Park Brake help needed...
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,737
Likes: 0
From: Northern VA
Park Brake help needed...
Egged on by this thread, I decided to "fix" my lame *** excuse for a parking brake on my '99 FRC.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...ake&forum_id=1
Something is definitely not correct.
The "star wheel" or adjuster assm. DOES NOT appear to have a lever.
It DOES NOT appear to be adjustable in any way. Turning the star wheel has no effect (either direction).
The cable has a fair bit of slack, which is used up with about half of the park brake lever travel. The park brake lever appears to travel to it's mechanical limit. The "pawl" referenced moves freely.
Park brake grabs but does not hold on a reasonable grade.
What am I missing?
What is the trick to adjusting the adjuster?
How do you take slack out of the cable? I can remove the cable at the caliper easily.
TIA!
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...ake&forum_id=1
Something is definitely not correct.
The "star wheel" or adjuster assm. DOES NOT appear to have a lever.
It DOES NOT appear to be adjustable in any way. Turning the star wheel has no effect (either direction).
The cable has a fair bit of slack, which is used up with about half of the park brake lever travel. The park brake lever appears to travel to it's mechanical limit. The "pawl" referenced moves freely.
Park brake grabs but does not hold on a reasonable grade.
What am I missing?
What is the trick to adjusting the adjuster?
How do you take slack out of the cable? I can remove the cable at the caliper easily.
TIA!
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 21,325
Likes: 3,841
From: small town in S.E Pa. PA
St. Jude Donor '03-'04
The tech tip is misleading in that the only thiong adjustable is the slack in the cable, I tried to have the tech tip removed or updated but no one is at home at the tech tip update center.
the star will adjust in and out.. but it takes some effort to see it happen... most ebrakes are out about 45 clicks.
the star will adjust in and out.. but it takes some effort to see it happen... most ebrakes are out about 45 clicks.
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 238
Likes: 0
From: middle tennessee
Originally Posted by Evil-Twin
The tech tip is misleading in that the only thiong adjustable is the slack in the cable, I tried to have the tech tip removed or updated but no one is at home at the tech tip update center.
the star will adjust in and out.. but it takes some effort to see it happen... most ebrakes are out about 45 clicks.
the star will adjust in and out.. but it takes some effort to see it happen... most ebrakes are out about 45 clicks.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,737
Likes: 0
From: Northern VA
Originally Posted by Evil-Twin
The tech tip is misleading in that the only thiong adjustable is the slack in the cable, I tried to have the tech tip removed or updated but no one is at home at the tech tip update center.
the star will adjust in and out.. but it takes some effort to see it happen... most ebrakes are out about 45 clicks.
the star will adjust in and out.. but it takes some effort to see it happen... most ebrakes are out about 45 clicks.
Since I don't yet have a manual, can you tell me how to take slack out of the cable?
I turned the adjuster far more than 45 "clicks" in both directions.
The adjuster simply turns, but does not get longer or shorter.
The guide on the end where the star wheel is has a notch which does not "float", therefore unless you relieve pressure on the shoe end, it is impossible to turn.
I worked on cars for a living for 16+ years. I was a ASE master tech and GM Master tech. I have adjusted brakes on many cars, even previous vettes... I just don't get whats going on.
Anybody have some exploded views or something ?
All help appreciated!!!
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,896
Likes: 26
From: Manchester - Political correctness is tyranny with manners.
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,896
Likes: 26
From: Manchester - Political correctness is tyranny with manners.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,737
Likes: 0
From: Northern VA
Originally Posted by DidntSettle98
Somebody pleeeeze...
Anybody know how thick the lining should be on the park brake "shoe"?
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Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,896
Likes: 26
From: Manchester - Political correctness is tyranny with manners.
Originally Posted by FRCTony
The rachet pawl operates freely...
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,737
Likes: 0
From: Northern VA
I verified the cable movement at the wheel (with the rotor off). While there seems to be more slack than necessary, it looks like the lever is being moved fully.
I cannot seem to get the adjuster to adjust. Star wheel moves, but does not have any effect...
It is freakin' retarded I tell you
I cannot seem to get the adjuster to adjust. Star wheel moves, but does not have any effect...
