forget the service he extended me when my $10,000 motor blew 1/2 way down Bandimere speedway after 30 days of enjoyment. I was blamed for hitting the rev limiter that the builder had set for me. In any case, I ended up ok- just 3 months of aggravation, loss of use, out a few grand, block that doesn't match,etc. The builder sees his loss as greater, but I can't help that-that's the business he's in.
The bottom line is that your builder has not yet asked you for anything....and he shouldn't. If you want to ease his pain some, then commit to do more business in the future should he prove to deserve it which will give him future earning potential from you, talk up how they stood behind their work to others, and maybe add to the scope of the mods you were considering so he can recoup some of his labor by putting in even better parts than what he will be removing.

He's damn lucky you aren't going ballistic over this. Don't be shy to expect what you deserve. Should it turn out he truly was "set up to fail" by something he could never foresee, you will do the right thing I'm sure. One thing is for sure, by the time he is done you will know evertything about your motor.

Bill

 

Just be professional,, get the data,, and be willing to accept responsibility if the problem was the "core" engine. Mechanical failures always leave traces on what happened. I am sure you will find out. If the builder is at fault and willing to work a deal on $$ with you this is better than getting your car and a box of engine parts.

One of three things.

1) Defective parts.. and not installer fault

2) Defect from installation

3) Core engine problem

In each case there is no clear cut "what's right". I never bash a shop,, NEVER. I got really poor service at a local dealership and was over charged $1000 for a $400 repair. The shop burned out my air suspension pump while testing. I paid in full. The shop mgr apologized for their poor service. I told him I accepted his apology,, but would never do business in his shop again. He fully understood. No foul verbage,, only professional response.

The funny part on this story,, is the service mgr left the dealership and went to the Chevy dealership. You guess it,, He is my Vet service mgr and I get REALLY GREAT service. The first day I walked in,, he looked up and said,, , Hello and I will make sure you get good service.

Just be professional.. and do the best you can.. We are all waiting to hear the results of the tear down.. Jim

 

ajderzie
CF Senior Member





Member Since: May 2003
New York
NY


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Vettech is great. my c5 is there now getting H/C and headers
Enjoy!
__________________
Borla Stingers, Breathless Ram Air Box, 172 Degree T-Stat, MSD Wires, NGK Irridium Plugs, Predator Custom Tune

342.1 RWHP, 359.1 RWTQ

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Actually, that last post was very uncool. I wrote earlier that I had no intention of implying that anyone did anything wrong and I did not want to publish any details about the shop. My original post was only for my own education so that I could make better informed decisions.

For me, as much of a Vette fanatic as I am, my Corvette, in the end, is just a car. For the people that work in the industry, it is their livlihood. I can live without the car, but these people and their families cannot live without their company. I hope that no one reading this thread feels negatively about the shop regardless of what happened. Otherwise, that would really be a shame.

I logged on tonight to say that I am very satisfied with the shop and its owner. The owner called me personally and made a very fair offer which I am completely satisfied with regardless of the mechanism. I will say that he never actually changed anything he said, just reiterated his commitment to keep me as a happy customer. Actually, I have been a very happy customer of this shop for since I moved back to NY 2 years ago and my car has been there for mods 4 times since. Everything that was done has been top noch and the tuning has been truely fantastic.

Some of details in the first post were not completely accurate though not intentionally so. I really only wanted a better understanding of the possiblities, mechanics and potential costs.

Black 01 please delete the above post.

Alain J. Derzie, MD

 

You want to hear how it could be the customers fault......

Customer reads in this forum how great the AFR heads are.....
Also hears how great a little shave is to increase compression......
Reads that with a 0.030 head shave you need type x pushrods.....
Reads how great the 1.85 roller rockers are......
and lastly that a 224/228 cam with LSA 114 will not require fly cutting.....

He shops around for parts buys from three different vendor and saves some cash, collects the necessary gear and goes about calling every shop within 200 miles to find the cheapest shop around that will install his "head and cam".

