Persistent brake problem - very soft pedal.
Drifting
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 1,683
Likes: 23
From: Newark CA
Brakes
I'll jump in since I have the same problem. Mine started after a track day. The first time I hit the brakes on the way home, the pedal went to the floor. I know I overheated the brakes because the lugnut covers on the front wheels were melted. I've installed new front rotors and pads and stainless lines. Bled the master and the calipers several times. The car has been to three shops, two very good ones. They all think the pedal firmness is okay. I don't like my foor hitting the gas pedal on hard braking, and I know this is not how the car was before the track day. Wish I had a solution, but I don't.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 8,762
Likes: 2
From: Murphy TX
joe, I know EXACTLY how you feel. My scenario is exactly the same with regard to this all starting after one overheated track day. I've bled 'til I'm blue in the face. I now have Wilwood 6-pot fronts and stainless all around. I've had places check it out also and say "Oh this feels normal". Well, if it's normal, I don't like it. Sh*t my jeep has firmer pedal feedback with front disks/rear drums.
I'm taking it to LG tomorrow, I'll see what they say (hell Lou races corvettes I have to think he has a good idea on pedal feel/modulation and heel/toe). If it is truly "normal" then to be honest I'm going to consider an aftermarket master. Maybe it is normal for C5s to have the pedal below the gas under max braking but that's not the way I want it.
I have no problem paying some $$$ to get it good and high and firm. My problem is I don't want to just keep throwing $$ at it wondering if something's going to help. If I knew a DRM master would change this I'd spend the $600 tomorrow and be done with it. It would amount to less money in the long run that's for sure.
I'm taking it to LG tomorrow, I'll see what they say (hell Lou races corvettes I have to think he has a good idea on pedal feel/modulation and heel/toe). If it is truly "normal" then to be honest I'm going to consider an aftermarket master. Maybe it is normal for C5s to have the pedal below the gas under max braking but that's not the way I want it.
I have no problem paying some $$$ to get it good and high and firm. My problem is I don't want to just keep throwing $$ at it wondering if something's going to help. If I knew a DRM master would change this I'd spend the $600 tomorrow and be done with it. It would amount to less money in the long run that's for sure.
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 4,969
Likes: 2
From: Lake Worth FL
St. Jude Donor '03-'05-'06 & '12
Another trick I did that helped is I purchased some "bling" Sparco pedal covers, bought longer screws and doubled them up on the brake pedal. This brings it up about 1/2" higher and so far has been effective. Before that I kept hitting the gas pedal at the track under threshold braking. 
Thread Starter
Resident moron
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 4,746
Likes: 20
From: Assachusetts
Originally Posted by dmtnt
Another trick I did that helped is I purchased some "bling" Sparco pedal covers, bought longer screws and doubled them up on the brake pedal. This brings it up about 1/2" higher and so far has been effective. Before that I kept hitting the gas pedal at the track under threshold braking.
In my case at least, it is much worse than that. Stopping the car from 30mph on the street for a red light still makes me hit the gas/brake together unless I stop really gently. THAT'S how bad it is.
Dope
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 8,762
Likes: 2
From: Murphy TX
Well guys - It's been a bit so I'll update on my situation.
Lou's kid drove the car, said it felt fine.
I drove it this weekend at TWS and the braking was amazing. The pedal is still softer than I would prefer, but I do think it is normal. In my case at least, I think there's just too much boost assist for my taste. Reason I say this is for me
end of straight - high rpm no throttle - pedal soft
rev for downshift - high rpm open throttle - pedal noticably stiffened.
This to me seems vacuum related, high rpm throttle closed would be high vacuum, open throttle would lower the vacuum, so it makes sense to me.
I got so many cars under braking it was making me giddy. I ran race pads (Wilwood H in front J in rear) and it was freaking amazing.
Anyway, I think in my case it's normal, and just a less than ideal feel.
Dope, any update on your case?
Lou's kid drove the car, said it felt fine.
I drove it this weekend at TWS and the braking was amazing. The pedal is still softer than I would prefer, but I do think it is normal. In my case at least, I think there's just too much boost assist for my taste. Reason I say this is for me
end of straight - high rpm no throttle - pedal soft
rev for downshift - high rpm open throttle - pedal noticably stiffened.
This to me seems vacuum related, high rpm throttle closed would be high vacuum, open throttle would lower the vacuum, so it makes sense to me.
I got so many cars under braking it was making me giddy. I ran race pads (Wilwood H in front J in rear) and it was freaking amazing.
Anyway, I think in my case it's normal, and just a less than ideal feel.
Dope, any update on your case?
Thread Starter
Resident moron
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 4,746
Likes: 20
From: Assachusetts
Curious, are you running stainless lines? I wonder if that would improve the feel.
Sounds like your 'problem' (if there is actually a problem and not a design issue) would probably be the booster like you say. I don't think there's any other option than stock unfortunately.