It is freakin' retarded I tell you
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,896
Likes: 26
From: Manchester - Political correctness is tyranny with manners.
Yeah...the star adjuster on mine was very difficult to adjust. It took many turns just to figure out which direction I was going on each side of the car. I don't know what else I am missing to help you here....
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 21,325
Likes: 3,841
From: small town in S.E Pa. PA
St. Jude Donor '03-'04
The start adjuster works like any shoe brake adjuster in that it has a floating notched end. ( like all shoe brakes, normal maintenance is some white lithium grease under the notch end post to allow it to float)
This is basic mechanics!!!!!!!
the star and its threaded post is one piece, so when you turn it, the post is either moving the shoe diameter "IN" or OUT... the notch at the end of the post does not move, the star and the threaded shaft move under the notch post.
I suspect those of you with problems, need to lubricate the notch post, and also the ratchet part of the lever inside the cabin.
Over the last five years , I have helped literally hundreds of people Fix their Ebrake one time for good... many are still here on this forum...
This isn't rocket science.. is simple basic mechanical aptitude:
Its a freeking screw.. you turn it in or out... turning it out increases the shoe diameter, and moves them in closer proximity to the drum diameter,
This is basic mechanics!!!!!!!
the star and its threaded post is one piece, so when you turn it, the post is either moving the shoe diameter "IN" or OUT... the notch at the end of the post does not move, the star and the threaded shaft move under the notch post.
I suspect those of you with problems, need to lubricate the notch post, and also the ratchet part of the lever inside the cabin.
Over the last five years , I have helped literally hundreds of people Fix their Ebrake one time for good... many are still here on this forum...
This isn't rocket science.. is simple basic mechanical aptitude:
Its a freeking screw.. you turn it in or out... turning it out increases the shoe diameter, and moves them in closer proximity to the drum diameter,
Last edited by Evil-Twin; May 29, 2005 at 12:38 PM.
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,394
Likes: 6
From: Melbourne FL
Originally Posted by Evil-Twin
The start adjuster works like any shoe brake adjuster in that it has a floating notched end. ( like all shoe brakes, normal maintenance is some white lithium grease under the notch end post to allow it to float)
This is basic mechanics!!!!!!!
the star and its threaded post is one piece, so when you turn it, the post is either moving the shoe diameter "IN" or OUT... the notch at the end of the post does not move, the star and the threaded shaft move under the notch post.
I suspect those of you with problems, need to lubricate the notch post, and also the ratchet part of the lever inside the cabin.
Over the last five years , I have helped literally hundreds of people Fix their Ebrake one time for good... many are still here on this forum...
This isn't rocket science.. is simple basic mechanical aptitude:
Its a freeking screw.. you turn it in or out... turning it out increases the shoe diameter, and moves them in closer proximity to the drum diameter,
This is basic mechanics!!!!!!!
the star and its threaded post is one piece, so when you turn it, the post is either moving the shoe diameter "IN" or OUT... the notch at the end of the post does not move, the star and the threaded shaft move under the notch post.
I suspect those of you with problems, need to lubricate the notch post, and also the ratchet part of the lever inside the cabin.
Over the last five years , I have helped literally hundreds of people Fix their Ebrake one time for good... many are still here on this forum...
This isn't rocket science.. is simple basic mechanical aptitude:
Its a freeking screw.. you turn it in or out... turning it out increases the shoe diameter, and moves them in closer proximity to the drum diameter,
He said he is turning the screw but, it's not getting longer. All rocket science aside, it sounds like the adjuster screw is stripped. You'll probably need to remove it from the car and examine it to see if it is really stiripped.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 21,325
Likes: 3,841
From: small town in S.E Pa. PA
St. Jude Donor '03-'04
Heat could have effected both the ratchet and the start adjuster... they need to be cleaned and regreased if they are frozen, then you can properly adjust them..
Any Certified mechanic could trouble shoot this simplest of designs and fix it.
All the retoric about being knowledgable over many years as a certified
ASE certified mechanic can only lead me to the conclusion that you must have woprked at a chevy dealership, and like so many dealerships, and thei mechanics have not clue to this car and its workings.
Like I said, this is basic shoe brakes 101. They teach this to 13 year olds in Vo-Tech.
Any Certified mechanic could trouble shoot this simplest of designs and fix it.
