Engine Exploded! Dipstick Shot Across Shop
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 564
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From: New York NY
Engine Exploded! Dipstick Shot Across Shop. NEED ADVICE
So here is the story. My vette and I can never catch a break. A few weeks ago, I went to start her up. Nothing but a click. Got a new battery: the obvious problem. Nothing but a click. I take it to the shop. Faulty relay. While there I decide to finally get my H/C done. AFR 205 heads, 224/228 112 cam, FAST intake, throttle body, Kooks headers, electric water pump, LS1edit dyno tune and painted my calipers black with yellow lettering (sick looking btw). The 3rd run on the dyno hit 460 RWHP then bam, the oil dipstick shot out like a gun! Hmmmm loose dipstick? One more run (partial run actually) bam! Gaskets blown out from under the heads and the dipstick is somewhere in orbit. I guess the crankcase got pressurized from a leak from one of the cylinders. 
Now after two to three weeks without my vette, I'm looking at another month to tear apart the engine and change the pistons, rings, rods, crank, etc to new forged parts. I'm so bummed and I'm sure the bill is not going to be pretty. Feel free to take a guess at what its going to cost. I wont know until tomorrow but I would appreciate a ballpark figure.
Now after two to three weeks without my vette, I'm looking at another month to tear apart the engine and change the pistons, rings, rods, crank, etc to new forged parts. I'm so bummed and I'm sure the bill is not going to be pretty. Feel free to take a guess at what its going to cost. I wont know until tomorrow but I would appreciate a ballpark figure.
Last edited by ajderzie; Apr 20, 2005 at 12:06 AM.
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 14,440
Likes: 3
From: MD
St. Jude Donor '11
Man that's a really bad case of Mod fever. It's never a good idea to run your engine hard after a serious mod session like that. I know people do it, but you have to let things settle first. Sounds like you have a hand full there. Take it easy and good luck.
Racer
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 496
Likes: 0
From: Valparaiso Indiana
So, where does your engine builder check in on this problem? I don't subscribe to the break it in gentle theory although it sounds like a good idea. If built properly, your motor should have survived many a dyno pull immediately after a short run just to make sure no leaks, etc. My motor had thirty dyno pulls back-to-back during a 4-5 hour tune session, before it was done with LS-1 edit and to everyone's satisfaction. I would be asking him what he is going to do about is since doing a H/C swap should have addressed just about everything that could have caused this. I know the surface finish non the deck is very critical to the head gaskets sealing properly and many a motor has been ruined by missing this detail either on the head or the deck. Good luck getting it straightened out before the summer.
Bill
Bill
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 8,762
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From: Murphy TX
Cost - shouldn't the builder field all the cost - especially if it hasn't left his shop. Heck the dyno is just TESTING his work. If it blows up in TESTING I'd say he didn't do too hot of a job.
I'll wait to hear more detail but if you get this pinned on you, and that is common tuner practice, that will sure save me some mod money down the road. No way would I ever let them touch my car if they charge me if it blows up before it leaves their shop!
If nothing else the first time the dipstick flew across the room should have been a clue...their not supposed to do that...
Good luck getting it resolved!
I'll wait to hear more detail but if you get this pinned on you, and that is common tuner practice, that will sure save me some mod money down the road. No way would I ever let them touch my car if they charge me if it blows up before it leaves their shop!
If nothing else the first time the dipstick flew across the room should have been a clue...their not supposed to do that...
Good luck getting it resolved!
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,394
Likes: 6
From: Melbourne FL
Originally Posted by boodyman
So, where does your engine builder check in on this problem? I don't subscribe to the break it in gentle theory although it sounds like a good idea. If built properly, your motor should have survived many a dyno pull immediately after a short run just to make sure no leaks, etc. My motor had thirty dyno pulls back-to-back during a 4-5 hour tune session, before it was done with LS-1 edit and to everyone's satisfaction. I would be asking him what he is going to do about is since doing a H/C swap should have addressed just about everything that could have caused this. I know the surface finish non the deck is very critical to the head gaskets sealing properly and many a motor has been ruined by missing this detail either on the head or the deck. Good luck getting it straightened out before the summer.
Bill
Bill
Racer
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 496
Likes: 0
From: Valparaiso Indiana
I think when the heads were off, these things would be rather obvious wouldn't they? How would the rings have gotten that bad between the last time he drove it and the mods? True enough that the tear-down will tell a story, but explain to me how the head gasket blew out after a head change from bad rings?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 8,762
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From: Murphy TX
Originally Posted by Z06ufgrad2002
It sounds like the problem was a bit deeper than H/C. If it blew the dipstick out, the engine had serious piston blow by. That would be caused by bad rings of a hole in the piston (maybe caused by inproperly clearanced heads) but, I doubt it. You really won't know until they tear the engine down. A ballpark guess on repair cost would be 10K. Higher or lower depending on what parts are needed and what brand you decide to use.
I know the LSx has a negative deck height (right) but the rings should never clear the head gasket...