No update, I had my new master next day'd on Wednesday and it didn't arrive for the weekend. I'm glad I spent that $22 on overnight shipping!
I may try to throw it in during the week. Depends on how the weather and my motivation is.
Dope
Sounds like your 'problem' (if there is actually a problem and not a design issue) would probably be the booster like you say. I don't think there's any other option than stock unfortunately.
No update, I had my new master next day'd on Wednesday and it didn't arrive for the weekend. I'm glad I spent that $22 on overnight shipping!
I may try to throw it in during the week. Depends on how the weather and my motivation is.
Dope
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 8,762
Likes: 2
From: Murphy TX
Dope,
I've got stainless all around with similar issue. I've gotten mixed inputs about the Wilwood calipers I'm running - some say volume is the same some say slighter larger which will lower the pedal *a bit* so that may confound my issue.
I'm leaning toward an over boosted pedal after this weekend. I'm still very curious to hear a resolution to your problem though.
I've got stainless all around with similar issue. I've gotten mixed inputs about the Wilwood calipers I'm running - some say volume is the same some say slighter larger which will lower the pedal *a bit* so that may confound my issue.
I'm leaning toward an over boosted pedal after this weekend. I'm still very curious to hear a resolution to your problem though.
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Thread Starter
Resident moron
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 4,746
Likes: 20
From: Assachusetts
I will be sure to post an update as it happens.
I have to say, in my past 3 cars (2000 Camaro SS, 98 Camaro SS, 99 FRC), they all have pretty inconsistent pedal feel. The 2000 was the worst, it was an automatic and sometimes I could have a really low/soft pedal and sometimes it would be hard as a rock. Depended on RPM a lot it seemed.
*shrug*
Dope
I have to say, in my past 3 cars (2000 Camaro SS, 98 Camaro SS, 99 FRC), they all have pretty inconsistent pedal feel. The 2000 was the worst, it was an automatic and sometimes I could have a really low/soft pedal and sometimes it would be hard as a rock. Depended on RPM a lot it seemed.
*shrug*
Dope
Drifting
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 1,683
Likes: 23
From: Newark CA
Brakes
More strangeness. Yesterday I drove to Sears Point to watch the races. On the way home, I noticed the brake pedal was firmer than it was on the way up. This was in stop-and-go traffic just outside the track. A couple more stops later, the pedal still felt better. So I really wasn't going nuts about it, with every brake shop telling me there was nothing wrong. I thought about it some more today, and as soon as I got home, I took the car for a spin and did several moderate and several easy stops. The pedal is definitely back to normal. The only times my foot touched the throttle pedal were when I slammed the pedal hard to a full stop, and even then, I had to have my foot cranked over a bit. I have no idea what changed after 2 1/2 years. I can only guess that maybe some contamination got dislodged somewhere in the system. Wish I had an answer.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 8,762
Likes: 2
From: Murphy TX
[Twighlight zone music playing]
Joe, you're going to think I'm making this up...
I beat the heck out of my car on the track all weekend, including HEAVY braking all weekend, some ABS, and AH kicked in once or twice - got home sunday night.
Car sat all night sunday and all day monday. Got in it this morning and the pedal felt FIRM. It was REALLY nice. If anything, I had expected to have to do a slight bleed after the weekend.
I'm very curious about this. Maybe old crappy fluid got pushed out of the AH? or the ABS? I can't think of anything else but it was noticably firmer. I'm starting to think I'm going nuts
Oh well.
I have a spare master cylinder in my study now if anyone needs one...
Joe, you're going to think I'm making this up...
I beat the heck out of my car on the track all weekend, including HEAVY braking all weekend, some ABS, and AH kicked in once or twice - got home sunday night.
Car sat all night sunday and all day monday. Got in it this morning and the pedal felt FIRM. It was REALLY nice. If anything, I had expected to have to do a slight bleed after the weekend.
I'm very curious about this. Maybe old crappy fluid got pushed out of the AH? or the ABS? I can't think of anything else but it was noticably firmer.
I'm starting to think I'm going nuts Oh well.
I have a spare master cylinder in my study now if anyone needs one...
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,164
Likes: 1
Have the same problem, when I need to stop quickly I have found that manually pumping the brakes helps the car from going into ABS mode. I will brake to about 3/4 pedal travel, release, and brake again, continuing till the car comes to a stop. I have found that I stop faster that way...My brakes work normally, but lets say I am traveling at highspeed and need to brake down quickly, I will slam on the brakes and when they fade down, I release and pump them. It seems to help...one time I was at 150 and needed to slow down quickly to half that, and I remember when I pushed down on the pedal I realized the car was not slowing fast enough and the brakes were fading slightly, but I started to pump them and the car miraculously slowed down even quicker than I needed...phew!! I guess it allows the brakes to cool better that way. I will be installing a Master Cylinder soon too.