All the retoric about being knowledgable over many years as a certified
ASE certified mechanic can only lead me to the conclusion that you must have woprked at a chevy dealership, and like so many dealerships, and thei mechanics have not clue to this car and its workings.
Like I said, this is basic shoe brakes 101. They teach this to 13 year olds in Vo-Tech.
Racer
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 405
Likes: 0
From: Colorado Springs CO.
This seems to be a problem we all have. I do as well but have not tried to fix it myself. Below is an archieved email I've saved. Perhaps it will help?
There is an adjustment mode in the parking brake assembly but it is not
actuated by pulling on the brake handle while the car is rolling forward or
backwards. It is built in to the adjustment wheel and cable actuator lever
that sticks out of the backing plate. It is supposed to adjust the shoe when
you pull the handle sharply three or four times while the car is stationary.
It will only work if the adjustment screw is very clean and lubricated AND
the shoe to drum clearance is within spec. If it is out of spec so that the
shoe does not hit the drum before the handle is all the way up then there
will be no adjustment. That is why most of us report that we can pull on the
damned handle until tomorrow and the brake never changes. Mine was way too
loose and the screw was almost frozen from dirt and no lube. The shoe wasn't
worn, it just was too loose. After I took the adjustment assembly apart,
cleaned it up and lubed it with waterproof brake lube it worked fine. I
manually adjusted the shoe until I couldn't get the drum onto the shoe. Then
I backed off a few notches until the drum went on, finished up the brake job
and then pulled on the handle to fine tune the adjustment. It worked like it
should and the brake will not let the car move in either direction which it
never did since it was new AND I paid twice to have it adjusted and even
replaced once.
~Bruce
There is an adjustment mode in the parking brake assembly but it is not
actuated by pulling on the brake handle while the car is rolling forward or
backwards. It is built in to the adjustment wheel and cable actuator lever
that sticks out of the backing plate. It is supposed to adjust the shoe when
you pull the handle sharply three or four times while the car is stationary.
It will only work if the adjustment screw is very clean and lubricated AND
the shoe to drum clearance is within spec. If it is out of spec so that the
shoe does not hit the drum before the handle is all the way up then there
will be no adjustment. That is why most of us report that we can pull on the
damned handle until tomorrow and the brake never changes. Mine was way too
loose and the screw was almost frozen from dirt and no lube. The shoe wasn't
worn, it just was too loose. After I took the adjustment assembly apart,
cleaned it up and lubed it with waterproof brake lube it worked fine. I
manually adjusted the shoe until I couldn't get the drum onto the shoe. Then
I backed off a few notches until the drum went on, finished up the brake job
and then pulled on the handle to fine tune the adjustment. It worked like it
should and the brake will not let the car move in either direction which it
never did since it was new AND I paid twice to have it adjusted and even
replaced once.
~Bruce
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,737
Likes: 0
From: Northern VA
Originally Posted by Evil-Twin
Heat could have effected both the ratchet and the start adjuster... they need to be cleaned and regreased if they are frozen, then you can properly adjust them..
Any Certified mechanic could trouble shoot this simplest of designs and fix it.
All the retoric about being knowledgable over many years as a certified
ASE certified mechanic can only lead me to the conclusion that you must have woprked at a chevy dealership, and like so many dealerships, and thei mechanics have not clue to this car and its workings.
Like I said, this is basic shoe brakes 101. They teach this to 13 year olds in Vo-Tech.
Any Certified mechanic could trouble shoot this simplest of designs and fix it.
All the retoric about being knowledgable over many years as a certified
ASE certified mechanic can only lead me to the conclusion that you must have woprked at a chevy dealership, and like so many dealerships, and thei mechanics have not clue to this car and its workings.
Like I said, this is basic shoe brakes 101. They teach this to 13 year olds in Vo-Tech.
I can only assume at this point that the adjuster is junk. It is well lubed and turns freely without effect.
I'm waiting for some manicured smart *** ex engineer to tell me how such a simple component could be faulty.
Has ANYONE here ever heard of the adjuster having to be repalced?
Geesh.
If someone has some exploded views of the rear brake components. I'd appreciate it. Otherwise I'll have to wait until I get a service manual. I might go see if the dealer has an adjuster I can look at on Tuesday (I doubt it).