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Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,394
Likes: 6
From: Melbourne FL
Originally Posted by boodyman
I think when the heads were off, these things would be rather obvious wouldn't they? How would the rings have gotten that bad between the last time he drove it and the mods? True enough that the tear-down will tell a story, but explain to me how the head gasket blew out after a head change from bad rings?
The blown head gasket sounds like a separate issue from the dipstick flying out of the engine. The head gasket issue could have been a faulty part or poor installation. But, in either case I don't think it was related to the dipstick and piston blow by.
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,394
Likes: 6
From: Melbourne FL
Originally Posted by boodyman
Can I make a guess? I'm guessing that you will find "smileys" on top of every piston except the one with a big hole in it. Sorry Hope I'm wrong. 
Bill
Bill
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 20,474
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From: Detroit
Originally Posted by yellow01
Cost - shouldn't the builder field all the cost - especially if it hasn't left his shop. Heck the dyno is just TESTING his work. If it blows up in TESTING I'd say he didn't do too hot of a job.
Forged short block is going to run $3,500 - $4,000.
Mark
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 564
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From: New York NY
I still don't have an answer yet from the tuner. They started taking apart the engine. I seriously hope its not the block otherwise I'm going to end up having to buy that plus forged rotating parts.
Do you guys think the tuner broke my engine or there was some weakness that manifested itself when the added horsepower became an issue? Also, who should pay for what under what circumstances? ie. should I buy the forged pistons/crank etc and they install it? The tuner is a pretty nice guy but I'm sure he is stressing as I am about this. Problem is, I don't want to get walked all over about this. I'm willing to do what is fair but I'm not sure what constitues fair in this situation.
Do you guys think the tuner broke my engine or there was some weakness that manifested itself when the added horsepower became an issue? Also, who should pay for what under what circumstances? ie. should I buy the forged pistons/crank etc and they install it? The tuner is a pretty nice guy but I'm sure he is stressing as I am about this. Problem is, I don't want to get walked all over about this. I'm willing to do what is fair but I'm not sure what constitues fair in this situation.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,427
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From: Fountain Inn, South Carolina
If I were you, I would do some fast learning of the inner workings of motors. Get some knowledge so you can understand what went wrong, and then why. Hopefully your shop is honest, but it's always best to be an informed customer for your own protection.
There may have been some thing wrong in the set up... in the valve train causing valves to slam into the pistons. Your dipstick shot out because the lower half of your motor suddenly became pressurized. Could be broken rings, cracked piston, or a hole in a piston.
What appears to be a head gasket... could be a cracked head due to valve train trauma. Or it could have just been your engines time. Sucks not having your Vette. Going forged should keep you in the driving business... instead of the garage business. Cost is gonna depend on how many parts you can salvage from this situation.
Hopefully your not sweating it too much. Hang in there cheif
There may have been some thing wrong in the set up... in the valve train causing valves to slam into the pistons. Your dipstick shot out because the lower half of your motor suddenly became pressurized. Could be broken rings, cracked piston, or a hole in a piston.
What appears to be a head gasket... could be a cracked head due to valve train trauma. Or it could have just been your engines time. Sucks not having your Vette. Going forged should keep you in the driving business... instead of the garage business. Cost is gonna depend on how many parts you can salvage from this situation.
Hopefully your not sweating it too much. Hang in there cheif
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 8,762
Likes: 2
From: Murphy TX
Originally Posted by mdhmi
I don't know the details of the car in question, but, let's say I bring a total POS motor in for a cam swap.. The shop puts in a new cam.. Motor blows on the dyno.. Is it the tuners fault?
Mark
Mark
The suggestion above about valve/piston contact is the only one that makes sense to me...Oh well, sorry for the speculation - we'll just have to wait for some failure analysis.
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 217
Likes: 0
From: Syracuse New York
Originally Posted by ajderzie
How can you tell if valve piston contact was the cause?
I haven't built an engine since the 60s ... but I used to always assemble my own back then ... just so I had no one to blame but myself. You're in a tough situation ... you'll just have to play the hand out.
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,183
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From: Castle Rock CO
St. Jude Donor '15
To actually launch a dipstick as you describe, the piston would have to fail right at spark and allow the expanding gas to propogate through the bottom end. Depending on what happended to the various chunks of metal, we could explain the head gasket leak.
Todd
Todd
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,347
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From: Slidell La
Check For
Be sure to check for the small socket that was left on top of the piston before the heads were put on. My bet is something 
was left in a cylinder and punched a hole in the piston during run up. Then the high pressure built and blew out the dip stick. If there is hammer dents on a piston it is a good indication something was left in. So be sure to look for many dents in the piston top that is damages. If you find this I would expect the builder to foot the bill.
that was left on top of the piston before the heads were put on. My bet is something was left in a cylinder and punched a hole in the piston during run up. Then the high pressure built and blew out the dip stick. If there is hammer dents on a piston it is a good indication something was left in. So be sure to look for many dents in the piston top that is damages. If you find this I would expect the builder to foot the bill.