In this case......very questionable whose fault contact would be unless the shop ask the right questions and does the right checks(like a good shop will, less so in the cheapest shop)

ajderzie sounds like he did the better thing and went to the shop and said please add a cam and heads to my car......let the shop spec it out.
Shop's fault. end of story.

Hope it works out for you, good to hear of the risks. I am looking to do this same H/C job in about a year, what was the parts cost, and labor cost when you add it all up. 460RWHP sound like a great package.

 

It is great that you are working this out amicably with the shop.
However, if i were you , I would want to know what caused this problem initially before i go ahead and do another $5,000 worth of work with the possibility it may occur again.

 

ajderzie

Good to hear things are working out, and while I saw the earlier post I was annoyed too and glad it was deleted. You yourself are handling this very professionally.

That said...the suspense is killing us!!! I'm really curious to know what the mechanism is. But, if due to the vendor name being posted here for a little bit you don't want to share, that's understandable.

Good job handling this frustrating situation!!!

 

Um....was it something I said? What was "uncool" about my (admittedly) long-winded reply? I just think you are being terrific about a situation that might send some of us over the edge! As I said, I think you are looking at it with the right attitude and perspective.

There are quite a few ways you can turn this situation around and end up praising the shop and their willingness to make it right. Good luck and please let us know what happened and that at the end of the day "all is well"

Take care.

Bill

 

Hey boodyman,

It wasn't you!!! Between your post and ajderzie's someone had searched for an earlier post where he did mention where he was takING it to get done...i.e. posted the vendor name when the original poster was trying not to mention it.

THAT's the post we referenced, and it was deleted...hence the confusion. man! Nothing with your replies!!

 

Gotcha! Docs got a good demeanor about him......wonder if he could take a peek at my back.....

 

Hey, buddy. Sorry to hear about your Vette. I can't begin to imagine how frustrated I'd be. Remember, this too shall pass. You might be grounded for a while, but at least nobody got hurt.

Time to remember an old friend and pick up the old six string. Let me know how it turns out.

 

Any updates yet???

 

Great advice from an old friend! Don't be a stranger. No updates yet except that the engine is currently at the machine shop.

 

His insurance should cover it.

 

What's up Doc?? please give the forum another chance to be diplomatic and tell us all how the story ended. I'm sure that you are closer to closure by now.

Bill

 

.



Ya, what gives ??

 

Ok, the story ends...

Turns out there was no internal damage at all. The pistons, rings and block were all fine. Just a whole lot of blow by. So the block went out and I got new forged pistons, rings, crank, and rods. The engine was blueprinted and balanced. Same AFR heads, cam, fast intake, tb, tstat, water pump, headers, xpipe, and a new starter (remember it wouldn't start which is why it went there in the first place). LS1Edit dyno tune made 445 rwhp but that was before the engine has been broken in. I'm waiting for new injectors which are going in next week and then a retune now that the engine has a few hundred miles on it (should pick up another 30hp). The car is insanely fast and smooth. It revs to 6500 rpm very easily and quickly. The sound is also pretty insane, especially with the throttle open. It just screams.

The tuner has been great actually. All of the unanticipated stuff was done at cost plus the tuner FIXED MY OTHER CAR FOR FREE DESPITE ME OFFERING TO PAY. Despite it costing a lot more than I originally anticipated, I can't imagine going anywhere else. Also, I have a very solid 500-550 hp engine that is brand new and the work is top notch. Basically I have the AFR set up that made 468rwhp but with all forged parts on a 112 lsa. Once it gets retuned, I'll let you know if I beat that number and have a fatter curve. (that would be great).
Thanks for all the interest and the input!
ajderzie

 

.

 

Very cool Doc...glad it all worked out, that you are a happy camper, and that most Vette Docs stay with their patients as well! Guess the flying dipstick will remain somewhat of a mystery, but at this point who cares??!!

 

Flying dipstick: All the blow by was pressurizing the crankcase until the pressure escaped out the dipstick holder which forced the dipstick out.