Racer
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 405
Likes: 0
From: Virginia Beach Virginia
Originally Posted by FRCTony
Heh. Evil, your handle fits you well. Reminds me of a zone rep who once told me you should be able to diagnose any electrical problem in 5 minutes... Send me one of those 13 year olds, I ain't proud.
I can only assume at this point that the adjuster is junk. It is well lubed and turns freely without effect.
I'm waiting for some manicured smart *** ex engineer to tell me how such a simple component could be faulty.
Has ANYONE here ever heard of the adjuster having to be repalced?
Geesh.
If someone has some exploded views of the rear brake components. I'd appreciate it. Otherwise I'll have to wait until I get a service manual. I might go see if the dealer has an adjuster I can look at on Tuesday (I doubt it).
I can only assume at this point that the adjuster is junk. It is well lubed and turns freely without effect.
I'm waiting for some manicured smart *** ex engineer to tell me how such a simple component could be faulty.
Has ANYONE here ever heard of the adjuster having to be repalced?
Geesh.
If someone has some exploded views of the rear brake components. I'd appreciate it. Otherwise I'll have to wait until I get a service manual. I might go see if the dealer has an adjuster I can look at on Tuesday (I doubt it).
and have successfully adjusted my parking brake by following E-T's advice and posts.When you remove the rotor...you can see (no need for a service manual) the e-brake shoe and the star wheel adjuster. Remove the star wheel, which very easily done, clean and lubricate it, replace it on the shoe, turn the wheel to see the brake shoe either expand or not...if it expands you are turning it the correct way. Continue turning the wheel until you can not refit the rotor, then back off a few turns until you can fit the rotor. Do not seat the rotor all they way...leave room to get a screw driver (or whatever tool you are using to turn the wheel) on the wheel, turn it a few more times until you are satisfied with the holding power. That's what I did and the e-brake works fine...thanks again E-T
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,737
Likes: 0
From: Northern VA
Originally Posted by Z06ufgrad2002
All rocket science aside, it sounds like the adjuster screw is stripped. You'll probably need to remove it from the car and examine it to see if it is really stiripped.
Thanks for the input guys!
I will let you all know when I figure it out.
I love this car. But it sure has a lot of crappy design/build issues.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 21,325
Likes: 3,841
From: small town in S.E Pa. PA
St. Jude Donor '03-'04
Part of my critique, is the manner in which I deliver it...setting that aside. It's just a screen character, meant to make people who know me, laugh.
Questions about shoe thickness, hardly apply here... the thickness should never be an issue because there should be no wear. The ebrake is engaged only after the car is stopped...
Even if the shoes were worn thin ( 1/32 ) [Someone applied the ebrake while still moving] that would still hold the car on the most aggressive of hills.
I take personal offense to the "hits" received about the design of this car. This design could NOT be any simpler. AS I've said many many times, If this car was perfect, as so many suggest, you could not afford it. Thank GM engineering design ( WE hit every key point of this design )and GM project management ( for keeping this car "IN Budget". )It's a 100,000 dollar sports car with a 50,000 dollar price tag. IT ain't perfect, thank God.
If this car ( As it is designed ) came off the line in Stuttgart Germany, and had a Porche Badge on it, the price would be 100,000 +.
I am always "UP" for any Private message tutorage. Open forum can get off base real fast.
Questions about shoe thickness, hardly apply here... the thickness should never be an issue because there should be no wear. The ebrake is engaged only after the car is stopped...
Even if the shoes were worn thin ( 1/32 ) [Someone applied the ebrake while still moving] that would still hold the car on the most aggressive of hills.
I take personal offense to the "hits" received about the design of this car. This design could NOT be any simpler. AS I've said many many times, If this car was perfect, as so many suggest, you could not afford it. Thank GM engineering design ( WE hit every key point of this design )and GM project management ( for keeping this car "IN Budget". )It's a 100,000 dollar sports car with a 50,000 dollar price tag. IT ain't perfect, thank God.
If this car ( As it is designed ) came off the line in Stuttgart Germany, and had a Porche Badge on it, the price would be 100,000 +.
I am always "UP" for any Private message tutorage. Open forum can get off base real fast.